Model 64 2” abnormality

[demkofour]

I was lucky enough recently to be offered a 2” 64 from a recently retired cop friend… the gun is pristine and literally unfired since purchased in 1988 or so by the officer. No box or papers, but as new condition RB Magnas and a sweet DA/SA trigger!
Incredibly though, is that the gun should never have left the QC department in its condition!

[Hapworth]

J frame magnas?

[ImDrRichard]

A fantastic example. A retired friend has one in blue. Just something about a K-Frame!

[murphydog]

This one was made after the switch to "universal fit" Magna stocks, but this one was not in the correct universe.

You'll probably find a set of the next earlier style of K frame RB stocks (non-diamond, larger checkered area) to be a better fit.

[ms]

Looks like its been polished and has incorrect or modified grips.

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by Hapworth

J frame magnas?

Haha! Excellent thought, but nope. K Frame Magnas for sure. Check the photo of the front strap- the strain screw, usually relatively flush, sits literally in a pocket…

I’ve tried a few aftermarket grips as well as factory grips and none fit flush. RB Pachmayr Grippers don’t come close to fitting.

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by ms

Looks like its been polished and has incorrect or modified grips.

Knowing the original and only owner, I can say for sure this gun is in the condition it was shipped in. I’m not even sure my friend even put any rounds down range..

[Hapworth]

Originally Posted by demkofour

Haha! Excellent thought, but nope. K Frame Magnas for sure. Check the photo of the front strap- the strain screw, usually relatively flush, sits literally in a pocket…

I’ve tried a few aftermarket grips as well as factory grips and none fit flush. RB Pachmayr Grippers don’t come close to fitting.

Interesting -- someone didn't finish grinding to spec?

What're you gonna do?

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by Hapworth

Interesting -- someone didn't finish grinding to spec?

What're you gonna do?

I’m thinking you hit the nail on the head!

My two choices are: to keep it as is (a factory mixup/quirk/momentary lapse of reason or; contact S&W CS and see if they are willing to have a look and offer a solution…

[Old cop]

When we replaced our aging Model 15 & Model 10 snubs w/new stainless Model 64 four inch & snubs for detectives & commanders, many needed repair by the range staff before they could be issued. Some were so out of speck they had to be returned to the factory. Just a few of us insisted on qualifying w/the new weapons before just carrying them on the street.

[wrangler5]

Originally Posted by Hapworth

Interesting -- someone didn't finish grinding to spec?

Hard to believe ALL of the frames came out of the forge that much oversize and would have to be ground down that much. Can there really be that much variation in the size of a raw frame?

[wproct]

I bought my 64-2 about 1 1/2 years ago and it had a set of Pachmyer grips on it. I had a set of Hogue wood monogrips to put on it and they fit great.

[heeter3]

demkofour would it be worth it for you to have custom grips made for it?

[PatriotX]

Reverse Jovino?

N frame grip area on a K-frame gun?

Seriously, that’s odd. I wonder what N frame Magnas would look like.

[kaaskop49]

Worth a call plus the above pix, but I don't know you'd want to risk sending it back and maybe having them demil/destroy it and offer you a gun of modern mfg. I don't think there is a modern or close equivalent, certainly not of 1980s quality, despite the flawed frame.

I've had so-so luck with Smith stainless guns: a 2"64 with the action inoperable (1976-7), a snub 66 with the entire rear sight fixture laying separate in the box ('82), and a 4" 65 with a bulged bbl ('78). All K-frames and all NIB.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

[75Vette]

Time to break out the grinder!!!

[twodog max]

I would leave it just like it is.

[GerSan69]

Worth a call to them, at least. If you don't like what they say, at least you tried. Who knows, they may just say "Ooops!" and send you a label. I seriously doubt that they would "confiscate" it since your problem is nothing to do with safety, you're just trying to get the panels to fit.
The alternative to me in my OCD view is I'd either grind it myself or have a gunsmith that does stock work do it. I couldn't stand having it look like that!!!

[krsmith58]

unacceptable, i think you should sell it, cheap, to me. i would do
that for you to ease your mind. thanks, kenny

[pmosley]

Kind of cool - like a built in Tyler grip adapter.....

[Greyman50]

Nice oversized pair of bigmtnmans elk grips would be perfect……just a suggestion.

