I just noticed this. Look at these two photos. The first is my 617-2 without a lock. The second is a new 617-6 with a lock.
On the gun with the lock, the frame has been widened to provide room for the lock. Look at the section between the trigger guard and the hammer. It is thicker on the lock gun. Notice how you can see less of the hammer on that gun. The pre-lock gun has a slimmer "waist", which I guess appeals to me visually. I don't have any L frames with locks for comparison, but the same thing is true (to a lesser degree) with my N-Frame guns.

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I never noticed that! Thanks for bring it up. I could never put my finger on it

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2 Timothy 1:7

Well DUH, just kidding. The J-frames are even worse. N-frames with the lock are the least objectionable because the frame profile didn't change, I do own a 629 Mtn Gun that came with a lock, but now has "The Plug" installed. as long as S&W installs the present version of their IL, & insists on making everything round butt, I will not be buying any new S&W revolvers. I actually find not having the choice of square butt at least as bad as the IL!

I have no Lock model Smith and Wesson's. I don't know how they can make the J frames sometimes without locks but insist on making all of the others with locks. Obviously they are ignoring their customers by continuing to do so.

A few years ago they were making a line of Classic reproductions. I assume they didn't sell because they were for sale at CDNN at fire sale prices. Did they really have to put the lock on these?

I do have enough of the older models that I wanted and see no need to buy any new ones.

They look cheap to me with the billboard sized engraving on the barrels, the lock and two piece barrels.

In my younger days I lusted after the models on the Smith and Wesson Poster that had nearly all of the models pictured. I thought that they would go on making them the same way forever. Was I wrong.

Perhaps this is a marketing test. Quite a sucessful one at that. I see lock models languishing on dealers shelves and no lock model commanding a higher price when they can be found.

I have a feeling when the current production crisis dies down we may see some other models offered without the lock.

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NRA Benefactor

Good lod model production guns are still around.

Good old model S&W production guns are still out there if your timing is right.
I asked my local gun store owner what he had in the back room that was ready to go in the for sale case.
He came out of the back room with a 4" Model 686-3 square butt grip gun in mint condition (finish , bore, lockup, et.) with original box and wax paper but mising the grips. Grips were most likely switched to another gun by the original owner.
I asked how much and he said $375 without the grips. Gun is now on layaway to be picked up in the next few weeks.
I've known and delt with this dealer for over 25 years and have been given good deals befor guns hit the for sale case. Last year it was an excellent, 2" Nickel model 34, square butt with diamond grips for $350.
You just have to keep looking and talking and sooner or later a good deal will be found.
Good Luck - J.Solo

The no-lock frames are so much more graceful in the K and L sizes. My ONLY locked revolver is a 617 with the PLUG. I have but one J frame, a 642-1 W/O a lock and several K/L and N frames. IMHO, the IL truly disfigures the revolvers....

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

I will not buy a Smith with a lock. I have a 1500# vault its all the lock I need!

Me and MOST people I know will ONLY buy PRE LOCK/PRE MIM revolvers. UNLESS the revolver I want is not available PRE lock.
Like I am buying a compact 627 8 shot. Or if I wanted a .500 S&W.

If i am looking for another K frame carry revolver , there are plenty of really nice late 70's - early 90's guns for me to buy.

I think that they quit making square butt models sometime during the 1990s, right?

I do not have two guns of this era to compare, but I think about 1998 the K frame design was changed to the longer modern version, along with MIM parts and (in centerfires) the switch to the frame-mounted firing pin. The lock didn't come around until 2001-'02.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

That change in the profile of the frame makes what was the most elegant revolver made into something that looks hulky and ungainly.

It's always been my main objection to the lock. It may also be why we don't see new K frames offered without the lock--unless the machining was changed, it would still have that ugly profile.

As was mentioned before, the N frames don't suffer from it.

In case some of you are newcomers and don't know, this is a closed subject; please see the sticky at the top of this sub-forum:

LOCK- ..can't get past "the hole".

For those of you that have been here awhile, you should know better. Please read Lee's comments at the end of that sticky. I concur with his view on the issue and see no good reason to continue the griping about it on the forum.

I am not a new member, and I most certainly am not griping. I am pointing out something that I did not understand before now. This is NOT a 'hate the lock' thread. I myself own three Smiths with locks. I have not removed the locks; although I have never used. But I could foresee circumstances in which I might want to use the lock.
Examples:
1. I have to leave the gun unattended somewhere, such as in my car or somewhere kids might find it.
2. I want to see if someone whose loyalty is in question might want to pick it up and threaten me with it. Imagine their surprise when I called their bluff! : }

I have no problems with the IL S&W's. I love my 66-7,64-8, 64-7 and two 10-14's.

MIM S&W's have a smoother and more even DA pull and are easier to "work", with parts like extended firing pins, Wilson springs, etc. My 10-14 with light springs and an extended firing pin has never failed me and I have put a lot of rounds through it.

Thank goodness the lock police showed up.....Its the internet and we have every right to discuss the lock....I choose to keep and shoot the guns I have and choose to pass on the new lock revolvers. If I want something to wind up I will get an old pair of skates with the key or a wind up car!

S&W and everyone also said the days of no lock guns were dead but look what happens, j frames with out the lock. I will contuine to do my part and tell S&W of my dislike for the lock and mabye one day they will produce other guns with out the lock. I also dont support bussinesses who have the no ccw sign posted, am I suppost to overlook that one also? I think not!

Agreed. We're not a bunch of children and we are free to discuss how S&W quality has dropped in recent years along with desperate cost cutting measures that have affected the design of the guns we love. If we don't voice our opinions how is S&W to know that we don't appreciate the lock? Or the MIM parts? I have sent them several emails about it, but they never respond. I figure that maybe they're living in ignorance and don't realize the sub-culture they've created of those who choose only to buy their 'old' guns. I would gladly pay what they want for a new revolver if it had a forged hammer/trigger and did not have the IL!

If I understand it right, this is the second growth of that area in question. The first was to add mass for the internal firing pin and the second was for the ILS.

Thanks.
You said what I said very well.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett