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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 04-09-2012, 10:24 AM
wnc wheelgun wnc wheelgun is offline
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Went to the LGS to try out some new ammo in my 28, when I spied a new four inch 617 in the back of the case for $750. I asked to touch it since I have been looking for a 4 inch K 22 lr revolver for the wife. After reading so much about quality control on the new guns, I knew what to look for. First looked for the canted barrel, yep, there it was. Looked over the cylinder and frame, yep, tooling marks on several of the recessed chambers and small scratches. I figure if I quit looking a nice used one will fall in my lap. Yeah, right.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:29 AM
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What are you trying to tell us?
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:54 AM
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I think he's telling us S&W lost another sale thanks to their lack of QC in current production revolvers...but then I'm a skeptic. I know I wouldn't pay $750 for a new gun with a canted barrel and tool marks in the chambers (and I didn't even mention the IL - lol).

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Old 04-09-2012, 11:10 AM
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Good for you. You did your job as a consumer and did not expect something to be perfect out of the box.

You saved your money and the aggrivation. I hope the dealer sent that gun back rather than selling it to the next guy.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:15 AM
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I hope the dealer sent that gun back rather than selling it to the next guy.
That's funny
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:34 AM
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The 617 will not be sent back by anyone at the LGS, buyer beware. Right beside it was a 17-3 in 97% condition, no extras for $1,200. I already have one, I just wanted the little lady to have her own. What I really should have said in my post was I appreciate the wealth of information I get from this forum. Luckily the 3 new j frames I bought in the early 2000ís, a 60, 649, and a 640 did not have any manufacturing problems. I hope this changes soon, model 18 are scarce around here or unrealistically priced.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:08 PM
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Not to draw flames but check out Ruger's new 4" SP101 .22 LR revolver. It's a lot less than $750 and it will last longer than any of us. The grips are easily changed and would be perfect for the wife as a .22 plinker.

I had a 6" 617 and ended up selling it, I already have a 6" K-22 and the 617 had 2 chambers that didn't carry up. I liked the gun well enough but I just had no desire to keep it. Honestly I plan to put the K-22 away just for occasional shooting and pick up an SP101 or Single Six one of these days.
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Old 04-09-2012, 12:16 PM
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stantheman, pardon my lack of revolver terminology, but what does “carry up” mean? I saw the review of the Ruger 22 lr in a recent American Handgunner, looks like a nice piece, also heard there is quite a backorder on that one already.
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Old 04-09-2012, 03:57 PM
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Not to draw flames but check out Ruger's new 4" SP101 .22 LR revolver. It's a lot less than $750 and it will last longer than any of us. The grips are easily changed and would be perfect for the wife as a .22 plinker.
Ditto on that. You can place an order for one for $519 plus tax at the LGS around here - problem is; Ruger cannot, or is not, shipping them at all. None, nada. Ruger has only shipped two batches; the original 'test' batch of several hundred and one later batch of, maaaayyyybee, a thousand or so. That's it. They are not actively producing them for some reason.

Sooooooo, if I worked at S&W, I would tell you; "$519? Really?!? Well, our price on the 617 is only $450 when WE CAN'T SHIP! But the ones we ACTUALLY CAN sell, we sell for $700ish"

Time will tell what Ruger's problem is.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:22 PM
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Ruger has a backlog of a million guns, give or take, so they're temporarily suspending taking new orders.
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Old 04-09-2012, 04:43 PM
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Feel your pain, OP. Finally got to look at my new 617 4" today at my LGS (ordered from Bud's online), and the barrel was canted as well. Also noted some tool marks, but they were in the ejector shroud. Called Bud's to ask for a replacement, and they were happy to help. Just hope second time's a charm.