[ACORN]

Gee! And they say “They don’t make ‘em like they used to”

[Protocall_Design]

Originally Posted by ACORN

Gee! And they say “They don’t make ‘em like they used to”

And probably never did...

[UncleEd]

How does it feel in the
hand and handle during
shooting if you get to
that. Might like the
beefier frame. It's just
near N-frame size.

Call it your N'n'K.

[CH4]

Congrats!
That's some sweet heat!
Maybe a set of Pach grippers have enough room to fit the chubby grip frame.

[ladder13]

Jim, I like it, it looks uniquely stylish. But you may need a padded glove.

[wproct]

Personally, I would be shopping for some larger grips that would fit or could be made to fit the revolver better rather than doing any grinding on the frame.

[demkofour]

I found a set of N Frame Magnas and tried them on the 64 for comparison. The only area the N Magnas line up is at and along the butt.

[steelslaver]

You could probably work with a custom maker. Have him sent yo a set of blanks, install and then trace grip frame outline with a pencil

[demkofour]

I know there are some gunsmiths out there that still do Square Butt to Round Butt conversions.
With that in mind, can anyone here make a recommendation on who to contact? I tried Clark Custom Guns and they no longer provide such work.

[shamuscull]

I have used APW Cogan for previous work with excellent results. Fairly quick turnaround time.

[Alk8944]

Originally Posted by demkofour

I was lucky enough recently to be offered a 2” 64 from a recently retired cop friend… the gun is pristine and literally unfired since purchased in 1988 or so by the officer. No box or papers, but as new condition RB Magnas and a sweet DA/SA trigger!
Incredibly though, is that the gun should never have left the QC department in its condition!

From the alpha-numeric SN that gun was made well after S&W closed it's "Stock Job" in the 1970s and started using stocks from various commercial suppliers. Those are not original to the gun, therefore there is no QC issue with S&W. Prior owner replaced the original stocks with what is on the gun now. If there is another issue you refer to it isn't apparent from the photos.

[Baxter6551]

If the gun is otherwise fine and shoots good, I personally would leave as is and have custom stocks made for it. I WOULD NOT send it back to S&W.

[ISCS Yoda]

Here's a weird M64!

Okay, okay, it's been seriously customized!



I like the OP's gin - I'd leave it alone/

[murphydog]

Originally Posted by demkofour

I know there are some gunsmiths out there that still do Square Butt to Round Butt conversions.
With that in mind, can anyone here make a recommendation on who to contact? I tried Clark Custom Guns and they no longer provide such work.

Maybe I am missing something...

You have a RB model 64 but you are asking about a SB to RB conversion from a gunsmith. Do you mean a RB to SB conversion, and if so wouldn't a set of stocks fix that?

[demkofour]

Originally Posted by Alk8944

From the alpha-numeric SN that gun was made well after S&W closed it's "Stock Job" in the 1970s and started using stocks from various commercial suppliers. Those are not original to the gun, therefore there is no QC issue with S&W. Prior owner replaced the original stocks with what is on the gun now. If there is another issue you refer to it isn't apparent from the photos.

As stated earlier, I think, the gun left the factory and arrived at Charles Greenblatt on Long Island as is. The Magnas that are on the pistol are original to that gun, and fit my other RB K Frames perfectly. Essentially, the frame was not properly finished (ground down?), the gun was shipped and frankly no one after that noticed or cared. The first picture in post #28 shows how deep the strain screw sits in the frame. The screw head is usually pretty well flush with the front strap, not “countersunk” as it really is…

I’m looking to simply have the butt frame recontoured, front and back, to proper K RB size so that it looks and handles as designed.

[chief38]

I sort of doubt that was done purposely - more than likely a Factory oops!

BEFORE DOING ANYTHING AT ALL....... Make SURE that it isn't just this particular set of grips!!!!! Try a bunch of other RB K Frame Magnas before doing anything. You don't want to screw up a perfectly good gun because of a weird set of grips. If it is not the grips and in fact the grips frame is oversized, see below.

