Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-08-2012, 09:56 AM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 208
Liked 540 Times in 295 Posts
Default Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.

I just noticed this. Look at these two photos. The first is my 617-2 without a lock. The second is a new 617-6 with a lock.
On the gun with the lock, the frame has been widened to provide room for the lock. Look at the section between the trigger guard and the hammer. It is thicker on the lock gun. Notice how you can see less of the hammer on that gun. The pre-lock gun has a slimmer "waist", which I guess appeals to me visually. I don't have any L frames with locks for comparison, but the same thing is true (to a lesser degree) with my N-Frame guns.
Attached Thumbnails
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.-dscn0981-jpg   Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.-pix775347780-jpg  

Last edited by andyo5; 04-08-2012 at 01:05 PM.
  #2  
Old 04-08-2012, 10:23 AM
Rapidray's Avatar
Rapidray Rapidray is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Douglasville,Georgia
Posts: 826
Likes: 520
Liked 280 Times in 130 Posts
Default You right!

I never noticed that! Thanks for bring it up. I could never put my finger on it
__________________
2 Timothy 1:7
  #3  
Old 04-08-2012, 10:37 AM
Broker50 Broker50 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: East Kentucky
Posts: 809
Likes: 247
Liked 186 Times in 101 Posts
Default

Well DUH, just kidding. The J-frames are even worse. N-frames with the lock are the least objectionable because the frame profile didn't change, I do own a 629 Mtn Gun that came with a lock, but now has "The Plug" installed. as long as S&W installs the present version of their IL, & insists on making everything round butt, I will not be buying any new S&W revolvers. I actually find not having the choice of square butt at least as bad as the IL!
  #4  
Old 04-08-2012, 10:47 AM
fran m fran m is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 96
Likes: 11
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default

I have no Lock model Smith and Wesson's. I don't know how they can make the J frames sometimes without locks but insist on making all of the others with locks. Obviously they are ignoring their customers by continuing to do so.

A few years ago they were making a line of Classic reproductions. I assume they didn't sell because they were for sale at CDNN at fire sale prices. Did they really have to put the lock on these?

I do have enough of the older models that I wanted and see no need to buy any new ones.

They look cheap to me with the billboard sized engraving on the barrels, the lock and two piece barrels.

In my younger days I lusted after the models on the Smith and Wesson Poster that had nearly all of the models pictured. I thought that they would go on making them the same way forever. Was I wrong.
  #5  
Old 04-08-2012, 11:12 AM
Tyrod Tyrod is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Sunny Central Florida
Posts: 1,004
Likes: 261
Liked 614 Times in 233 Posts
Default

Quote:
I don't know how they can make the J frames sometimes without locks but insist on making all of the others with locks.
Perhaps this is a marketing test. Quite a sucessful one at that. I see lock models languishing on dealers shelves and no lock model commanding a higher price when they can be found.

I have a feeling when the current production crisis dies down we may see some other models offered without the lock.
__________________
NRA Benefactor
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 04-08-2012, 12:11 PM
J.Solo J.Solo is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Western New York State
Posts: 274
Likes: 3
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Good lod model production guns are still around.
  #7  
Old 04-08-2012, 12:22 PM
J.Solo J.Solo is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Western New York State
Posts: 274
Likes: 3
Liked 11 Times in 9 Posts
Default

Good old model S&W production guns are still out there if your timing is right.
I asked my local gun store owner what he had in the back room that was ready to go in the for sale case.
He came out of the back room with a 4" Model 686-3 square butt grip gun in mint condition (finish , bore, lockup, et.) with original box and wax paper but mising the grips. Grips were most likely switched to another gun by the original owner.
I asked how much and he said $375 without the grips. Gun is now on layaway to be picked up in the next few weeks.
I've known and delt with this dealer for over 25 years and have been given good deals befor guns hit the for sale case. Last year it was an excellent, 2" Nickel model 34, square butt with diamond grips for $350.
You just have to keep looking and talking and sooner or later a good deal will be found.
Good Luck - J.Solo