Anyone got any idea of how prevalent the canted barrel problem is, specifically with these 617's? Are there any straight barrels being made???
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnc wheelgun View Post
Went to the LGS to try out some new ammo in my 28, when I spied a new four inch 617 in the back of the case for $750. I asked to touch it since I have been looking for a 4 inch K 22 lr revolver for the wife. After reading so much about quality control on the new guns, I knew what to look for. First looked for the canted barrel, yep, there it was. Looked over the cylinder and frame, yep, tooling marks on several of the recessed chambers and small scratches. I figure if I quit looking a nice used one will fall in my lap. Yeah, right.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:22 PM
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Ruger has a backlog of a million guns, give or take, so they're temporarily suspending taking new orders.
You're on the money, GS69. BTW--I have not read any review that speaks well of the Ruger's trigger vs the 617's......
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:39 PM
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Last week I was in a large local Gunshop that had hosted a Smith and Wesson Days. They had 4, 4" 617s and a 5 inch 63 and a 3" 63 in the case to choose from. Every one of the 617s had a huge gap 1/4", between the top of the Crane and the bottom of the barrel area of the frame like they had used the wrong jig to Machine it. As I though about it the crane is probably the same one used on the L frames so the gap is a new parts compatability design feature to reduce production costs.
The "finish" looked like they had been thrown in a bag of gravel and shaken up. One had an uneven barrel crown. The 3 inch 63 failed to carry upon three chambers in Single action with cases inserted. The 5" 63 practically needed a mallet to close it.

Blech, I had to pass on all of them, all brand new no QC what so ever. Very sad and disappointing. I wanted a 4" Kframe 22 as I have 4 six inchers spanning 1956 to 2003. I will have to look for a used one.
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Old 04-09-2012, 10:58 PM
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I would like to see pics of a canted barrel.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:31 PM
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I recently bought a 4" 617, put some Herrets I had on it and am very happy with it. Also have a 6" I've had 2-3 years which I wanted to scope. That has worked out well also. Probably I don't know what to look for as to all these problems but they get shot a lot, are accurate and work perfectly. Triggers are nice. If something goes awry I'll call S&W and it will surely get fixed.
Bo
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:41 AM
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To the OP and others who have told us of all of their recent poor examples of new S&W .22 revolvers found at your LGS: I appreciate your desire for anonymity, but not at least indicating the locale in which the mentioned LGS is located is poor form. It conveys information with little real value. Also, just what is meant by the expression, "... failed to carry upon three chambers... "? Do you mean that the timing was off... on three of eight chambers?

I am not being insensitive to folks poor luck in finding new S&W .22 revolvers - it happens - or so I hear. My new 9/'08 4" 617 and new 11/'10 3" 63 were - and remain - as near perfection as one could expect from a manmade production firearm. The same goes for my ANIB 5" 63 from 9/'09.

I've had the opportunity to A-B a new 4" SP-101 with my 3" 63 last fall. My 3" 63 was smoother, more accurate, and, after a year of quite frequent use, looked newer than the Ruger - which was new. Is it worth nearly a C-note more than the Ruger to buy the 3" 63? Yes! (Hey, what did you expect... it's a S&W site!)

If the OP is near C.A. (Central Alabama!), contact me - I'd gladly meet you and your wife at a local range to evaluate the 3" 63 or 4" 617 re her needs.



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Old 04-10-2012, 11:21 AM
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Thanks for the offer Stainz, my wife loves k frames especially the 6 inch 17-3 I have. If I stumble across a 4 inch 22lr I should be covered if she decides the 6 incher is hers. I showed her my “new” model 10 from 1963 and she wanted to trade her 649 for it. She liked the frame weight and extra round. The search continues.
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Old 04-10-2012, 01:32 PM
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Carry up is the timing of the cylinder, 2 of the chambers stopped short of lock up when the gun was cocked in SA slowly. This is common in heavily used S&W's, under "normal" speed in SA and DA it's not an issue. I have a 67-1 that fails the "slow cocking" carryup test but the gun is fine when used normally.

I am a Ruger fanatic as well as a S&W fan, and I am also frustrated that I can't get a new .22 SP101 or an SR1911. I would be happy for now with a nice, solid used Single Six just to plink around with.
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Old 04-10-2012, 02:12 PM
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Tons of SR1911 on gunbroker.
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Old 04-10-2012, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3Stuart View Post
Ditto on that. You can place an order for one for $519 plus tax at the LGS around here - problem is; Ruger cannot, or is not, shipping them at all. None, nada. Ruger has only shipped two batches; the original 'test' batch of several hundred and one later batch of, maaaayyyybee, a thousand or so. That's it. They are not actively producing them for some reason.

Sooooooo, if I worked at S&W, I would tell you; "$519? Really?!? Well, our price on the 617 is only $450 when WE CAN'T SHIP! But the ones we ACTUALLY CAN sell, we sell for $700ish"

Time will tell what Ruger's problem is.
Interesting, thanks for posting. I picked up an SP101 .22 back in December or January, my shop had one and I spotted it and bought it immediately. No more have shown up and I've not seen any others in the shops, so perhaps this is the reason. Hey, maybe I bought myself a collector's item!!

