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  #1  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:47 AM
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Default Can you get a .38 special cylinder for a 686?

My range doesn't allow the use of magnums due to the backstop and shooting the shorter shell specials from the magnum leaves a serious crud ring in the cylinders that's near impossible to clean. (And yeah, I've tried the oversized brush on a drill, and flared .357 case as a scraper.... still way too hard to remove.)

Is there a .38 special cylinder that S&W makes that I can swap in and out on my 686?
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:51 AM
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No, I don't think that S & W makes a specialized .38 cylinder for a 686.

I'm having a little problem understanding why removing the carbon left over from .38s in your 686 is such a big deal. How often do you clean? I shoot .38s from my Models 27 and 19 all of the time without any carbon buildup problems. I do clean after every trip to the range. I brush my chambers with a .40 cal. brush (sometimes I use a .45 cal brush if I think I need a bit extra friction). Usually a 1/2 dozen passes will break all of the carbon free.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:02 AM
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While there were a few (CONRAIL & export) .38 686s made. Even if a cylinder was still available, it would be $$$ to have it fitted properly.
As suggested, proper cleaning will eliminate the carbon ring issue. When (infrequently) I encounter them, an overnight soaking with Kroil followed by the aforementioned .40 cal brushing does the trick.
If you reload, its easy to assemble mild range/target loads (even full wadcutters) in .357 cases, thus eliminating the issue altogether
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:04 AM
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I haven't had the OP's problem, but I've seen some really dirty
powder used in some cheap 38's and of course in reloads. When I
get bigger, I may want to get a .357. Sure hate to go thru that.
TACC1
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:12 AM
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I clean after every range trip, which is about 125 rounds. At this point, the crud ring feels like it is just starting to bind .357 cases. I have a slightly flared empty .357 case that I use as a scraper - it fits snugly when the cylinder is very clean. After 125 rounds, I'm wrestling with it once it hits the crud ring.

I use a .40 or .45 brass brush and take several passes with the crude ring pre-soaked with Hoppes 9 or Ballistol and even use a drill sometimes.... it still feels like it's being removed a molecule at time.

Perhaps I'm trying to get it too clean (where you can see the cylinder wall again), but I just have this fear that if I leave it, it will continue to build/grow and effectively petrify in there.

Everything else on the gun cleans up fine... it's just that damn 1/4 inch between the .357 & .38 case size that's driving me nuts.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reppans View Post
Everything else on the gun cleans up fine... it's just that damn 1/4 inch between the .357 & .38 case size that's driving me nuts.
Actually its only 1/10". I guess that's why everyone, including me, is wondering why you're having such a cleaning issue.
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:59 AM
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AFTER your usual cleaning process, in a dry cylinder I wrap
Birchwood Casey Lead remover cloth on a 32 cal. brush and go to town.
It effectively polishes the chamber and removes the residue.

A.F.
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Old 09-29-2011, 06:35 AM
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never encountered any cylinder crud that was "too much" work to clean. It's actually a simple process with a minimum of fuss. Changing out a cylinder, is not the answer!
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:20 AM
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There is a very recent run of .38 Special model 686s that were on auction...I'd call the factory and see if they have a spare cylinder available if that is the route you want to take. It may take some minor fitting.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:41 AM
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I'm sure I am not the only one here that has shot tens of thousands of .38 Spl. cartridges through my .357 Mag. revolvers without problems.

If the chambers are leading up to the point that .357s are hard to insert, use a Lew's Lead Remover. I use it occasionally but it really isn't necessary. Normally using a bronze brush for 10+ swipes will do the job.

Good luck.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:28 AM
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I too am baffled by the claim that the crud is at all hard to clean. I use a Brownell's chamber brush, which is a slightly oversize stainless brush for revolver cylinder chambers only. One push thru and the chamber is spotless. I have them in both .38/.357 and .44/.45. I actually carry them in my range bag and do it right at the range when I'm done shooting. It takes all of about 15 seconds to zip thru all six holes, and you're done.

They don't make them for .22 revolvers, so I just use a .243 rifle brush on the K22 chambers.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:39 AM
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If you're willing to have a 38 Spl dedicated gun why not just dedicate a .357 cylindered gun to 38 Spl? There's no effective difference.

You'll still get gunk in it or not and will still clean it or not the same way.

There's nothing magical about the 38 Spl only cylinder other than you won't shoot .357s in it. So don't shoot .357s in your 686 and you have the same end result.
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:51 AM
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Here are a couple of cleaning tips that I probably should have mentioned in replying to the OP.

1. Brush the chambers with a dry brush before using any solvent. The brush actually generates more friction without solvent (especially if it is oversized). I find that brushing alone will usually take out the carbon ring.

2. If that doesn't work, run a swab down the chambers that has been smeared with some J & B bore paste. This is a mildly abrasive compound that isn't hard enough to erode steel but that is sufficienty coarse to eat through carbon. You can buy it online from Brownell's. After you've done that, then repeat brushing with the paste residue still in the chambers. Then swab with solvent soaked patches. You'll be amazed at what comes out! The first 2-3 patches will be totally black.

