Hello everyone,

I just recently purchased and picked up my brand new 686 SSR. During my first cleaning and thorough inspection I noticed a few major finish problems. First underneath the forcing cone there is a huge gouge in the frame. Second there is a small chip out of the side of the forcing cone. Third there are a few small chips underneath the yoke(?) thats part of the frame.

I've contacted Smith and Wesson and they've asked that I send it back to them for repair.

Then I take this gun to the range to see how it shoots and I get 83% fail to fire rate with Hornady's critical defense 38 special + P loads. I then get a few fail to fire with the Hornady's critical defense 357 magnum loads. After this I shoot a box of Fiocchi 357 magnum and get 6% fail to fire rate. I then shoot the Winchester white box of 357 magnum HJHP and they all fire 100%.

After I get the gun home, I can hear and feel the trigger and the hammer have a metal grinding sound. Maybe I should have disassembled this gun prior to shooting? I've had no problem with my new 617 the way I use it?


I do not have any confidence in this gun right now and am curious how others on this forum would handle this gun. I am not confident in this firearm as my self defense gun with any ammo. Even with the Winchester, I don't feel confident.

I really don't want this gun to go under the knife, modified and then given back to me like nothing has happened.

What would you do in this situation???

Thanks,

Ryan

I would, without hesitation, send it back to S&W.

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Ogy

Thank you for your response, would you accept S&W fixing this gun and would you feel confident with it? Or would you expect something different?

I have sent 2 in for repair/modification and was well pleased with their service.

I haven't had a situation like that, but I think a reasonable approach would be to give them a chance to make it right... first make sure you let them know ALL the problems (the finish issues and especially the failure to fire issues). If they say they fixed it and send it back to you, then do the same series of test fires with various ammo to ensure that it is indeed fixed. If so, then problem solved and you should have confidence it it. If it still is failing then at that point I would ask them for a replacement gun. The third possibility (less likely) is that they will tell you it can't be fixed and just send you a replacement or refund...not sure if that ever happens! It is a pain in the *** to have to deal with stuff like this with a new gun for sure, so I feel your frustration.... Good luck!

Thank you for your time!

I will give Smith & Wesson a chance to make this right, as many of you have already. I will keep you updated on what happens.

Also, if any of you would like to continue to share your stories or advice please do so. I appreciate it.

As with any new gun, I never feel confident with it until I put at least 200-300 rd's thru it, whether it's been repaired or it's straight out of the box.

Who knows, maybe by having someone work on the gun on a one on one basis you might have better luck than one that went "down the line" passing through the hands of many.

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Ogy

Thank you for your perspective!

I wonder if something as simple as an untightened from the factory strain screw is at fault for those failure to fire rounds? The strain screw is on the lower front of the gripframe, ie, under the grip, and should be tight - fully CW. I hope this helps.

Stainz

Have you taken the firearm back to the store you bought it at?
I bought a used 686 and it has a 30 day warranty from the Store. They make it right, or I get money back.

I hear great things about S&W customer service. Your case should be an interesting one. However, I feel for you. You go out and buy a S&W product with your own hard earned money just to have it full of problems.
That sucks!
Let us know how you make out.

No I haven't taken the gun to the store I bought it from. I'll have to read the receipt that I signed to see if there is something about "No Returns" or restocking fee or something. Frankly, I'd rather not deal with this store as they purchased two brand new 686 SSR's when I ordered mine and it seems I got the worse condition one. I would think the business would want to make me happy (giving me the best condition one) as I've bought two brand new guns from them and I've mentioned to them I was in the market for something after this...

I am still waiting on the prepaid shipping label from S&W, so any day now.

I had a 642 that on its first trip to the range failed to fire most rounds. Turns out it had a short firing pin. S&W fixed it, no questions asked, and it hasn't failed since.

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63, 640, 65LS, 66, 1894C

Pictures just because


As you can see in the pic above, the chips/damage to the frame.

As you can see in the pic above, the gouge/damage below the forcing cone. Also, see the forcing cone on the left side there is a chip.

So the 686 ssr made its way to the S&W warranty dept on Thursday. (fedex tracking confirmed) I called yesterday and they said the gun just arrived and they couldn't give me any information on it, or what's going to be done. They said in about 7-10 working days. The CS was very rude from the get-go.

Do you typically hear from S&W prior to them sending out a "fixed" gun?

Based on the pictures, can the frame on this gun be "fixed" or will a new frame be necessary?

Thanks in advance!

I've always found them helpful, but they have never been what I'd call "friendly." Sometimes you get a decent rep.; sometimes you get one with a attitude. Dealing with S&W's Customer Service is sort of like speaking with the Department of Motor Vehicles in a large city. But to be fair, dealing with the public day in and day out can sour most people's prospective on the human race.

