Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Notices


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-26-2012, 12:56 AM
Dave Nash's Avatar
Dave Nash Dave Nash is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 0
Liked 238 Times in 50 Posts
Default Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA

Many times people wonder how or why a Smith & Wesson they shoot or have in their collection was developed. Sometimes they can look things up in any one of a number of the fine texts dealing with S&W arms. Sometimes they can search through the threads on this site to see if a gun like theirs has been discussed in the past. And sometimes (in the case of more recent items) the factory might be able to tell them a little bit about it too.

But one of the best and most personable resources you’ll ever find is the Smith & Wesson Collectors Association.

Many of you know that they share a non-public portion of this site and you can go here: Information about the SWCA to learn more about them and to inquire about membership. But what I want you to know is that this piece is typical of the kind of thing that the people over there contribute regularly both on line and in their Association Journal. It contains things just not available to non-Members (this post is an exception being made only to serve as an illustration of what they do). Those Members also have access to private data-bases, certain factory materials, and personally acquired information that can be great assets in determining what it is you have and why it came about.

But the best part of being a Member are the friendships you’ll make with people who are always willing to lend a hand and share what they know. Whether it is online, at the Annual Meeting that moves around the country each year or at any of the local get-togethers regularly held throughout the US (often at major shows that many of you already attend), you won’t find a better bunch of individuals to learn from and share information with.

I hope that you enjoy this back story on the creation of the Full Lug Model 14’s but I also hope that you take a moment and visit the page I mentioned above and link to the SWCA and learn more about them. It’s a great group and one that you should seriously consider joining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilinEd View Post
I am planning on starting a search for a M14/K38 soon and wondering what opinions are on the 90's ones with the full underlug. Any advantages or disadvantages for target shooting? I will be looking for a good range gun rather than a collection one
Quote:
Originally Posted by PMRet View Post
I owned a 6" 14-5 and it was the most accurate .38 I ever fired. It is slightly muzzle heavy, but in target shooting that usually helps to steady the gun. If you think about it, the full lug adds weight like the King and BoMar sight ribs did, and a lot of older standard model 14's have been fitted with them over the years...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18DAI View Post
…I think these revolvers have been overlooked for some time. It is only in the last few years that a strong interest in them is being exhibited, IMO. I would seek them out and buy one now, while the prices are still very reasonable. Regards 18DAI

Quote:
Originally Posted by civil1977 View Post
The full lug 14s are very nice! I like the muzzle heavy feel of the 6" full lug barrel. Its balances very nice. The 14-5 was the first version made with the full lug and it was only made for 3-4 years before being replaced with the 14-6… I went for the 14-5… …I picked up this one with original box and papers/tools. Its scary accurate!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PattonTime View Post
I think the early 90's underlug revolvers are among my favorites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PattonTime View Post
\They are muzzle heavy, but I drink a lot of coffee so it works for me…\
Quote:
Originally Posted by CALREB View Post
ED, all 14's are good shooting guns but IMO, the 14-5/6/7 are nicely weighted for 38 ,easy shooting and have nice actions…

Quote:
Originally Posted by GyMac View Post
I used to not like them, preferring the original style. Lately, though, I've come to appreciate them. It seems pretty close to a PPC revolver out of the box.

“SmilinEd”

The 6” Full Lug Model 14 was developed for exactly the purpose you are planning to address: target shooting and that “GyMac” (and others) have noticed: it's being intended as an out-of-the-box PPC Revolver. It was designed to give the user the features and the muzzle heavy feel normally found on a custom piece but at the price of a production handgun.

For some reason, while the factory was making Full Lug Model 16’s and 17’s in the early 90’s (in .32 Magnum and .22LR respectively), they had no interest in resurrecting the then-discontinued Model 14 in this format and in its traditional .38 Special chambering.

However, constant requests from Law Enforcement PPC shooters for an accurate .38 Special in something less cumbersome than a 6” L frame (which was available in only .357 Magnum at the time and, therefore, was often suspected of a lesser accuracy potential when firing a .38spl target load) led to a single sample that was taken to the now-gone, national-level Secret Service Match in Beltsville for feedback.

