I'm a new shooter, looking for some advice.

I've been shooting 22s and can shoot some pretty good groups with my Ruger MkIII or S&W M63. I recently got a S&W 686 Plus Pro Series. I expected to need some time to get used to the bigger gun... I also thought it would be interesting to try different cartridges (.38 vs .357). I liked the idea of being able to practice with the .38 special rounds then switching to the .357 for more punch.

So at the range today I'm trying some .38 special -- the revolver shoots well, I'm getting OK groups. Then some .38 P+ -- the groups are much wilder. Then .357 -- OK groups, but all shots are shifted down and to the left about 4". I was shooting at 7 yds. I repeated trying the different ammo and got the same results. So I don't think I was shooting so differently with the different rounds.

So I can understand that different ammo will do different things, but why would it shift aim so drastically? It makes it hard to practice with cartridge and then switch to another if I have to reset the sights.

Anyone have a similar experience? Any advice?

The faster the bullet travels, the flatter it will shoot generally speaking. You shouldn't see a huge difference at seven yards, but perhaps some. Different loadings and different brands of ammo will give some variance from one to the other as well. It might be worthwhile on your next range run to have a more experienced shooter run a cylinder full of ammo through it and see what they get.

If you are throwing your shots down and to the left four inches with the hotter ammo I'd suspect some flinching causing you to yank the trigger and push the muzzle down. See the chart below for some common diagnosis on how your shots are falling.

You're probably anticipating recoil, & flinching. Leave a couple of chambers empty & close the cylinder without looking so you don't know which ones are empty. I'll bet you see your problem when you drop the hammer on an empty chamber.

From my experience, very hot ammo at higher velcities will shoot lower. I've seen about 1-2 inch differences with hot 125 gr .357's and much lower velocity .38's.

In my model 29, I have some hot Hornady SD loads, and some very hot remington 180 gr loads. These shoot about 3-4 inches lower at 10 yards.

I've read that the .38's are "calibrated" for 158 grain .38 non +P loads. Dont know if that is true, but you will find that the hotter and lighter the round, the lower your revolver will shoot. Less "flip" before the bullet leaves the gun, resulting in a lower point of impact.

Bottom line: Find a load you will shoot with, and adjust your sights for that load.

EDIT: And yes, you may be flinching. Try this. Only take out one spent casing, and reload with one live round. Spin the cylinder, then close it. Fire. If you strike a spent case, you'll know if you are flinching.

One of the best and definitely the cheapest way to help solve flinching is just doing a lot of dry firing. I often sit on my couch and snap in toward the tv then proceed to take shots at it (after ensuring my gun is clear first of course). If you aren't comfortable with dry fire then buying some cheap snap caps will be fine of course too. Many experienced shooters do the same thing. It can also help to smooth out your action.

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Son of a Gun...Smith

Thanks for the tips. I'm planning on doing more dry firing exercises...

A friend had also suggested mixing live rounds with spent to check how I was squeezing the trigger. I had forgotten that, I'll have to try that out at the range.

Interesting point about hotter rounds leaving the barrel earlier.

Anyone have a favorite .38 special ammo for the 686?

yes the Remington gold saber 125 gr Hp +p and the standard 135 gr. rem fmj as a target load.

Mixing live round with spent is called a "ball and dummy" drill. That and dry firing will teach a lot about trigger control and maintaining sight picture.

I use Gold Dot 135 grain JHP .38 +P short barrel in my 2.5 and 4 inch K frames for defensive purposes. For practice ammo I use a 158 grain lead SWC at standard pressure from a commercial reloader that is just up the highway from me, Load-X. Very consistent from batch to batch and very accurate.

+1 on this advice. It is amazing how much we tend to flinch and not even know it. Mixing in some empty chambers has been very good training (and eye-opening) for me.

At seven yards the problem is you. At that distance the bullet has not had the chance to rise and certainly not to fall.

I finally made it back to the range. I practiced some dry firing at home, read some Massad Ayoob articles. . . So my shooting today was much improved, with all the ammo I tried. Three things seemed to really help.
1) Gripping very tightly. This was something recommended in a Massad Ayoob article I found.
2) Mixing in spent cases to check for flinching, jerking etc.
3) Shooting double action! Maybe this is part of #1? The revolver has a >12 lb trigger pull in DA. I found I was much more accurate shooting DA than SA. Not sure why, but it definitely made a difference and not something I expected.

Anyone have a favorite sight to recommend for these revolvers? It came with the basic black/square, and I think I'd like something with more contrast.

Thanks for the tips, they helped!