I've had only one experience sending back a gun to them. It was fixed 100%.

"Frankly, I'd rather not deal with this store as they purchased two brand new 686 SSR's when I ordered mine and it seems I got the worse condition one. I would think the business would want to make me happy (giving me the best condition one) as I've bought two brand new guns from them and I've mentioned to them I was in the market for something after this..."

Personally, I wouldn't hold it against the store; they probably just took the one off the top without looking at it very hard. After all, you didn't notice it until well after you had left the store.

As far as S&W customer service being rude, I wasn't there, so maybe they were, maybe they weren't. It seems many people today want somebody to hold their hand and tell them every little thing that's going on, instead of just letting people do their job. You had Fed Ex tracking, so you know it got there. What else do you need to know until they repair it and send it back? I know it's a big purchase for most people, but it's just one of thousands to them. Heck, let me tell you about the car I bought one time.....

Bullet Bob

I do agree with you on everything you've said, except the fact that you say it's too much to ask for the status of my gun. You're right, we have spent a lot of money on these guns, and to be able to speak with a warranty rep is not asking too much. I would like to know if I am getting a replacement? Am I getting my money back? etc.

This is not the first thing that I've had warranty work done on, yet this was the most in the dark I've felt. I do not expect a call from every person that touches my gun, but a friendly, "hey we see what you're talking about, we will be replacing the frame, issuing you a new serial number- yada yada." This would put me at ease and I wouldn't need anything more than that.

If a new serial number is issued then I would assume they would ship to a FFL dealer right? It would do me no good to wait a few weeks and just wonder why the gun hasn't arrived yet. And the way you expect things to be done, I won't call I'll just wait until someone calls me.

Also, in my personal and professional experience, I've always had the best outcome when I am constantly doing my utmost to "bug" vendors. Try working in the construction field with the attitude of, "just let people do their jobs." You would run out of money and time.

Please pm me your car buying experience, im interested!

With Respect,

Ryan

S&W customer service will send you a letter ackownledging receipt of your device and their diagnosis/repair. The letter will come regular mail. If they replace the frame (which I doubt, some polishing may be in order) they will send the new firearm with new serial number directly to you, which they are allowed to do. (Manufatcurers have FFL's also)

Many owners and collectors of firearms place some extra special value on these machines, they think the device is special. It is not, it is a piece of property with a market value. S&W cranks out tens of thousands of fine wheel guns each year. The expectation for warranty service is 6-8 weeks and in my recent experiences it is done in about three.

Steve,

You've touched on exactly what I'm fearful of. I don't see how you can polish out the damage I have. I don't see how you can polish out chips from the forcing cone, and I don't see how you can polish the chips missing from the frame. Polishing removes a layer of metal, this is something I do not want!

All these forums talk about possible damage to cracking forcing cones, etc. the last thing I want is to weaken my gun.

Dang it! I'm bummed.

Also, as I'm new to Smith & Wesson and everyone's excuses that S&W makes hundreds of thousands of guns does not make up for the fact that they sent out a damaged and faulty gun and their customer service is not up to par with many other company's. We can all talk about how many guns are sent back to the warranty dept and how busy they are, but it still remains they have a very valuable item to me and they need to treat it that way. Anything else is not acceptable.

Let's think about another analogy, imagine you bought a new car and something was majorly damaged and faulty on this car. If you sent your car in for repairs, you'd like to know what's going to be fixed and how. At least I do. I like to know they are going to repair the vehicle the way it was originally designed from the factory. Let's say among other problems the paint was damaged on the fender - I would find it unacceptable to have it sanded down and repainted by bob the painter down the street, I'd want a new painted fender from the factory. This is what fears me about my gun, I don't want this gun to be filed down and polished the way Steve mentions.

I realize that my concerns are probably over board and not many others share my views, so I'm not going to continue on with this. If S&W wants to file and sand down the gun so that it "appears" better the 686 ssr will be the last S&W i buy.

I appreciate everyone's views and comments, thanks for your time!

Scumbag242, I wish you the best in getting a satisfactory result from
S&W. This thread caught my interest because I bought a 686 SSR
Pro Series awhile back, and haven't had the chance to fire it yet. Mine
looks & sounds just fine, but I'm hoping I don't get the same surprises
you did when I get it to the range.

Just received a call from S&W and they will be replacing my gun with a new one. I'm very excited about this. The lady said it may take up to two more weeks for all the paperwork and what not before the gun ships. The lady asked for a local dealer to send the gun back too.

A few questions

1.) Does the gun have to be sent back to a FFL dealer in CA?

2.) Do I have to wait another 10 day waiting period when the gun arrives at the FFL dealer?