It was a handbuilt gun employing a converted Model 16 Full Lug Centerfire Frame with a re-bored and re-rifled Full Lug .22caliber Barrel and an original unused Model 14 Cylinder that came out of the parts department. The Model 16 was a used writer’s sample that had come back to the factory after making the rounds. The barrel came off the shop floor and was re-bored, rifled and honed as a favor in the plant and then remarked in the engraving department to indicate the correct caliber. The cylinder was installed, as were the smooth combat trigger and the wide target hammer, in the Customer Service repair department. Another man in that crew came up with the appropriate-height-for-.38’s Patridge Front Sight and a corresponding Black Rear Blade.

This hastily but skillfully assembled “parts” gun (constructed to represent what it was believed would be possible in standard production) repeatedly shot one hole groups when test fired at 25yards.

Feedback from the Match was positive but the company was still unsure if they should proceed. It was posited that not only would this revolver do well in the stock PPC classes (and with those folks shooting informal PPC-like “combat” matches) but it would also do well in certain NRA Action Revolver competitions and in many of the revolver events in Europe where the then-discontinued, original no-lug Model 14 still maintained an iconic-like status.

Additionally as it was believed that production models would be tack drivers like the single sample had proven to be, it was felt that target shooters and plinkers alike would see its value to them; especially as the gun also had all the right features right out of the box.

It had a .38 Cylinder so the bullets didn’t have to jump as far when fired. It had a Black Patridge Sight and not a distracting colored ramp blade. It had a crisper Black Rear Blade and not an unneeded white outline. It had a Smooth Combat Trigger (and would have had a still-narrower smooth service trigger but the company no longer possessed the tooling for it) instead of a serrated target trigger that would have worked against the shooter in many of the events in which the gun would be used. And it had a wide Target Hammer for those shooters who still thumb-cocked the gun at certain stages and (generally) longer distances. Even the Combat Grips, while not perfect (not everybody’s fingers lined up with its gentle finger ridges) made more sense with their tapered-toward-the-bottom-like-a-closed-hand profile than did the oversize big-at-the-bottom factory “target” stocks that normally would have been included on a gun of this type.

After much discussion, it was finally decided to offer the gun as a “Special” and not as a cataloged item. Originally, it was planned to make 3500 of them. This number was later said to be reduced to 3000 and word is that the actual number was probably far less than that. The Company made no writer or promotional samples ahead of time so the guns hit the shelves well before any articles reached the public. When the orders didn’t rush in (not surprising as the public didn’t know it was out there), the decision was made (as was common in those days, not now) to blow out the inventory as it was assumed that the gun was indeed the dog that many of the naysayers had predicted it would be. As a result, by the time the very favorable press did reach the consumers (most of the writers saw everything I have already pointed out here), the initial guns had already worked their way through the system and there were none left to sell and no plans to make any more.

After another series of discussions brought about by the delayed consumer interest, it was finally decided that there was a place for this model and ultimately, it was added to the catalog as a regular item.

However, it was always a sleeper and never made in huge numbers. It is a great gun. It is still something of an unknown quantity (except to those who own or have shot one) and it is a great buy for the money. But I am in full agreement with several of the posters here that such a situation won’t last forever. There are not that many around and while now that just affects their availability and one’s chances of finding one, someday soon it will also drive the prices up into the stratosphere.

Unless you just happen to get a bad one (remember it is a machine made from a variety of parts and anything is possible), I don’t think that you will be disappointed. For while the company never promised a particular group size or level of accuracy, in my experience (and apparently in the experiences of many who have answered you here) it will not just be the “good range gun” you seek, it will be a great one.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-26-2012, 02:30 AM
northslope northslope is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Central Valley, CA
Posts: 416
Likes: 7
Liked 148 Times in 37 Posts
Default

Dave, thanks for this - I've been meaning to join the SWCA for a while now and this is a great reminder why I ought to.