The good new is that because it is stainless steel it can easily be corrected and brought down to spec. without sending off for a re-finishing. A file, progressively finer sandpapers and Scotchbrite pads is all you would need. Basic metal working skill is all that is required and I would strongly suggest doing the job with hand tools rather than an electric tool like a Dremel. Motorized tools take too much off too fast and you just can't put metal back. Take you time, proceed slowly and carefully and it should turn out just like it never happened - lol.

I would personally correct it rather than leaving it as is because you will always have problems with grips and might actually affect shooting it.

[wproct]

I'm sure that the best answer is to have the frame re-profiled to the correct dimensions. However, I have fairly large hands and in my mind if a set of grips could be custom made to fit the existing frame profile, they could be very comfortable to my hand.

demkofour does not appear to be in a big hurry to tackle this project, and I think taking one's time and consideration before tearing into it is a good thing.

[CH4]

I agree with having the grips fit to the gun instead of the gun fit to the grips.

[LoboGunLeather]

Originally Posted by Old cop

When we replaced our aging Model 15 & Model 10 snubs w/new stainless Model 64 four inch & snubs for detectives & commanders, many needed repair by the range staff before they could be issued. Some were so out of speck they had to be returned to the factory. Just a few of us insisted on qualifying w/the new weapons before just carrying them on the street.

There was a period of several years duration (most of the 1970s) when Smith & Wesson had considerable problems with quality control. Revolvers that would not function double-action right out of the box. Chambers that would not accept a round of ammunition (apparently never finish-reamed). Fixed sight handguns that would not shoot within a foot or two of point of aim. Adjustable sight handguns that could not be adjusted to get shots on paper at 50 feet. Internal parts breaking during the first use or two.

Lots of guns went back to the mother ship, usually just replaced with another. My department at the time had two S&W-trained armorers who could fix many things, but quite a few still ended up going back to S&W.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by CH4

I agree with having the grips fit to the gun instead of the gun fit to the grips.

That would of course mean that the owner would have to have a custom set of grips made - big bucks. In order for a grip maker to do that he would need the gun - involves packing it up - shipping it both ways - big bucks!

If he were to use larger N Frame grips and downsize them, they would never come out just right! He would have to make a custom set from scratch.

Instead of spending literally hundreds, the way to go IMHO is to correct the grip frame in this case. It would take a short amount of time, require no special tooling, minimal skill and then the owner could have his choice of ANY K Frame grips. That said, it's his and he can do whatever he likes.

[LoboGunLeather]

Thinking about this apparent anomaly, it occurs to me that such an unusual example of factory error/oversight might be very interesting to collectors. Kind of like the mint errors that get into circulation and jump in value.

Might be worth considering.

[notsofast]

Originally Posted by CH4

I agree with having the grips fit to the gun instead of the gun fit to the grips.

Yep, I wouldn’t cut the frame

[steelslaver]

The way to make the frame fit normal grips is to put a set on then scribe around the outside with a carbide tipped scribe. I would use a large belt grinder to take the frame close to the scribe lines with a flat platen then go to a slack belt at about 400 grit to finish. The slack bet will leave the surfaces just slightly rounded.

[oink]

Yeah, I'd sell it to somebody that thinks its worth more than a normal one, then buy a normal one.

[dsf]

FWIW I'd get N frame round butt and slim down the rear to match the frame contour, BK grip adapter up front will cover the off fitting up front.

IMG_0284.jpg

N frame Thai types, look pretty good. I think there's enough wood back there to take down OK.

[Doug M.]

If you are serious about correcting this error, I would contact BMCM through the forum. He did wonderful job of converting my M66 BS 4" to a round butt.

[NCBeagle]

You’ve added a few interesting things to your collection in the last couple weeks.

I would probably leave this one “as is.” Interesting conversation piece.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[wproct]

Hope ya let us know which way you go on this one.

[SnidelyWhiplash]

When I was a LEO and instructor and armorer for my agency...we received a batch of new Model 64 revolvers (this was back in the late '80s). Another instructor and I took them to the range for test and targeting and one kept missing the target altogether or key holing. We checked it and it had no rifling in the barrel...it was a smoothbore!

When we got back to the office I called S&W...the contact rep said "Send that back to us...I want to show it to people!" He said it had to have gone through twelve or thirteen different sets of hands and to not have that found was almost unimaginable. We sent the revolver back and it was returned within a week with a proper barrel.