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Old 05-17-2012, 12:24 PM
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Default Best 22lr ammo for short barrel revolver BUG

Let me start by saying that I already own a 357 snub, and I bought a 22lcr for cheap practice and fun plinking. NOT for use as a primary defensive weapon. In fact, it probably wouldn't ever be used in a defensive capacity, as I've got a 9mm S&W M&P as well. I'd rather this thread not turn into a 10 page re-hashing of the internet's oldest gun discussion ("22lr, is it good for personal defense?" lol). I realize 22lr is far less than optimal as a defensive round unless its THE ONLY ROUND YOU CAN POSSIBLY CARRY. But, as a fun thought exercise, let's say my 357 snub fails, and my 9mm semi auto fails, and the only gun left in my safe is the 22 snub revolver lol.

In that instance, what would you have in it (other than CCI, since some people apparently have had trouble with CCI ammo in their LCR... even though I know some version of a CCI 22lr is going to be a lot of peoples' first selections, probably better to not risk the possibility that mine is one of the CCI-sensitive ones for a smidge more muzzle energy).

Seems like Jeff @ gunblast has great luck with remington yellow jackets.
Smith & Wesson Model 317 .22 Kit Gun
Ruger's New LCR 22 Revolver

Another thing that came to mind was the Remington viper, with the thinking that the velocity loss from the short barrel might necessitate a solid point to get any kind of half decent penetration?

(and yes, I know I'm asking about a 22lcr on a S&W forum, but I figured this would be a great place to go because there are a lot of knowledgeable people who have a ton of experience with short barreled revolvers here, and the info that gets shared should be relevant for the 43c/317/etc owners )


Anyway, thoughts? Give me your insight and wisdom!

Last edited by spotch; 05-17-2012 at 12:59 PM.
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:54 PM
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CCI Velocitors or Stingers. When I have to, I'll load up alternating chambers with Velocitors and Remington Vipers. Check your POA vs POI it will be different from other hi velocity rounds.

P.S. I recently saw a youtube video where a guy shot a roast beef at 300 yards with Velocitors in a 10/22 and the round penetrated 5". Naturally, I wouldn't expect anywhere near that performance in any handgun, but it does illustrate the performance of the velocitors.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:49 PM
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Raw or cooked? Frozen? I ask that in seriousness, since raw would be tougher than cooked, and frozen even more so. I am not sure of the velocity off hand, but I would not be surprised to find that the velocity from the 10/22 at 300 yards is not much different from that provided by a 2" revolver at 3-5 yards.
I suspect I would want a good solid point, as much like a SWC as possible, so that there is a real chance of penetration to the vitals. A lot of the target zone on a human is covered by bone.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:55 PM
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My choice would definetely not be anything from Remington! I have had more duds in Remington than all other brands,My 1st choice in a defensive round would be CCI's Stingers,If no CCI's it would likely be something from Federal.
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Old 05-17-2012, 03:57 PM
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I would find someone who bought a bunch of Rem Golden Bullet .22LR and found that it was horrible in their semi-auto, and try and get it cheap for practice. I shoot mostly Win followed by Fed.

As far as carry load, I would probably go with a 40 gr Target load or similar. The most important quality is not penetration, but reliable ignition with the rimfire. I would find the most reliable .22 LR and then see which of those hits to POA. With bulk .22LR, the duds seem to be of a higher ratio.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:24 PM
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I carry a 3" m317 or a2" m34 as defensive / small game getter while trout fishing . Two snake loads followed by the 36gr. Federal classic. The ammo works excellent in my622 and
22a.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:24 PM
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Sorry OP, You made your point clear that your .22lr choice was Not for Defensive purpose...

OK, I have a Colt New Frontier 4" and 2 pistols. They all shoot something better than the next. For example my Colt really likes standard velocity CCI. My Wife's SIG hates them. Her Walther P22 will eat everything and give you results.
Go to Walmart and pick yourself up a bunch of brands and see what shoots best for your firearm. Best advice I can give. It's not like it's going to break your bank.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:26 PM
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Aguila SSS 60 grain

Unstable, the long bullet tumbles making it the next best thing to a .38
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:15 PM
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I use CCI Stingers when all I've taken into the woods is my Mod 34 or SP101 in LR. However, I also like the Remington Yellow Jacket and it functions well in some of my more finicky semi-autos (Iver Johnson TP22).