And, I'm a huge fan of the full-lug K38...

--Neill



Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 02-26-2012, 04:49 AM
CALREB's Avatar
CALREB CALREB is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: california, unfortunately
Posts: 614
Likes: 44
Liked 233 Times in 108 Posts
Default 14 lugged

Really interesting post. I thought I had gotten my 1st 14-5 around 89-90, but must have been later.Carried it in a Bianchi Judge swivel, most citizens had only seen officers standard 14's , I was always getting asked " is that a 44 magnum?" usually I smiled and said yes. That gun still shoots 1 hole at 25 yrds after probably 25-30,000 rds. Finally had to switch to a S/A to teach at the academy. Nice guns , love the 4" model. Bob
Attached Thumbnails
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA-dscn1190-1-2-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #4  
Old 02-26-2012, 03:01 PM
teesur's Avatar
teesur teesur is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Osyka, Mississippi
Posts: 725
Likes: 79
Liked 502 Times in 156 Posts
Default

Bump back to top.
It's really worth reading.
teesur.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-26-2012, 03:24 PM
Doug M.'s Avatar
Doug M. Doug M. is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Washington State
Posts: 4,021
Likes: 3,811
Liked 2,957 Times in 1,463 Posts
Default

Interesting. I plan to eventually obtain an M14/K38, and was sure that the traditional barrel style would be the ticket, but I may revisit that after seeing this. I am not sure I can overcome my distaste for the ugly full lug barrels, but I may have to become more open minded.
__________________
NHI. 10-8.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-26-2012, 04:43 PM
civil1977's Avatar
civil1977 civil1977 is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,288
Likes: 22
Liked 544 Times in 219 Posts
Default

Great article on the full lug Model 14! Thanks for sharing it.

Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #7  
Old 02-26-2012, 10:23 PM
hsguy hsguy is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Suburban Chicago
Posts: 3,380
Likes: 90
Liked 1,391 Times in 384 Posts
Default

Thank you for the great article based upon first-hand knowledge. A great example of the type of information available to members of the SWCA. Those of you that have an interest in S&W's should seriously consider joining the group, it is one of the best bargains in the gun collecting world!
__________________
John. SWCA #1586
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-27-2012, 05:43 AM
Model52's Avatar
Model52 Model52 is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium
Posts: 35
Likes: 1
Liked 15 Times in 7 Posts
Default

I own a Model 14 Masterpiece, but without the full lug. Does anyone know until when this lugless model was produced?
Attached Thumbnails
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA-model-14-jpg  
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #9  
Old 02-27-2012, 09:15 AM
PMRet PMRet is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: NC
Posts: 1,915
Likes: 260
Liked 592 Times in 218 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Model52 View Post
I own a Model 14 Masterpiece, but without the full lug. Does anyone know until when this lugless model was produced?
The K-38 Masterpiece/Model 14 was produced from 1947 until 1982. It's designation was changed from K-38 to Model 14 in 1957 when S&W began assigning model numbers to all of their guns. It was then reintroduced in 1991 with the full lug barrel and produced until 1999.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-28-2012, 05:05 AM
Model52's Avatar
Model52 Model52 is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Knokke-Heist, Belgium
Posts: 35
Likes: 1
Liked 15 Times in 7 Posts
Default

OK, thanks for the info!
__________________
Si vis pacem, para bellum
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-28-2012, 12:55 PM
SmilinEd SmilinEd is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Pretty interesting and useful. I do have a late 70's 6" M14 on the way from another forum member. As a fairly new forum member I am always impressed by the depth of knowledge of members here. If the M14 does as well as my 6" 617 (full lug) it will be great. Thanks.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-28-2012, 01:01 PM
18DAI's Avatar
18DAI 18DAI is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: GSO NC
Posts: 4,369
Likes: 7,516
Liked 4,251 Times in 1,227 Posts
Default

Dave Nash, could you provide us with any info on the 2.5 inch full lug 14-6's done up by Jim Rae for the PPC off duty matches?