I have a 6" 617 that I've owned and enjoyed for several years. It is a great shooting gun with a nice trigger. The Ruger is pretty clunky by comparison, although not a bad gun. The trigger is really heavy, pretty awful actually. I suppose it's possible to remedy that, but I've not looked into that yet. I'd love to have a 4" 617. Someday....
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Old 04-10-2012, 07:08 PM
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I think we are spoiled by the smooth triggers on the S&W guns. I traded my Ruger SR9 due to gritty trigger.
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Old 04-18-2012, 08:08 PM
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Hey all,

Newcomer to revolvers here. I have a couple of semi-autos (Beretta 92 and a Kahr CM9) purchased in the last year - my first handguns. Have seen a couple of guys shooting 22 revolvers at the range and I like the look and the idea of shooting 22. So I first got the itch for an SP101, but then I found the 617. That is at the top of my current wish list. The tax man was not too hard on me this year, so I am looking to buy. I am thinking new, as the new price is a lot for me to justify paying, let alone the premium for the older pre-lock models. I would hate to pick up a new gun and then have to immediately return it to SW for repair, so I would like to be able to give it an educated inspection before I walk out the door with it. Can someone educate me what to look for as far as the "canted barrel" and other recently see QC problems? Any kind of quick tests or measurements that I could do while still at the LGS?

Thanks in advance.
Wayne
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:38 AM
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I have a line on a used 617... thanks for the tips regarding what to look for.

6", though... nowadays in Canada minimum barrel length is 4" (unless you're 'grandfathered', which I'm not)
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Old 06-19-2013, 10:54 AM
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Well it's terrible you guys are finding all these poor quality smiths, I bought a 4" 617 a month ago, to keep my 17-6 6" company on trips to the range. I looked it over very carefully for canted barrel, tool marks, defects and finding none took it home. Glad I did it's a tack driver!!
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Old 03-04-2014, 10:07 AM
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Excuse me for digging this out but do these problems discribed above also occur on M 617no dash?

What about the overall quality of the 617ND guns?
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Old 03-04-2014, 12:04 PM
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I owned a 6 inch and a 4 inch no dash 617 and both of them were problem free. I sold the 6 inch and kept the 4 inch because I liked the way it balanced better.

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Old 03-04-2014, 12:38 PM
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Search for an early 4" "no-dash" !
It is worth the extra effort and in my case cheaper than a new one !



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Old 03-04-2014, 01:12 PM
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See you could have avoided all these problems by making a deal for the 17-3. Not for $1200 though, that's nuts. Maybe offer $100 more than the canted 617.
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:01 PM
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Default Explain a canted barrel to me please...

I got a 617 4" from Buds Guns. Tell me what to look for. This is my 1st wheel gun and I've run about 150 rnds through it. How do I find the defects/deficiencys? Seems to be working fine. Thanks Joe
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Old 07-23-2015, 11:30 PM
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Looks like it's Throwback Thursday!
Joebklyn, check out the stickies and the "notable threads." And, here's a link to a pretty well written revolver checkout guide, courtesy of Jim March:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6F...wNmY4NzM2/view

Best bet is clean it, take it to the range, and see how it shoots. It's already yours and in your possession, so as long as there is no glaring deficiency, it will really tell you more to be shooting it. After all, that's what it's for, right?



ETA, you can use the search function at the top right of the page if you are looking for something specific, ie, "canted barrel" Pro'ly a few hundred threads on that by now
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Old 07-24-2015, 01:20 AM
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A couple weeks ago I was at a local gun store with a huge selection of S&W revolvers. I checked out two different 4" 617s (I wanted the best in the shop) and both were perfect. The one I bought was made just this last March. I suppose they have good days and bad ones.
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Old 07-25-2015, 12:35 AM
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New gun defects can be cosmetic or mechanical in nature (that affects function).
The cosmetic ones not every buyer will call it out but if the gun does not function everyone would reject it.

In the age of more computers, CNC machining and automation many issues seem to slip thru the cracks or are passed along. It sometimes makes me wonder how those beautiful five screw guns were made with pinned barrels and everything looked flawless on standard grade guns back in the day.