I find that dry brushing alone will work 99% of the time.
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:52 AM
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Call S&W and ask them first hand. I would think the custom shop could fit you a cylinder. $$$. Or just buy a .38.
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:08 PM
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Default 357 cart crud cutter

I bet the .357 case you are cleaning with, is also "dull". Check to see if you need to "sharpen" or, put a slight "edge". on the case. I would also drill out the primer for a wood screw into a handle. Spray it gold and send me the patent money.
Mike
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2011, 12:51 PM
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Lots of good ideas folks, thanks.

Allen-frame - I've tried the Birchwood Casey Lead Clean Cloths, they do work but still pretty slowly.

Palmetto SS - I've seen the Brownells lead remover video before and may try that as an option next.

Patrick L - Also heard about the SS brush, but I'm little worried about scratching.... everyone always seem to recommend using only brass in the bore (definitely) and cylinders (probably less important though).

Stevieboy - I haven't tried the dry brush yet, but it makes sense. Most of the other gunk in the gun, that comes out pretty normally, always seems to do well with the pre-soak. Since this crud ring is more cement like, perhaps I'm just reducing the effectiveness of the brass brush by effectively lubricating it first.

gr7070 & Titegroups - I've considered just shooting .38s only, or getting a second .38 gun, but I like occasionally shooting .357s at another range, and I do like the weight of the full underlug on the 686, not to mention trying to save a few bucks by staying with one gun. But here's another option you guys have me thinking about - just get another matching .357 cylinder and dedicate one for .38s (assume it wouldn't need to be "fitted"?). Swapping cylinders would seem to be a lot easier on the rare occasions I do shoot .357s, than trying to clean the special crud ring out after every range trip.

tomuchiron - exactly right.... I just bought a small sharpening bit for my dremel that'll fit inside the .357 case, and yes, I have already popped the primer and insert a long screw & bolt to give me something to hold onto . I'm now looking for a good cone-shaped object to give the perfect flare on the casing too. One annoying thing I've notice, not all my cylinders are exactly the same size. The flared casing sticks on certain cylinders, while it's loose on others, even bone clean..... I'm going to need a couple different sized scapers.

Perhaps not surprisingly, I find that the "special" crud ring problem tends to bother the noobs (that's me ) more than the veterans.... it seems to drive every noob at my range crazy, although most of the veterans I know are mostly avoiding the whole problem since they are hand loading lighter loads in .357 cases . I may get to re-loading at some point, but I'm not there quite yet.

Anyways, thanks for the comments and all the good suggestions.... half this is probably me just being an anal noob .

Last edited by reppans; 09-29-2011 at 12:53 PM.
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  #17  
Old 09-29-2011, 01:23 PM
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Default A possible solution

Clymer offers a deleading reamer for cylinders in their catalog which might suit your needs, but be careful - it IS a cutting tool, if you are overly aggressive.

http://www.clymertool.com/catalogue/...logueVol11.pdf

It's on Page 25
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:37 PM
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You may wish to try this and its cheap.

Go to the store and buy the copper "Chore Boy" pads or any other copper, woven cleaning pads.

Take a .38 caliber brush and pull strands from the copper pad and wrap them around the .38 brush until you have a tight fit in the cylinder.

Scrub. Works exceptionally well, and better than a Lewis Lead Remover. Especially on the bore.

I use the Lewis on the bore if it is heavily leaded but the Lewis does not get the lead that lies in the land corners. That's where the Chore Boy excels.

The Lewis is best for removing lead buildup in the forcing cone of the barrel, a revolver cleaning necessity I think.

Good luck.

Or buy a nice M64 (heavy barrel) in .38 Special and shoot it at the range. There's several of them on the market right now. Police buybacks I think.

The price of the M64 might rival the price of a .38 Special cylinder fit.
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:42 PM
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Seems like much adieu about nothing to me. I have never had a problem and have fired hundreds of thousands of .38 SPL in .357's of many types without a problem. I run a .40 bore brush through the cylinder and whatever was in the cylinder is now gone.
I find it to be no big deal at all.
Randy
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Old 09-29-2011, 01:50 PM
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Ah yes, the last option I've read about before is Chore Boy wrapped around a brush, that's definitely worth a try.... and with a slow speed drill.

I personally do not have the guts to put a stainless steel brush into my gun, so I think a cutting tool not an option for me.

Thank you again, folks.... great ideas.
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  #21  
Old 09-29-2011, 02:22 PM
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Buying a .38 cylinder, if you can even find one, and having it fit would cost about the same as picking up a nice used M10 or M64. Then you would have two guns.

I have been shooting .38s in .357s for more than 20 years. Only once have I had any issue getting the cylinder clean. That was on a 40 year old Colt that I am sure had nver been cleaned of this ring. I doubt it had ever fired even one round of .357 ammo before I purchased it. Even then It only took about 30-45 minutes of scrubbing with Hoppes and a .40 cal bronze brush.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:55 PM
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I use .357 brass for my target loads.
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Old 09-29-2011, 02:59 PM
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Pick up a nice used model 15 or a model 67. End of problem.

