I used to be on this forum but have not been here for a while.

What is the opinion on quality of the new revolvers?

Of course I like the older revolvers, but just looking for opinions. I like many of the new models.

There have been quite a few people up here complaining about the quality of the new ones in terms of canted barrels and tool marks in the steel that in the past wouldn't have been there. I don't buy new ones so I have no first hand experience with the issues. I'm just reporting what I read up here.

I have two new (IL) ones and couldn't be happier with them. I also have older Smiths back to 1902. Gotta love the warranty on the new guns, too.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

That depends on what you call "new". I bought a 625 5" in 2006 and a 625 mountain gun in 2007 both guns new both no problems. I bought a 642-1 Pro model in 2010 which was supposed to be cut for moon clips but was not. I returned it to the store the same day and they replaced it with one that was correct. I have had no problems since. I have 41 smiths and only these 3 have been produced in the last 6 years. I am not against buying current production if it meets my need/desire; but I really like 50s vintage Smiths the best.

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Revolver luvin' Mountaineer

As with all modern manufacturing cutting costs has become the primary concern to maximize profit for the investors. That being said one of the first things to go when cutting costs is skilled labor, no longer will you find the attention to detail that firearms manufactures used to have, its all about getting more units to market, not making sure every unit is perfect.

Over the just the last 30 years technology has yielded many improvements in metallurgy and machining, so there is a tradeoff. New guns use stronger steels with more consistent computer controlled machining. What most of us gripe about is firearms manufacturing is no longer thought of as an Art the way it used to be, with craftsmen striving for perfection, it more about workers hitting production quotas.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

"What most of us gripe about is firearms manufacturing is no longer thought of as an Art the way it used to be, with craftsmen striving for perfection,it more about workers hitting production quotas."

Sir, I believe that best sums up the entire issue.

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Proud anachronism

I've had less than stellar performance this year from two of my S&W guns... One was manufactured less than a year ago and the other one in 1984.

Maybe the good gun/bad gun manufacturing wave is cyclic.

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

I picked up a new M&P 340 (no IL) that had a problem with the cylinder sliding off the yoke when I cleaned it, although it functioned fine. It was returned to S&W and I had it back in a week - no further problems. Smith stands behind their products.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I've not had any trouble with close to dozen new smiths, the old days are gone, the old guns are gone, if you inspect before you buy I think you'll be happy with a new Smith, I know I am but I'm a shooter, not a nitpicking collector, hope this helps

Personally, I like all S&W revolvers but, while traveling with my son yesterday I saw a 657 M/G in a store not far from home. My first thought was to try and trade my 57-0 for this(I own a 629-4 M/G already and love it). but saner minds prevailed and I never mentioned it to the owner. Now, stainless is better than carbon steel for anyone who spends time in our great outdoors, in my opinion but, that damn round butt stuff(I'll never figure out how S&W came up with it's a better feel than square butt). Gun didn't have that God ugly pimple on it's side but, don't want another N frame with round butt configuration.
Steve

I have bought a couple of S&W's newer revolvers, a 686SSR and a 386NG and couldn't be happier. The 386NG is my off-duty carry. The fitting of the side plate and cylinder yoke is some of the finest, tightest I'ver seen, the workmanship is outstanding.
Also No, I haven't had any of the mythical, magically delicious lock malfunctions that are vomited all over the internet. They are great guns and heck, I trust my life to one, that says it all dosen't it?

For me its simple.

I will NOT buy any revolver that has MIM parts and a lock, if I can get one used that is pre mim/lock.

I will sometimes buy one with MIM parts but NO LOCK.

I feel the same way. I have two round-butt 629-4s, a 6.5" Classic and a 5" Classic DX, and I much prefer the square butt. So much so that I bought a 6" 629-1 two weeks ago. Their stocks look like they were made FOR them, not converted TO them, and they just feel better in my hand. I'm an olde phart and also prefer grooved backstraps over smooth ones.

What others have said about declining quality in goods is spot-on. In some fields - automobile manufacturing, for example - robotics and computer-driven equipment has resulted in better products but something small that requires precise fitting and can be held in the hand for close inspections often exhibits deteriorating quality.