As mentioned already, the Remington does have a higher DUD rate than other brands, but I find that is with the bulk packs and not with the more premium stuff (only from my personal experience).

Try several different loads in your gun and see what you can trust in THAT gun and what you can't (that's the great thing about the LR, you can afford to shoot a lot of it)
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:43 PM
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Personally I would go with whatever sort of flat pointed solid shot best in it. Expansion will likely be very iffy, so accuracy and reliability is key. Maybe some CCI SGB or Remington Vipers? The Aguila SSS has a definite charm if it will stabilize enough to be somewhat accurate.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:13 PM
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A .22 that hits does more good than a .44 that misses!
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:23 PM
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thanks for the responses so far y'all!

Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvergeek View Post
Personally I would go with whatever sort of flat pointed solid shot best in it. Expansion will likely be very iffy, so accuracy and reliability is key. Maybe some CCI SGB or Remington Vipers? The Aguila SSS has a definite charm if it will stabilize enough to be somewhat accurate.

Yeah, I was actually wondering about Aguila... not just the SSS but the interceptor and supermax as well.
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Old 05-17-2012, 07:21 PM
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The most powerful 40 grain 22LR ammo is Aguila Interceptor. Out does the Stinger and Velocitor.

Accurate out of my S&W 63.
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:19 PM
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Put this in your "for what it's worth" drawer. I bought a Kimber Rimfire Target conversion kit for my Kimber Stainless Gold Match II. Kimber recommends CCI MiniMags, a 36-grain or 40-grain copper-plated bullet at 1,260fps. I have several bricks of Federal load #712, a 38-grain copper-plated bullet at 1,260fps on hand, so I used that. The slide would not travel rearward enough to eject empties and feed fresh rounds, so I called Kimber. They thought my ammo should work fine in the kit and asked that I send it to them.

I did and they called to tell me it worked fine for them. We discussed ammo again and they said if it still didn't work right, I was to return my gun with the kit installed.

It didn't function any better but before returning it again, I bought a box of CCI MiniMags to try. They work flawlessly! I can only assume, and Kimber agrees with the logic, that the CCI ammo uses a faster-burning powder that generates enough pressure in a 5" barrel to cycle the action while the Federal ammo with identical ballistics might use a slower-burning powder more suited for rifles.

Long story short, a consistently complete powder burn usually yields more consistent velocity and better accuracy.

Ed
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Old 05-17-2012, 08:57 PM
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CCI SGB is a good choice for reliable ignition and good penetration.
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Old 05-17-2012, 11:22 PM
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My Ruger Super Single Six is not picky but it really shoots Federal American Eagle 36 gr. Hollowpoints accurately. Though this is a cheaper round and it burns dirtier than some, it shoots very accurately and has been my go to .22 lr. for twenty years or more and has accounted for more dead creatures than any gun I have over a variety of ranges and conditions. When that revolver comes out, things die. That kind of performance builds confidence... Clean Break
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:07 AM
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I think we are on the same sheet of music.

I have both an LCR-22 and an LCR-357.

My LCR-22 works fine with Federal 550 PAK, and comparible ammo. Easy Ejection, and no function issues.

With CCI Stingers which I carry in my LCR-22, Ejection takes more effort. You need to wrap the ejector rod briskly, as the cases are stuck in the cylinder fairly tight. Not a big problem, and they function fine.

CCI Velocitors lock the cylinder up tight on the first shot. Experimenting with them is Over.

So far I have not tryed any other loads.

NOTE: I am practicing Speed Strip reloads with the LCR-22, as well as getting in Economical Quality Trigger Time.
I am using Tuff Products Model 1022 Quick Strips in Orange. I am loading the speed strips in pairs leaving a shell out between pairs for cylinder clearance. Note: The Orange Quick Strips are easier to find on the ground after a Practice reload.
This is how the ammo looks in the Speed Strip: OOxOOxOOxO
As you can see the Model 1022 Speed Strip loaded in this manner will only hold 7 rounds. I index the cylinder with the empty chamber under the hammer when I close the cylinder.
Loading your LCR-22 or 43C with speed strips is great practice for reloading your J Frame 38/357 or LCR 38/357.