Unfortunately, this sometimes happens with both S&W and Ruger as well as Springfield. Probably others as well. I have had reasons to send SOME of my S&Ws back for correction and MOST of my Rugers. One out of two for Springfield. It is frustrating, but this is now the cross which consumers are forced to bear.
Patience and persistance are the keys to success. Ask for a call tag, so you won't have to pay for shipping. They will give it to you. Ask them firmly to fix ALL the issues, and wait for them to return it to you. If there are still issues, ask for another call tag. The factory does not like to pay for shipping twice, so there will be no third time.
I have had ALL of mine corrected, usually the first time around. One S&W and one Springfield required two trips back to the factory before all was well, but in the end all WAS well.
Hang in there!
Andy

Yes the gun will have to be transferred to you through an FFL dealer. I'd suggest going through the dealer who sold you your original 686 SSR because he'll waive the transfer fee if he is at all smart. If you go with a different dealer I expect that they'll charge you the normal going rate for a transfer because they don't have "any skin in the game".

As for why this is a requirement the answer is a two part answer. First part is that it will have a different serial number than the revolver that S&W is replacing. Per ATF rules new serial number means an entirely new transfer.

Second part is due to the ATF not issuing a clearly difined ruling on "re-issuing" a prior serial number for a firearm that is being replaced. Years ago some manufacturers would destroy the old frame and re-issue the serial number for that frame to a replacement. When this was done it was considered a Replacement instead of a Transfer so that the need to go through a FFL dealer didn't exist. However, because the ATF has specifically stated that this can be done legally most manufacturers won't stick their neck out and re-issue a prior serial number.

Yeah, it's pretty DUMB. However if you really expect common sense practicality from a Government Agency you've been living in a different universe than the rest of us.

As for the 10 day wait, you'll need to contact the California DOJ on that. Personally, I suspect that it will be treated as a new transfer and you'll have to wait the 10 days and pay for any fees that the state mandates for the purchase of a new handgun.

Yeah, this means that you'll probably end up a bit out of pocket on this. I would suggest that next time you talk to S&W you ask them to throw in some "sweeteners" to help balance out the extra cost this transfer will cause you. IIRC the 686 SSR is equipped with the interchangeable front sight system so I'd ask them to throw in a Gold Bead Patridge and Fiber Optic sight for your SSR as compensation for their mistake costing you extra. The plain truth is that particular frame should never have even had a barrel mounted to it much less been shipped to a paying customer.

Scooter,

I really appreciate you taking your time to review this thread and I thank you for commenting. I will keep this thread alive when I receive my gun back from S&W and hopefully my attitude goes from being very upset to very pleased.

S&W stated that they would reimburse me any fee's I have to pay if I send them a copy of the invoice. If the gun is received in 100% condition I'll give them a break.

I received my new 686 SSR on Friday. This new gun still has some slight flaws in the finish, but definitely acceptable compared to the last gun. I have not taken this gun to the range yet but this gun feels really smooth and it really is a thing of beauty. I bought some snap caps and pulled the trigger a few hundred times already.

Just for reference, this whole process took close to 2 months since the day I bought the gun.

Scumbag, keep an eye on the forcing cone for the next 3k rounds. My 686 developed a ridge on the outside similar to yours after a lot of use. If you have to send it back again they'll probably bevel the outside edge (like they did mine), which doesn't effect forcing cone / cylinder gap.

Well, I've taken my 686 SSR out to the range twice now and I have a new problem. I've probably put around 200-300 rounds through it.

The round circular plate that the firing pin pokes through, the plate has like little chips or indents now. It doesn't appear to affect performance but is an eye sore. Is this normal?

Also, does anyone have any advice to clean the very front of the barrel on this gun, the tip of the barrel is recessed a bit, and I cannot get this perfectly clean. I've tried using the Lead removing cloths with some elbow grease, but I cant get rid of it all.

A couple weeks ago I bought a CZ 75 P-07 which was very lightly used...about 9 months old. When I got it home I discovered it has the magazine release problem. I emailed CZ on Wednesday, received a FEDEX return label and shipped the gun back on Thursday. Received an email that they had received the gun on Friday. Received a second email on Monday that they had shipped the "repaired" gun back to me. On Tuesday I received a brand new gun as a replacement.

If they treat all of their customers like that, and when the word gets around, they are going to gain a large share of the handgun market in the US.

As I recall, they guarantee their guns for 5 years.

Interestingly, the largest and fastest growing companies, Wal-Mart, IKEA, Home Depot, etc, are the ones with the best customer service.

Nope scumbag - that gouge under the forcing cone can't be fixed and is unacceptable. As mentioned, the light fires are probably the strain screw or a firing pin problem easy to remedy. However the cosmetic issues are not right IMHO. - hutch

That's Metal Injection Molding for ya. It makes for junk parts but it's all the rage now. That is not normal and it looks like yet another trip back to S&W for it.