I like Smith & Wesson products a lot but I will continue to buy older square-butt, non-MIM, no-lock guns that are in like-new condition. I just feel I am getting more bang for my buck (pun intended).

Ed

I own quite a few vintage S&W's, however I've bought a few ( M-24-M-25-M21 and M-22 and maybe I've been lucky as all had no real issues, shoot very well and I really do not think the IL is an issue with all steel N frames. What I do like about these new one's are two fold, one, I am supporting S&W and two, I can shoot the and carry the snot out of them without worrying about the dreaded "vintage vapor's".

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Stay safe people!

Up until two days ago I totally agreed with MP1518's first statement. Now I have to agree with his second as well. To get the features I wanted I had to accept MIM parts. Thankfully it doesn't have the (expletive deleted) lock. See, I can compromise...really!

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I went to a big gun store and got to paw a few of their new Smith and Wesson revolvers.

The ones I sampled were in beautiful condition and completely straight barrels.

If you read other forums catering to other gun brands, you will find all of them have people saying how great <insert gun manufacturer here> "used to be".

I bought a new Ruger GP100 a few months ago and the cylinder crane was warped. I shipped it back to SR and they fixed it up very nicely.

Ditto! In the last 10 years bought two new 629's, two 500's, two 41's, one 329, two 617's, one 586, and just ordered a 317 Airlite.
Had zero issues with any of them and the actions and trigger pulls are better than any I owned back in the 70's.

Maybe S&W has lost their collector appeal but they sure have not lost the ability to make a quality accurate handgun. I am 59. All my guns go hunting or shooting and have zero value to me for being a collectable.

I think it all depends on how long a person has been into S&Ws? I've been a fan for several decades. I'm an ol' fart also, 63 this August. But, to each his own. I try not to buy Chinese junk either.
Steve

I have had a dozen or so from the mid '70s to mid 80's, and they weren't so hot, in total. I realize that was the Bangor Punta era, so maybe not the best sampling.
Of late, a 342 PD and a 627 PC are among the most well made revolver's I have ever handled. But one was a PC, so that should be expected.

Your gonna love that 317, I bought the kitgun version has a sub caliber to go with my 329's, this gun is a whole bunch of fun to shoot, mine is a constant companion and I hope you enjoy yours has much has I do mine

I bought a new 686 4" in Feb. Love this gun. Really happy with it.

I bought a Model 58 Classic 4" Nickle at S&W on Pres day and they had it 30% off the 2009 MSRP...Soooo $520 for an N Frame...New...the Nickle plate is as good as any of my older Nickle guns..it shoots Awesome...I probably wouldnt have gotten it if it was over 600...but im glad i did

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Winchester~Smith & Wesson~<3

I am sure I will. Wanted a 63 as long as I could remember but always talked myself out of it thinking it cost to much for it's size, lol.
Have a love for small .22's and also own a Beretta Bobcat which is a super nice pistol for the money as well as a NAA BLack Widow.

As someone who works in a factory... I can vouch for that. Quality is second to making your investors happy. To make investors happy you need to have a lot of inventory moving out the door very quickly and as cheaply as possible. And I have heard its about the same in most factories.

Purchase your new Smith from a real gun store that cares what they sell. I purchased my 629 from J&R LLC in Livermore because they check their guns before it goes on sale. If it's not right, J&R will send it back to Smith themselves before selling a defective weapon. My 686SSR was purchased at Reeds in Santa Clara and they obviously don't care or don't know what they are selling. My 686SSR is going back to Smith for the FTF and a ccanted barrel.

I don't own dozens of S & W revolvers and am not a collector, but the latest purchase was a MOD 642 airweight. 'Couldn't be better. Flawless fit and finish and a good shooter. This is a very good seller and apparently they have gotten the aluminum casting and heat treating down to a science, but it is hard to understand how the scandium/titanium guns are $300-400 bucks more. Maybe with volume sales they have pefected the process. The safety lock doesn't bother me; I just ignore it. looks like fly poo on the frame.

Here is my 625-8 PC. 10 shots one handed at 50 feet. I am very happy. I also have a 500 S&W with 500+ rounds fired no lock issues yet.