Bob
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Old 05-18-2012, 07:35 AM
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I'll stick with CCI Stingers in my 3" 63. They have been reliable and eject easily - at least the first three or four cylinders full. By the time you get a box of fifty through it, ejecting gets more deliberate - and subsequent Federal bulk 36gr HP use loads a bit harder than usual, too. CCI Velocitors and Stingers just leave residue. I've shot 400+ rounds of those Federals between cleanings with no problems. I love my 3" 63 - great revolver. I got to A-B it with a friend's new .22 SP-101 last fall - no thank you! I replaced my Rugers years ago with S&W. Super happy... but what would you expect on a S&W forum?

If you cannot use Stingers, I'd opt for the heaviest solid nosed ammo you know will work reliably with your .22 revolver.

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Old 05-18-2012, 08:05 AM
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The Aguila SSS are pretty deadly, they hit like low velocity .32's. But I want reliability, which I wouldn't trust from Aguila, so I would go with one of the premium brands that come in the 50-packs like Stinger.
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doug M. View Post
Raw or cooked? Frozen? I ask that in seriousness, since raw would be tougher than cooked, and frozen even more so. I am not sure of the velocity off hand, but I would not be surprised to find that the velocity from the 10/22 at 300 yards is not much different from that provided by a 2" revolver at 3-5 yards.
I suspect I would want a good solid point, as much like a SWC as possible, so that there is a real chance of penetration to the vitals. A lot of the target zone on a human is covered by bone.
Raw & unfrozen.

.22LR LETHALITY - 300 Yard Ballistics Test - YouTube
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Old 05-18-2012, 09:51 AM
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I have a S & W model 63 and I was amazed how fussy it was about ammo. Several brands would have the brass back out a bit from the chamber and would prevent the cylinder from rotating.

So, your revolver may have something to say about what you feed it.

But I would be disinclined to carry any rim fire gun as a back up. Of all the ammo I've ever shot, the rim fire has been the least reliable. They rely on centrifugal force to get the primer in the rim--not a perfect process in my opinion. Pretty good, but far less reliable than any center fire ammo. I'd rather carry a .32 from Keltec than a .22 revolver.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spotch View Post
thanks for the responses so far y'all!

Yeah, I was actually wondering about Aguila... not just the SSS but the interceptor and supermax as well.
I tried the Interceptor out of a couple short barreled 22s (a Ber 21A and a 34 2" ) and was very disappointed in it. Lots of unburned powder residue, lower blast than expected, felt more like standard velocity than hyper. It would not cycle the 21A reliably. Maybe I had a bad batch, I don't know, but it seemed like it was optimized to work better in longer barrels than short.

Velocitors are powerful (relatively speaking) and have shot well in all of my guns so far. Stingers have generally been pretty good performers also, but they can make quite a flash and boom out of a 2" gun. This can be good or bad depending on your goal. They don't sound like a .22 and draw a lot of attention, so that can be good in an emergency situation, but they also can be pretty hard on the ears for more mundane shooting.

That is the joy of rimfires though; ammo is still cheap enough to try lots of different loads and see what the guns really like.
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Old 05-18-2012, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revolvergeek View Post
...That is the joy of rimfires though; ammo is still cheap enough to try lots of different loads and see what the guns really like.
True. But check out the cost of .22 rimfire magnums. They seem to cost like center fire ammo. Strange.
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Old 05-18-2012, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobR1 View Post
I think we are on the same sheet of music.

I have both an LCR-22 and an LCR-357.

My LCR-22 works fine with Federal 550 PAK, and comparible ammo. Easy Ejection, and no function issues.

With CCI Stingers which I carry in my LCR-22, Ejection takes more effort. You need to wrap the ejector rod briskly, as the cases are stuck in the cylinder fairly tight. Not a big problem, and they function fine.

CCI Velocitors lock the cylinder up tight on the first shot. Experimenting with them is Over.

So far I have not tryed any other loads.

NOTE: I am practicing Speed Strip reloads with the LCR-22, as well as getting in Economical Quality Trigger Time.
I am using Tuff Products Model 1022 Quick Strips in Orange. I am loading the speed strips in pairs leaving a shell out between pairs for cylinder clearance. Note: The Orange Quick Strips are easier to find on the ground after a Practice reload.
This is how the ammo looks in the Speed Strip: OOxOOxOOxO
As you can see the Model 1022 Speed Strip loaded in this manner will only hold 7 rounds. I index the cylinder with the empty chamber under the hammer when I close the cylinder.
Loading your LCR-22 or 43C with speed strips is great practice for reloading your J Frame 38/357 or LCR 38/357.