Frank
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Old 09-29-2011, 03:14 PM
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Instead of giving the OP a hard time, I'm going to agree with him. On those occasions when forced to shoot 38s in a 357 I had a heck of a time getting the chambers completely clean. I have adopted the policy of only shooting 38s in 38 Special revolvers and 357s in Magnum revolvers. I realize most disagree but I understand where the OP is coming from. My suggestion is a dedicated 38 Special revolver. YMMV!

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Old 09-29-2011, 04:53 PM
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I don't know that I have ever removed all the lead/stains at one cleaning. I start with a chore boy or lewis lead remover, then use a paste. Eventually it works.

I know you've said you want to keep the 686, but this might be a "good" reason to look at an N frame 38/44.....
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:09 PM
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buy another .357 cylinder, stamp/mark/etch the back of it it some identyifying capacity, then and only shoot .38's in it (and don't worry about the carbon)

Or, chuck up a bronze chamber brush in your drill, I would avoid stainless as well.
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:52 PM
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You can easily find 686 cylinders for sale on an auction site.

If you want a spare.
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:56 PM
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The most accuaret revolver in my extensive group in 38 Spewcial is a pre WWII 357 registered magnum. It was used by a nbullseye pistol shooter after it's original purchase ad i do not encounter any difficulty cleaning up the residue from firing 38 Special cases in 357 Mag cchambers. Pwerhaps a bit more elbow grease and a hgood dose of Hoppes #9 is in order.
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:35 PM
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Well, I know I'm not totally crazy. The latest issue of American Rifleman (Oct. '11, if you're an NRA member) discusses the problem on page 52 in an article about reloading .38s and .357s. The other thing I've read, and it made sense to me, was that if the crud ring is thick enough to cause .357s to bind, it could adversely affect the crimp on a .357 bullet potentially raising pressures to dangerous levels.

As I mention in my post #16, and others have recommended above, what sounds like the best solution if I really don't want to deal with the additional cleaning hassles, might be to go for another .357 cylinder and dedicate one for .38s and the other for .357s. Towards this end, I gave S&W and quick call and understand that the parts for a spare cylinder/rod and labor to cut the ratchet timed to my gun, would run around $200 or so. That certainly sounds a lot better to me than getting another gun.

I'll still try some of the other recommended cleaning routines, and even maybe just let that damn crud ring go with only normal cleaning. Perhaps it never really gets a chance to accumulate to a dangerous level, consider how many people seem to have no issues with it.

Thanks again for the comments folks... I think I'm done here.
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Old 09-29-2011, 11:57 PM
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reppans may be done here but I would like to add that the idea of purchasing another 686 cylinder and dedicating it to .38 Special only sounds like a good fix as well.

Out here in the "West" I can access five different gun ranges (one indoor) and lots of open "gubmint" land to shoot on.

Back east folks may not be so lucky and it sounds like reppans is very restricted as to where he can shoot and as to what.

Hence he has a unique challenge.
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:59 AM
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I believe Numrich's still has 7 shot titanium 242 cylinders available. You could get one of those and have it fitted to your 686.
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:56 PM
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Has anybody swapped a 242 cylinder into the 686? how much work has been done aside from the extractor-hand fitting?
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
I believe Numrich's still has 7 shot titanium 242 cylinders available. You could get one of those and have it fitted to your 686.
What are the work needed on this, aside from the extractor-hand fitting?
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Old 01-07-2012, 09:53 PM
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3.3 grains of Bullseye under a 148 hbwc in .357 mag brass - problem solved. Or you could get a brand new 67, which is basically a 64 with 686 sights.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:03 PM
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I have had very good luck with SLIP 2000 for all my cleaning purposes. Given it a try - dissolves powder and crud, non-toxic.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:18 AM
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Over the last 10 years I have shot many thousands of 130 grain jacketed .38 special factory ammo. As you are purchasing new and not reloading yet and you did not say which ammo you were using, here is my experience. Winchester 130 grain leaves a rock hard ring that is difficult to remove, Remington also leaves a hard ring, but to easier to clean than the Winchester. Federal, on the other hand, leaves very little residue and is easy to clean, just a few passes with a brush. Perhaps a change in ammunition will make cleaning less frustrating. Good luck.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebolbero View Post
What are the work needed on this, aside from the extractor-hand fitting?
Setting the barrel-cylinder gap, if needed.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nightowl View Post
Federal, on the other hand, leaves very little residue and is easy to clean, just a few passes with a brush. Perhaps a change in ammunition will make cleaning less frustrating. Good luck.
I've shot thousands of Federal/American Eagle through my two .357 magnum guns. I, too, have no issue whatsoever. They're also the cheapest 38s I can find.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:38 PM
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Default Rough chambers?

Compare your 686 with another revolver that does not have cleaning issues.
You might have rough chambers thats causing your misery.
There are various ways to polish the chamber to make your life easier.
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