The up side is S&W will make it right if you buy the gun and I would not let a minor flaw or problem steer me away from the gun I really want. Buy it and make them make it right on their dime. If warranty costs increase to a certain level they will likley take corrective action.
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Old 07-27-2015, 12:52 AM
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Going to an LGS tomorrow to look at new 4" and 6" 617 that just arrived. Keeping my fingers crossed that they have straight barrels and no scratches. Would probably prefer the 4" but might buy the 6" if it looks better.
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Old 04-16-2017, 10:27 AM
Creeker Shooter Creeker Shooter is offline
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Originally Posted by Dave T View Post
I think he's telling us S&W lost another sale thanks to their lack of QC in current production revolvers...but then I'm a skeptic. I know I wouldn't pay $750 for a new gun with a canted barrel and tool marks in the chambers (and I didn't even mention the IL - lol).

Dave
What is a canted barrel? Thanks.
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  #36  
Old 04-16-2017, 11:37 AM
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What is a canted barrel? Thanks.
Link to one hundred forum threads on canted barrels.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:25 PM
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Buy an older m17 or k22 and dont look back!
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:05 PM
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The above advice is very good, but it doesn't have to be real old. My 617-6 (with IL) shoots like a rifle. No problems. It will hold it's own along side my 17-4.

The Only problem with the Ruger SP101's in 22RF I heard about is the functioning. Several sources report any new one needs to be disassembled and all the metal filings cleaned out then the burrs stoned off. The the trigger needs to be redone. Just add all that work cost to the retail price and you have paid more than the S&W. I like Rugers, and just bought another LCPII last week, but the 22 revolver needs help.
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:17 PM
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Default 617-6 Quality Control

There's been a lot posted lately about the quality of the Model 617-6's (especially the lack of it) and the general theme seems to be these guns should be avoided. I ordered mine in the first week of February through my local gun store, and received it the next week, so this example is of fairly recent manufacture. The factory ship date is 08/31/16. I have had exactly NO problems with fit, finish, extraction, accuracy, or anything else I can think of. In other words, I think it's possible that there are many more perfect examples of this model being released from the factory than there are imperfect ones. Just a theory of mine.
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:41 PM
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This may be blasphemy, but I bought my daughter (she was 15 this past Christmas) a Heritage Arms .22/.22 magnum SA revolver, as she loved shooting my K22 Masterpiece; 1st time shooter and hit target 11 of 12 times at 25 yds. with the S&W. It is the best $200 I've spent in a long time. Not 1 problem and very accurate. Great gun for killing empty beer cans and defenseless pieces of paper! When she gets older and more serious, she'll get a nice revolver or semi if she wishes. Just a thought if you have a beginner in the family. Peace, Jeff T., PGH PA
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Old 04-17-2017, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jeffrefrig View Post
This may be blasphemy, but I bought my daughter (she was 15 this past Christmas) a Heritage Arms .22/.22 magnum SA revolver, as she loved shooting my K22 Masterpiece; 1st time shooter and hit target 11 of 12 times at 25 yds. with the S&W. It is the best $200 I've spent in a long time. Not 1 problem and very accurate. Great gun for killing empty beer cans and defenseless pieces of paper! When she gets older and more serious, she'll get a nice revolver or semi if she wishes. Just a thought if you have a beginner in the family. Peace, Jeff T., PGH PA
+1 on the Heritage Arms .22 ! I bought one myself for a can plinker and it is a nice tight revolver no slop when the hammer is back. Haven't tried the .22 Mag cylinder yet.
I looked at a new 617 last week and it seemed OK but the barrel wasn't finished as well as the frame and the price was $799!
Also there was a new Ruger SP-101 8 shot revolver and the darn ejector would hardly move without banging it on the counter!
Maybe just me but there is just something about spending 600-800 bucks for a .22 can plinker...especially when they don't function!
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:40 AM
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The canted barrel is not a new problem. In the early seventies, I bought a new 6" 17 that had to have the rear sight cranked all the way to one side to get zero at 25 yards. I was in the gun at distributor, so I shipped it at about wholesale and let someone else worry about the warranty.

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Jack
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22lr, 617, 640, 649, beretta, ejector, k-22, kahr, lock, model 10, recessed, ruger, scope, shroud, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, sp101

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