That's just another reason to buy the oldies but goodies. Dang Freedom Group!

Bag, I feel for you but some of your expectations are little over the top, particularly the automobile fender one. Good luck ever seeing that happen on a car of any price. Through no fault of his own, our son recently needed a replacement fender and front facia for his $52,000 2013 Audi A6 "Premium Platinum" (or some such) edition in a $750 extra-cost, hard-to-match color on the same day he took delivery of the car. Painted body panels are not in Audi's parts catalog.

But you are spot-on in your assessment of customer service today. I am a retired auto dealership service manager and preached to my employees and family that communication is the heart of any relationship, be it business or personal. In the dealership, keeping the client in the loop was critical to success, with success being measured by customer satisfaction survey scores and repeat business.

Today, however, fewer employees are expected to wear more hats and carry out more responsibilities. Since processing paperwork and actually working on guns seems more important to the company's future than holding a customer's hand, guess what isn't a priority.

Patience on the part of the customer is crucial to a good outcome. I once bought a new Remington Model 700M-KS, a super-lightweight Kevlar-stocked Mountain Rifle produced by Remington's Custom Shop with a retail price of $2,130. Its barrel's point of impact was 21" to the right of its point of aim (POA) at 100 yards. Remington asked that I return it and they replaced the barrel only to find that the rifle still did not shoot to POA. It was eventually discovered that every barrel of that chambering that the Custom Shop had in inventory bore the same defect, so a barrel was ordered from Shilen, one of the Custom Shop's vendors.

Long story short, the whole process took over three months with much of that time spent waiting for the barrel to come from Shilen. But because I was polite and patient with the manager with whom I was dealing, they did a few other things that did not involve correcting defects but made the rifle even more valuable as their way of apologizing for the delay even though that delay was not fully their fault.

In today's bigger-better-faster manufacturing environment, quality sometimes falls through cracks. How that is made right is the true measure of a company's character.

But those cracks are the reasons I only buy older Smith & Wessons.

Ed

My 686 SSR did not fire certain hard-primer imported .357 rounds. After removing the grip, I was able to tighten the strain screw one full turn. I had never seen this on a fresh-from-factory revolver. The gun now discharges these hard-primer rounds.

Really ? ? ? I have yet to see any indication that the firing pin bushing is MIM and having worked as a Design and Manufacturing Engineer in Automotive since 1982 and am rather familiar with machine shop practices having once held a Journeyman Machinist card. There is no way at all that it would be less expensive to make an MIM firing pin bushing than it is to make them using a CNC lathe with an automated bar feeder. As simple as a firing pin bushing is, S&W could set up a CnC lathe to run them without any operator needed on the machine until new stock was needed for the bar feeder. With a large bar feeder this means that machine could run a week or more cranking out a bushing every 18-24 seconds. For a simple round part like this there is no method on the planet cheaper than a CnC lathe and S&W is rather good at keeping costs down.

Since there has been a recent "outbreak" of reports of chipped firing pin bushings I believe that the cause is a batch of out or specification steel or improper heat treating. Most likely it's out of specification steel. Like almost any manufacturer today I expect that S&W relies on their supplier to "certify" any basic bar stock. As a result, a rare error in material tracking or a plain foulup on the bar mill can result is steel stock that is out of specification and won't heat treat properly. If that's the case it's likely an issue with a rather small batch of revolvers but I expect we will see complaints for another year or two.

The answer to anyone with this problem is to contact S&W and send the revolver in for a warranty replacement of the firing pin bushing. While it's inconvenient it's what warranties are for and S&W has a history of turning around warranty repairs with surprising speed most of the year. BTW, 2 times of year they won't turn around a warranty quickly, that is during the August break and the Christmas holiday, so anyone with warranty issues should try and avoid these two periods.

PS; the August break has it's roots in Farming practices. People sometimes forget that Massachusetts once had a large number of family farms and when Industry was first growing in this country it was very common for manufacturing plants to close during the Harvest so that it's workers could go home and help with the harvest on the family farm.

Ditto on this. I've had a few Smith revolvers where the previous owner thought loosening the strain screw was the proper way to do a "trigger job" - tightened em all the way and Blue Loctite made sure it stays more reliable with igniting primers.. even if it does make the trigger a little heavier. Quickly learned with the help from more knowledgable folks here that strain screw stays all the way in.

As far as S&W's customer service goes... I always felt them to be very straight to the point. Agreed that a lot of people nowadays expect to be treated like they're the only person alive. I'm fine with their customer service as I've always found them to do their work fast and efficiently. One of my revolvers actually came back to me fixed before their letter notifying me that they received my revolver reached me. I'm used to H&K's customer service which a lot of people complain to be cold and condescending, etc... but I found them contently straight to the point as well.