I love my 2 10-14's, and my 64-7, 66-7, and 64-8........

I wouldn't hesitate to buy every new S&W on my wish list, a "Classic" Model 58, 4" 27 and a 4" 586.

I bought a new 6" 686 in Jan. I used it as my choice for qualifying two weeks ago in my CCW class. 50 rounds of rapid fire double action style. It got so hot the cylinder was touchy to load and unload. Destroyed the center out of that 'ole target. Not the first hiccup or any other issue. It might have a freckle with a hole in it (IL) but the darn thing is a beauty and it works like a charm. Needless to say, I am happy with mine.

I've been a S&W fan since pre-1961 when I bought my first one. I only buy the old ones now whenever I run across a nice one at a fair price. They are getting harder and harder to find. I don't, and won't, own any of the newer ones with the lock. As mentioned by others, quality has declined significantly as the older craftsmen have long since retired and the bean-counters are now in charge of the asylum.

I'm a young buck comparatively, 28, but I've been in and around the industry for the better part of my life. I have seen some gross QC issues that S&W sent out on newer production guns to include one of their newer model 2 piece barrels on a 686 snub go bouncing down the range while working at a pistol range back in CA. I own several Smith wheelguns and all are pre-lock and only 1 has MIM parts. To me its not just the lock that keeps me away from the new revolvers they are putting out but its the quality control issues. I won't buy a gun that I might one day have to bet my life on if I think that there is a chance that it could cost me that. I'll stick with my older model Smiths and if I can't find one when I'm looking I'll just keep the money in the bank.

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Son of a Gun...Smith

I bought my wife a Lady Smith 357 and myself a 640-3 357. Both are reasonably accurate for guns with 2" barrels. They are a little pricey but have excellent workmanship and are good looking guns.

I have 30 S&W revolvers of different eras from late '40 to the present.
Of these, I find the pre-lock MIM guns to be tightest and smoothest overall. They just feel more "precise".
As mentioned, this is likely due to the precision of modern CNC machining and MIM moulding techniques.
A few examples of this breed are:

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Other than the model 1905, all the guns in my collection were made in 2010, 2011 or 2012. Some have just a few hundred rounds, others many thousand. While I can't compare them to many older S&Ws, I can say they have all shot reliably and accurately with no problems.

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I don't see why people complain about the lock. It can be removed and the hole plugged if so desired for a relatively small cost.
And the MIM parts have been used for a long time (around 20 years or so) without any problems that I know of. Just can't see why anyone would not buy a Smith with MIM parts since they seem to work just as good as the forged parts. I have both and am very satisfied with the performance of each.
So, what is the problem with MIM parts? Do they not last as long? Do they fail?

There is NOTHING wrong with properly made MIM parts and Smith can make good MIM. People who are opposed to change resent them. Don

Back in the old days, when men were men, the flintlock revolvers and rifles served us well for over 150 years. Then "new" improvements came, like the percussion cap....how stupid was that. Then shortly after the percussion cap, they changed to cartridges, go figure. Back in the good ole days, you could not swap parts on similar guns. Every one was unique. Is the artistry gone, maybe to some, but instead of one person creating YOUR special gun, the thought, engineering and effort goes into the design, and development of the machinery, tooling and the manufacturing of the firearms. Remember, the type of folks that created the infamous "lock" on the S&W revolvers, also created items like the space shuttle, satelites, AR-15, M-60, F-22, B-1 & Stealth Bomber, F-18 (my personal favorite) and the M1 Abrams Tank. These folks create jobs.

I recently picked up a 629 PC and was very happy with the fit, finish, accuracy, and action. Considering it was a PC, you would expect first rate quality considering the price.

Well, you're partly right, but, IMHO, 'investors' is a device used by managers to shift blame for their own screwups to some faceless entity. I have a ton of experience in modern corporations and I just have to chime in and clarify this issue;

Again, IMHO, Management doesn't give a tinker's darn about the investors, all they care about is making their bonus. Management is responsible for the continued use of the IL, MIM parts, shoddy quality, etc. Don't blame anybody but management for anything you don't like about current S&W products.