Bob

yeah that sucks about the velocitors. Weird. I've heard as much. I've got speed strips on my wish list at midway now
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Old 09-30-2012, 08:22 AM
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My 21-A favors the Interceptor. Starting with a clean lubed gun I have fired 350 rounds in one session with zero malfunctions. No cleaning or extra lube during the session just rapid fire. I have never had a misfire with the Interceptor.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcub View Post
Aguila SSS 60 grain

Unstable, the long bullet tumbles making it the next best thing to a .38
This is the way you would want to go. Buy a bulk pack and carry-on.
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Old 09-30-2012, 06:09 PM
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As far as 22 ammo goes, for practice, I'll use anything cheap that also goes bang. I bought a number of bricks of 22LR Remington 40 grn Golden Bullet before 1990 when they were around$10 a brick. Found that bullet was the most consistently reliable round out of any 22 I used, including a Beretta 21A that I carried on occasion. I didn't imagine that a hollow point out of a sub 2-inch barrel would even think about expanding, so I didn't worry about them. Fast forward 18-20 years and with kids to teach, I finally shot up my stock of Remington. I bought a couple of 550-pack Remington hollow points and found every bullet in both boxes was loose in the case. Pretty much all of them went bang, however. A later purchase found all bullets were tight. Go figure. I keep reading that CCS Stingers and Mini Mags are the most reliable now days, but have not personally experienced them. I want to say they didn't work well out of my Beretta 20 years ago, but I don't remember why. The one thing I did notice was that the Remingtons today are alot cleaner than they were 20 years ago. I can go a lot more cylinders from my 18 or 34 without having the ejection getting sticky as often as it used to. My dad loves the Aguila stuff, but I've never played with it. His 22s are the Jennings J22, the Beretta 21A, S&W 63, and most recently a couple of Walther P22s.

My best advise with the LCR is to go play with brands and see what your revolver favors and what seems to be the most consistently reliable. Also remember that RF is just like centerfire - each factory can get out of whack once in a while and turn out some ****. As long as the DA pull and hammer smack of your Ruger stays relatively close to factory specs, you should bust primers consistently. In terms of a defensive load, I can't imagine that short barrel performance of a 22 HP is any better today than it was years ago, so go with what your gut tells you.
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Old 09-30-2012, 09:25 PM
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Echo: nothing from Remington. I think I'd stick with 40 grain solids. Go for penetration.

No 22LR ammo I know of is engineered for snub nosed revolvers, because of this I really don't think hyper velocity loads really do much in such a short barrel, except spit lots of partially burned powder, and make things especially dirty. In bullet performance I am very skeptical of any sort of gain from these made-for-rifles loads. A gain of maybe 100 fps isn't worth it in this example, it is questionable at best that HP ammo would have enough velocity to properly expand.
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Old 09-30-2012, 10:12 PM
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Prefer CCI Stinger, but since you've written those off I'd go with the classic..40gr Winchester Super-X HP
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Old 10-01-2012, 06:44 AM
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CCI Mini Mag 40 gr solids for penetration. Also I cannot remember the
last time I had a misfire with Mini Mags, something that can't be said
about any other brand. I have an old LLama 22lr "Especial" automatic
that looks like a scaled down Colt 1911 that likes CCI Mini Mags.
Some years ago I decided to record the reliability of this combo
and I ran 2,000 rounds through the LLama without a single jam or
misfire.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:06 AM
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Have lots of handguns but I often carry the Heritage 4" birdshead and I have shot Velocitors in it with no problem so far. But you guys have me wondering so next time out to the range I'm going to give them and Mini Mags a test, thanks for the ideas. P.S. this little cheap gun is amazing, accurate and easy to carry. Minute of rabbit at 50' easy.
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Old 10-01-2012, 07:56 AM
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I shoot the Federal 36gr HP 550 bulk packs from Wally World, nearly $20 now, in everything from my 3" 63 to my CZ-452 l-o-n-g rifles with great success plinking. They are not great grouping high dollar match ammo - but they have thus far all gone bang. I've shot over a brick from my 3" 63 & 4" 617 between cleanings with no feed/extract problems. On the other hand, shooting a box of fifty CCI Stingers from either revolver, whether initially clean or after an indeterminate number of my favorite Federal plinkers, is difficult to complete due to fouling. Still, as I keep speedloaders/moonclips ready with something defensive loaded for all of my safe-stored handguns, I keep my DS-10 speedloaders loaded with Stingers. Unlike the .22 WMR where you have a couple of short barrel designed ammo choices (I like Hornady 50gr 'Critical Defense' rounds.), I know of no such similar .22 LR ammo.