I've heard that there were less than 25 made. Any info or pics would be greatly appreciated. Regards 18DAI
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #13  
Old 12-29-2012, 04:06 AM
Gryff's Avatar
Gryff Gryff is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bay Area, California
Posts: 224
Likes: 4
Liked 221 Times in 57 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CALREB View Post
love the 4" model
Did the factory produce a full-lug 4" model? I thought I read that they did a batch for a distributor.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 02-08-2017, 12:12 PM
pharman pharman is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 836
Likes: 1,756
Liked 748 Times in 282 Posts
Wink Yes they did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gryff View Post
Did the factory produce a full-lug 4" model? I thought I read that they did a batch for a distributor.
Yes they did...a batch from Performance Center for "Roper" distributors...were "prizes" for police matches...see page 438 SCSW 4th Edition...VERY NEAT revolver and extremely rare...Product code #170154
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #15  
Old 02-08-2017, 03:46 PM
Jebus35745's Avatar
Jebus35745 Jebus35745 is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Independence, OH, USA
Posts: 4,319
Likes: 12,653
Liked 2,216 Times in 988 Posts
Default

Anyone want to come to the NE Ohio bunch, you'll be able to see 3 of the 4" model 14 Roper guns on display. Huh Roger??? That Bam-Bam guy seems to have the edge on 3" K frames buy we got him here. Larry

Last edited by Jebus35745; 02-08-2017 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #16  
Old 02-08-2017, 06:03 PM
pharman pharman is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Northwest Ohio
Posts: 836
Likes: 1,756
Liked 748 Times in 282 Posts
Default They will be there!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jebus35745 View Post
Anyone want to come to the NE Ohio bunch, you'll be able to see 3 of the 4" model 14 Roper guns on display. Huh Roger??? . Larry
Yes there is a real good chance that 3 of the 4" Model 14 Roper guns will be there! Thank you Larry!

Last edited by pharman; 02-08-2017 at 06:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:02 PM
SmithNut SmithNut is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
Liked 2,640 Times in 494 Posts
Default Roper M14-6 4" models

If you can't make the meeting, or just want to save on the gas, there are three on the left side of this pic...



Enjoy
__________________
.............SmithNut
Reply With Quote
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 02-08-2017, 08:31 PM
91B40 91B40 is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Crescent City, CA USA
Posts: 49
Likes: 28
Liked 10 Times in 6 Posts
Default Full Lug M-14

Thanks for the informative post. One of my grail guns.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #19  
Old 02-08-2017, 10:33 PM
SmithNut SmithNut is offline
SWCA Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,866
Likes: 0
Liked 2,640 Times in 494 Posts
Default

Some additional info on the 4" Roper models....

MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT!
__________________
.............SmithNut
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 03-20-2017, 04:28 PM
JohnHL JohnHL is offline
Member
Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA Origins of the Model 14 Full Lug & An Introduction to the SWCA  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: High Ridge, Mo.
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 2,005
Liked 886 Times in 443 Posts
Default

I have bumped this thread because I need to contact the OP, Dave Nash.
I have some property of his that was produced in the Smith & Wesson Model Shop (Experimental Shop).

Thanks!

John
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
22lr, 357 magnum, 38spl, 44 magnum, 617, bianchi, k38, l frame, m14, masterpiece, model 14, model 16, model 52, nra, patridge, ppc, serrated, smith-wessonforum.com, swca

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: S&W Model 63-4 with 5" barrel (SWCA Members only) THREEDFLYER WANTED to Buy 10 04-24-2017 10:48 PM
New SWCA Member - no access to SWCA Forum caddy2507 FORUM OFFICE 4 08-13-2016 08:49 AM
SWCA Gun - Engraved/Inlaid Model 57 Pre-29Smith S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 25 07-18-2014 07:27 AM
A S&W in X-MEN Origins Wolverine K-Mart85 The Lounge 1 05-03-2009 08:35 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:24 AM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)