I have read in a few places that the Classics line that came with case hardened colored frames were not standard method to get the colors. Instead they used a chemical process that while it makes great coloration but it also makes for an easy to remove coloration if you aren't careful. I only know that the colors on decades old triggers only come off with harsh cleaners or something abrasive and Hoppes #9 isn't near harsh enough and it took a green scour pad to scuff the remaining coloration off a trigger that someone decided they didn't like. So if this is indeed true that the Classics had a good looking but easy to ruin finish with the coloration, what are you supposed to use to clean the gun and maintain the colors from fading???

Is there any truth to any of this or am I falling for more interwebz rumors???

I believe all the Smith frames were done by Turnbull, they're the real thing. Ruger uses the cheap method.
Then again, I could be wrong, once again.

__________________
Sure you did

The coloring during case hardening, sometimes called carbo-nitriding, is the unintended by-product of the process.

To heat treat steel, it needs to have a high carbon content. Without the high carbon content, the heating and quenching will have no hardening effect.

You can infuse a carbon content to the steel by placing it in a carbon rich material (usually cyanide). The longer you leave the steel in teh cyanide, the deeper the carbon will reach into the steel's surface. When you harden the steel only the surface gets hardened; the interior of the piece remains "soft".

This can be an advantage as it gives good surface hardness without the brittleness that is associated with through hardened materials.

Ideally the heat treater will case harden the pieces with the goal of achieving the best mechanical properties, not the best color.

The coloring was chemical. It comes off if you use a solvent that contains ammonia. I told my son to clean my 21-4 without checking the solvent. and it now has a bare spot on the frame where the coloring came off. Please be careful!

__________________
SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Ruger has stopped using this process on their frames for that reason. It doesn't hold up long term. Give Turnbull a call for the real thing.

Well, I was half right so far, sort of. The early Heritage Series( various models 10's, 24's 15's),made circa 2000, not the Classic guns WERE case colored. They were done by Turnbull, but the runs were cut short as they had warped sideplate issues. I'm in the process of asking about the Classics made with the IL, in the private section for SWCA members. THOSE are likely faux case color,more to come on that.
The 10 below is the real deal, they made 80 or so of these in this run, some marked 10-9, some 10-7. There were some made in round butt also, the only one I ever saw was SmithNut's gun....but he has everything ever made
So to answer your question Bob, there were guns made with case color, they were the Heritage Series. I thought they were also named Classics. That's what happens when you lend your SCSW out.

__________________
Sure you did

My 15-9 Heritage indeed has Doug Turnbulls logo stamped on grip frame. According to his website, they use "original bone pack method" of firearm refinishing. I've noticed no change in appearance after almost 1200 rds in the last month. Have used Hoppes #9, Wilson Combat bore cleaner and Breakfree. I suppose the colors may fade a little over time, like some Colt SAAs I have. So far so good though.

Yes, those runs are the real deal, can't vouch for the "Classics". I wish I had bought a M24 also.

__________________
Sure you did

I seem to recall that sunlight will cause the real case color to fade.
Do Not leave it in strong sunlight for any length of time.!!! In the olden days it wasn't done for decorative reasons but to surface harden the metal against wear, as they did not have modern alloys we have today.

I thought the "Heritage" line got forged parts and was pre ILS. Then the "Classics" got the MIM parts and have the ILS in the frame. I'm talking specifically about the "Classics" and it's sounding like while they may be very serviceable guns, the fancy coloration is a fragile thing.

Am I correct with those statements?

Years ago I had a Remington rollingblock action built as a 45-70. I had the receiver case colored the old fashion way, bone charcoal process. When I received it the smith had a note with it to coat it with a solution mixture of 1/2 lacquer and 1/2 thinner. It had been wraped in cling wrap to guard against fingerprints (oils) etc. I did as he instructed, that was about 1985, it still looks good. It seems to have protected it well. Just my 2 cents.

I have a Model 10-7 that has a case hardened frame, Ser# CRS0062. It is beautiful. Someone fired a few rounds through it, but no damage. It is a square butt. Were all of these marked by Turnbell? If they were, where is the mark?

medxam

__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Yes it is, the real deal.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-rev...bate-over.html

__________________
Sure you did

I have other guns with Doug Turnbull case hardening. It is the real deal and they are all beautiful.

One day I will find a Heritage Line pistol and it will come home with me.

Many thanks, Ladder 13! I will have to clean it up and put in in a special bore store. I bought it on a lark, many years ago from Simpson's, just because i liked it's looks!

Anyone have any idea what these are worth today?

medxam

__________________
Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Doc, I have CRS0080 which is supposedly the last one made of the M10 Heritage, and it is a -9 and NIB. The SCSW says they made them in -7 and -9, kinda weird. I paid $600 for mine a couple years ago. Hope it's worth more now

__________________
Sure you did

Why did they not use the same coloring on the barrel?

I'm guessing the same reason Colt and USFA didn't do it.................which is........... I have no idea

__________________
Sure you did

I'm glad to hear the truth about the Classic series. I have a Model 22 of 1917. The case colors are equal to my Colt SAA's. I also have a Ruger New Vaquero that has the case color that is a chemical process. The Ruger doesn't have colors even close to the real thing.

Having Turnbull do it, you know it's right.

__________________
Sure you did

I just purchased today at the Marietta Gun show in Ga a 10-9 never been fired code 178006FC square but serial number CRS0089 and the made a run of 200 total according to S&W. I paid $600 It's in fine 100% condition with the box and papers. I will try to get a picture on here asap

IMG_0643.jpg

Here is a pic of the new Family member

[ATTACH]IMG_0647.jpg[/AIMG_0647.jpgTTACH]IMG_0646.jpg

a couple more

Winchester used to color case the frames, levers, hammers and sometimes forend tips on select rifles they made. Marlin did too. You will often see these 100 year old guns with traces of color in protected areas or if the rifle was lacquered. Color is lost by exposure to sunlight and abrasion.

OK guys, what does the Doug Turnbull Logo look like?
This is my 21-4.


The real deal?

If you look under the stocks on the side bottom of the frame usually you will see a small stamp of a capital D with a capital T inside the D.

The only letters on mine are on the left side - CO

Some hand engraved #'s on right side

According to Doug Turnbull He did not stamp all the S&W frames that he hardened as they requested he not do this some time into the runs after 2001. I am sure yours is done by him. He said he can verify by he did it the serial number.

I would call Turnbull and/or S&W to confirm. It does appear some of the later guns were not marked by Turnbull.

__________________
Sure you did