Last edited by J.Solo; 04-08-2012 at 12:25 PM.
  #8  
Old 04-08-2012, 12:44 PM
one eye joe's Avatar
one eye joe one eye joe is offline
US Veteran
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,832
Likes: 2,180
Liked 1,730 Times in 732 Posts
Default

The no-lock frames are so much more graceful in the K and L sizes. My ONLY locked revolver is a 617 with the PLUG. I have but one J frame, a 642-1 W/O a lock and several K/L and N frames. IMHO, the IL truly disfigures the revolvers....
__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.
  #9  
Old 04-08-2012, 12:54 PM
NYlakesider's Avatar
NYlakesider NYlakesider is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern NY-AdirondackMts
Posts: 3,402
Likes: 3,659
Liked 3,828 Times in 1,661 Posts
Default

I will not buy a Smith with a lock. I have a 1500# vault its all the lock I need!
  #10  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:00 PM
MP1518 MP1518 is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 824
Likes: 10
Liked 314 Times in 120 Posts
Default

Me and MOST people I know will ONLY buy PRE LOCK/PRE MIM revolvers. UNLESS the revolver I want is not available PRE lock.
Like I am buying a compact 627 8 shot. Or if I wanted a .500 S&W.

If i am looking for another K frame carry revolver , there are plenty of really nice late 70's - early 90's guns for me to buy.
  #11  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:08 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 208
Liked 540 Times in 295 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broker50 View Post
I actually find not having the choice of square butt at least as bad as the IL!
I think that they quit making square butt models sometime during the 1990s, right?
  #12  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:15 PM
murphydog's Avatar
murphydog murphydog is offline
SWCA Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 16,004
Likes: 24
Liked 5,403 Times in 3,382 Posts
Default

I do not have two guns of this era to compare, but I think about 1998 the K frame design was changed to the longer modern version, along with MIM parts and (in centerfires) the switch to the frame-mounted firing pin. The lock didn't come around until 2001-'02.
__________________
Alan
SWCA 2023, SWHF 220
  #13  
Old 04-08-2012, 01:17 PM
Cooter Brown Cooter Brown is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 1,840
Likes: 1,133
Liked 1,483 Times in 611 Posts
Default

That change in the profile of the frame makes what was the most elegant revolver made into something that looks hulky and ungainly.

It's always been my main objection to the lock. It may also be why we don't see new K frames offered without the lock--unless the machining was changed, it would still have that ugly profile.

As was mentioned before, the N frames don't suffer from it.
  #14  
Old 04-08-2012, 02:40 PM
M2MikeGolf's Avatar
M2MikeGolf M2MikeGolf is offline
US Veteran
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 641
Likes: 359
Liked 366 Times in 169 Posts
Default

In case some of you are newcomers and don't know, this is a closed subject; please see the sticky at the top of this sub-forum:

LOCK- ..can't get past "the hole".

For those of you that have been here awhile, you should know better. Please read Lee's comments at the end of that sticky. I concur with his view on the issue and see no good reason to continue the griping about it on the forum.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 04-08-2012, 03:51 PM
andyo5's Avatar
andyo5 andyo5 is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Oro Valley, Arizona
Posts: 1,758
Likes: 208
Liked 540 Times in 295 Posts
Default

I am not a new member, and I most certainly am not griping. I am pointing out something that I did not understand before now. This is NOT a 'hate the lock' thread. I myself own three Smiths with locks. I have not removed the locks; although I have never used. But I could foresee circumstances in which I might want to use the lock.
Examples:
1. I have to leave the gun unattended somewhere, such as in my car or somewhere kids might find it.
2. I want to see if someone whose loyalty is in question might want to pick it up and threaten me with it. Imagine their surprise when I called their bluff! : }

Last edited by andyo5; 04-08-2012 at 05:11 PM.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #16  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:14 PM
stantheman86 stantheman86 is offline
US Veteran
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 2,471
Likes: 6
Liked 430 Times in 216 Posts
Default

I have no problems with the IL S&W's. I love my 66-7,64-8, 64-7 and two 10-14's.