I sold my .22 bottom-feeder, the last of the rude case-tossers I'd owned, over four years ago. My wife still has her 4" Walther P22 - and it seems to like the Federal Auto Match 325 packs. I have never tried anything else in it. One part of my revolver only move was the matching ammo to the gun for proper action working is no longer required. The Fed A-M rounds work well in my revolvers, too... and in my one bottom-feeder - a Ruger 10/.22 gifted to me by number one son. Everything else in my arsenal is either a revolver or a bolt action or lever action rifle.

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Old 10-01-2012, 08:48 AM
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Those 36 gr hollowpoint Federals had no problem penetrating the skull & dispatching full grown hogs (286 lbs) with one shot from my 6.5" Single Six. Hogs have thick, bony skulls. CB
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Old 10-02-2012, 03:15 PM
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Groo here
If this is "not for self defense" I would try Wolf Match Target 22lr..
Their made on the same machines as the bigtime match stuff,but
cost much less.
Not hat a single missfire yet and ALL my guns like them...
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:00 PM
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I carry stingers in my Bobcat - they cycle perfectly. Every time. 2nd choice, also cycling perfectly, are CCI RN mini-mags.

If it's the LCR, I'd use either of those plus Yellowjackets or CCI HP mmags.

+1 on who ever said 'Golden bullets'. Those are my first choice in my 34 because they don't lead up the barrel etc like the T-bolts and win bulk-pack HPs.

Edit: somebody posted their chrono results on a thread in this forum. I saved the data but, apparently, forgot to also save WHO the poster was. Here is that post in its' entirety:

"Twenty two wouldn't be my first choice but I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of multiple shots fired from one either. I would feel much more comfortable with the 317 snubbie than with no gun at all.

Here are some chron results that might be of interest:

2” Lady Smith Airlite 317-2 Chron Results – Temp 70 – 3 Paces from Muzzle (Approx 9’):

WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,005 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 941 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 997 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 973 fps
WW High Speed Hollow Point (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 982 fps

CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 893 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 908 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 862 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 871 fps
CCI Mini Mag Hollow Points (100 Rnd Plastic Pack) 888 fps

CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,120 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,091 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,079 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,094 fps
CCI Stinger Hollow Points (50 Rnd Plastic Pack) 1,069 fps"
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Old 10-02-2012, 04:03 PM
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There has been misfires in a lot of different brands of 22lr nowadays. I just purchased many cases of the CCI Blazer 22lr.
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:51 AM
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Well I know I'm late to the discussion but these days ANY .22LR ammo you can even find is a winner! Coast to coast nearly everything seems to have dried up. Personally, I have always peferred anything from CCI especially Stingers and Mini-Mags.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groo01 View Post
Groo here
If this is "not for self defense" I would try Wolf Match Target 22lr..
Their made on the same machines as the bigtime match stuff,but
cost much less.
Not hat a single missfire yet and ALL my guns like them...
I've used the following in my Ruger SP101:

Remington Subsonic
Aguila Match
Aguila Supermaximum Hyper Veocity
Wolf Match

The only one I had issues with was the Wolf Match. The casings expanded and got stuck in the cylinder. They were stuck so tight that the extractor could not push them out. I had to use a cleaning rod to force them out.
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Old 02-01-2014, 05:34 PM
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my wife carries CCI Stingers in her 22 LCR.
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22lr, 317, colt, ejector, j frame, kimber, kit gun, lock, model 63, primer, remington, rimfire, ruger, smith & wesson, smith and wesson, snubnose, sp101, walther

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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present Thread, Best 22lr ammo for short barrel revolver BUG in Smith & Wesson Revolvers; Let me start by saying that I already own a 357 snub, and I bought a 22lcr for cheap practice ...
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