Back to the OP's question; it's a mixed bag. Be sure you can examine the product before accepting it. Know what to look for. Caveat Emptor.

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But then, what do I know?

I just sold off the last of my newer S&W guns. From the finish coming off to the cracked fames. Lock or no lock the quality of the newer guns sucks. There I said it. Even some of there P.C. guns leave the factory with problems. I'm glad some of you guys love you newer guns. This is not just my opinion it come from my experience with them. Shame on me for keep going back buying them hoping to get a good one. I love Smith & Wesson's and I'll keep buying the older ones that were made when people took a little pried in what they made. Yea there were a few bad eggs back then but Nothing like now. From the fit and finish to the parts used it's not even close. God knows I tried I just can't deal with it anymore. But that's just me.    

I recently bought a 642 airweight with the fancy wood grips for my wife and so far am perfectly happy with it. Fit and finish is nice EXCEPT that the trigger has a blackish "stain" on it. Not sure if that's normal for a new aluminum frame revolver. That said, I'm a shooter, not so much a collector and it shoots great.

It's definitely not as cool as my 686-2 but it's a nice office gun for my wife and she loves it

Great point.

The whole IL/MIM ordeal reminds me of the Volkswagen crowd. Everyone hates Super Beatles for various reasons, mainly though because it was a shake-up in a classic design that lasted 30 years with little change.

Both of my new S&W's have the lock. It's not pretty, but on beautiful guns, it's easy to ignore. Until I see proof that new production and MIM is less reliable, rather than seeing nothing more than anecdotal tales, I'll continue to buy new.

My new S&W's are great shooters.

To each their own.

My new 500 is great.
But, I do see how quality control seems to be lacking.
The cylinder has a large rough looking section (deep in metal, yet smooth as the rest).
I was just going to live with it, but now that my 2 month old 500 is spitting lead enough to occasionally cut my left cheek, as well as having to use a wooden dowel rod to remove the occasional stuck case, I just sent the gun back to have them correct all 3 issues.

Is this type cosmetic flaw considered normal now?

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It's a free country, we have the choice to buy used or new, you can choose to shoot an M&P from 1901 or a brand new 686+, or anything else you want

I have a good variety of everything, my oldest swing-out cylinder S&W is from 1921, the newest from 2010.

My biggest and only gripe with the newest S&W revolvers is the shorter firing pins they had to use to satisfy the "drop safe" requirements for states like CA and others. My 64-7 sets off every single type of ammo I have used in it, but my 64-8 has the "CA firing pin" and has had issues with some hard primer ammo.

A new firing pin is a 2 minute drop in replacement, other than that, all my new S&W's are dead on for timing, have smooth actions, and are tackdrivers.

NO, send it back, you have other issues besides cosmetics. They pay shipping both ways, you need to call them.

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Sure you did

I have three new Smiths a 442, M&P9c and a 4" 629.

I did shop the used market for a 4" 629-4 but I couldn't find one for less then retail on a new one...now I now why.

The 629 didn't unlock smoothly on three cylinders since day one and the cylinder notches peened after about 200 rounds of DA fire with mild cast loads.

Two different gunsmiths looked at it, one said the ratchets were really rough the other said the hole in the ejector rod was out of round. One gunsmith said you've been shooting DA, hence the peening.

The cylinder throats on the new 629's seem to be really tight, making shooting cast more of challenge, although it's not doing too bad with .429" bullets.

I sent the gun back about 3 weeks ago and S&W sent me a letter early this week saying it will be gone for another 2-3 weeks, shipping it out FedX was relatively painless since there is a FedX world shipping center nearby.

Even though I don't like or want the locks, until I can find some older models and the willingness to pay full retail or higher for them I'll have to live with what I have for now.

The M&P9c and the 442 are so far so good and I do have a few rounds through them, especially the M&P.

But I am on the lookout for a used 4" 629-4, if and when I find one I'll compare the two and then keep the better shooter.

Even though they've been no trouble so far when I get chance I may do away with the darn locks.

Hindsight being 20/20 if I had to do it over I would pay the premium price being asked for the older model revolvers.