MIM S&W's have a smoother and more even DA pull and are easier to "work", with parts like extended firing pins, Wilson springs, etc. My 10-14 with light springs and an extended firing pin has never failed me and I have put a lot of rounds through it.
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:46 PM
Smee78 Smee78 is offline
Banned
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: SC/TX
Posts: 618
Likes: 339
Liked 78 Times in 52 Posts
Default

Thank goodness the lock police showed up.....Its the internet and we have every right to discuss the lock....I choose to keep and shoot the guns I have and choose to pass on the new lock revolvers. If I want something to wind up I will get an old pair of skates with the key or a wind up car!

S&W and everyone also said the days of no lock guns were dead but look what happens, j frames with out the lock. I will contuine to do my part and tell S&W of my dislike for the lock and mabye one day they will produce other guns with out the lock. I also dont support bussinesses who have the no ccw sign posted, am I suppost to overlook that one also? I think not!

Last edited by Smee78; 04-09-2012 at 12:52 PM.
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 04-09-2012, 12:52 PM
71firebird400's Avatar
71firebird400 71firebird400 is offline
SWCA Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Bellingham, WA
Posts: 525
Likes: 203
Liked 376 Times in 144 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smee78 View Post
Thank goodness the lock police showed up.....Its the internet and we have every right to discuss the lock....I choose to keep and shoot the guns I have and choose to pass on the new lock revolvers. If I want something to wind up I will get an old pair of skates with the key or a wind up car!
Agreed. We're not a bunch of children and we are free to discuss how S&W quality has dropped in recent years along with desperate cost cutting measures that have affected the design of the guns we love. If we don't voice our opinions how is S&W to know that we don't appreciate the lock? Or the MIM parts? I have sent them several emails about it, but they never respond. I figure that maybe they're living in ignorance and don't realize the sub-culture they've created of those who choose only to buy their 'old' guns. I would gladly pay what they want for a new revolver if it had a forged hammer/trigger and did not have the IL!
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 04-09-2012, 02:08 PM
Maximumbob54's Avatar
Maximumbob54 Maximumbob54 is offline
Member
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,208
Likes: 8,759
Liked 1,878 Times in 1,022 Posts
Default

If I understand it right, this is the second growth of that area in question. The first was to add mass for the internal firing pin and the second was for the ILS.
  #20  
Old 04-09-2012, 03:18 PM
handejector's Avatar
handejector handejector is offline
Administrator
Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns. Now I understand why I tend to prefer pre-lock guns to lock guns.  
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 16,977
Likes: 1,309
Liked 17,279 Times in 3,525 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by M2MikeGolf View Post
In case some of you are newcomers and don't know, this is a closed subject; please see the sticky at the top of this sub-forum:

LOCK- ..can't get past "the hole".

For those of you that have been here awhile, you should know better. Please read Lee's comments at the end of that sticky. I concur with his view on the issue and see no good reason to continue the griping about it on the forum.
Thanks.
You said what I said very well.
__________________
Regards,
Lee Jarrett
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
Closed Thread

Tags
617, 627, 629, 642, 66-7, 686, cdnn, j frame, k frame, lock, model 686, round butt, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, smith-wessonforum.com

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
With Drawn**WTS/WTT 2 guns****Please Lock Drm50 GUNS - For Sale or Trade 0 04-27-2015 11:58 PM
SOLD***WTS/WTT 4 Guns********Please Lock Drm50 GUNS - For Sale or Trade 2 04-24-2015 08:22 PM
PC guns with lock, reselling used ? Wayne S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 19 12-23-2011 12:57 AM
STAINLESS PRE-LOCK MTN GUNS - ALL SPF M29since14 GUNS - For Sale or Trade 11 05-12-2010 08:54 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:55 PM.


S-W Forum, LLC 2000-2015
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)