I bought a S&W J-frame revolver (Model 637 Airweight) for my wife 2 months ago. Took it to the range for the 1st time yesterday, and after she fired one cylinder of ammo through it (all single-action), the gun would no longer hold the hammer back for single-action firing. It would still fire double action, but to do so required holding the trigger all the way back for a moment - pressing it hard - and then it would finally release. It feels like the timing got messed up somehow. The ammo used was Hornady Custom Ammunition 38 Special 125 Grain XTP Jacketed Hollow Point, which is not Plus P ammo - so I don't think it gave the gun an undue beating.

Any ideas before I call S&W and ask for warranty work? Needless to say, she's very disappointed. She wanted this gun to use for concealed carry/self defense, and chose to pay the extra money for the Smith figuring it would be reliable. Conversely, her 4 year old Taurus Model 85 has never given her a problem even after firing hundreds of rounds.

Thanks.

Call S&W.

AFS

This one needs to go back to the factory. No new gun should behave like that.

Even if the problem is something as simple as milling debris left inside the frame that's interfering with the action, there's a chance a more serious problem needs to be fixed -- hammer, trigger, DA sear, even broken or bent hammer or trigger studs. You paid for a new gun and ought to have one. Don't try to fix it yourself.

And welcome to the forum. Sorry your first post here had to involve a problem rather than a satisfaction. Please post back once you have a resolution to this issue. We want to know what happened.

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David Wilson

No quality

That's pretty much my thoughts. I'll call them this afternoon and get set up for return shipping. I'll post when I know something more. Thanks for the replies.

The screwy thing is, in the 2 months we've had the gun she's dry-fired it (as have I) several times and not even a hint of a problem. I'm glad we found it BEFORE she started carrying it and staking her life on it.

That is not an unusual problem for our revolvers. It's closely related to "push-off", in which the hammer, when cocked, will push off and move forward. I believe, (help me out here, you gunsmith guys,) that it is simply a lack of complete sear/hammer engagement. This can happen when someone not thoroughly experienced in S&W actions attempts an action job on one, although I have a 29-2 that came that way from the factory.
You should start by returning the gun to S&W and they will certainly make it right. Once it's back and you've shot it a bit, you might want to have one of the really good gunsmiths give it a tuning.
But, for now, get the piece working properly. It would not be good to try to explain to a jury why your roscoe shot some troll when it really wasn't your intent to do so.

+1...

They sent a faulty gun out the door, they will fix it. Call Customer Service and they will send you a FexEx shipping label to return the gun to them. Turnaround will be about a month, give or take a week.

S&W Shipping & Returns

Edmo

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TRUTH: Don't delete my posts!

Well, I'm going to muddy the waters a bit. Yesterday, before I had a chance to call S&W, I was manipulating the hammer, I noticed that if I pushed on it harder than you should have to while thumb-cocking it, the sear would catch and hold it in the cocked position. It almost felt like it had a bit of creep to it as it clicked in place. Also, it would take a good deal of trigger pressure to get it to release. Like I was mashing the trigger into the frame. If it were a 1911, I would have suspected a mis-adjusted overtravel screw.

One thing I failed to mention in my O.P., I had installed a lighter hammer spring (8 lbs.) and a lighter trigger return spring (14 lbs.) in an effort to make it easier for my wife to work the action in double-action mode. Knowing I'd probably have to return the gun to S&W with its stock springs, I replaced them in the gun and lo-an-behold, the gun starts working AS DESIGNED!

Now I'm baffled. (!?!?)

I think we're going to make a few range trips with it to see how it behaves. If it keeps functioning properly with the original springs, she may just have to get used to a stiffer trigger.

Wow. You didn't tell us the gun had been opened up. Highly likely you didn't get the gun put back together correctly.

Regarding the springs; I don't recommend changing the rebound spring. I do often change the main spring though.

I would take the gun to the range and put a few hundred through it and, if all is well, call it good.

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Centennial Every Day

Okay, I'm back. Took it to the range several times and long story short: Still a problem.

So, I call S&W this morning to get a return authorization, and guess what: They're CLOSED until August 13, except for Law Enforcement Emergencies or Urgent Customer Concerns.

I'm not sure if they'd consider this an urgent customer concern or not, but I do. I'm on hold now - we'll see.

My man, I hate to say it, but... changing springs on a J-frame is something I long ago learned not to do. Even more so than with larger guns, there's a delicate balance between the springs and the working parts; lighten springs, and things inevitably, eventually, go out of whack. In short -- shoulda left well-enough alone.

Smoothing of all action friction points, proper lubing, and hand-strength exercises are the way to go.

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Pisgah

I have to respectfully disagree with this as a blanket statement. It depends on the purpose for the gun, the proficiency of the gunsmith, and the original springs in the gun. No question that the first phase should be smoothing and lubrication though.

I've got the original springs back in it, and it is back together the way it came, and it's still malfunctioning. What it's doing now is different - I'll put a cylinder through it - no problem. Reload, get two more shots off and on the 3rd shot, the trigger moves and rotates the cylinder, but does not cock and release the hammer. Opening and closing the cylinder then seems to reset it, though not always. It seems like the shock of firing it a few times knocks something out of whack. It's not something I'd want to depend on to save my life. She's very disappointed at this point. She's always heard what quality products Smith & Wesson's were and wanted to have the best to carry. Now she's got her Taurus, which has never given her a problem - even with its lightened springs, back in her holster. I feel bad, and I'm not trying to flame or anything. Just disappointed.

By the way, I've given up holding for customer service. I guess I'll have to wait til they come back from vacation and re-open.

Thanks for listening.

Any time you alter the the gun from the original state, the warranty is void. Also, there is a liability issue if you had to use the gun for self defense and that could be a serious problem if the matter results in a court case. The rebound spring is designed to rebound the trigger after the sear releases the hammer. The amount of coils are set from the manufacturer. Frequently, gun owners will cut some of the coils for a reduced trigger pull but in time will result in FTF. Any reputable gunsmith will not take the liability of cutting the coils because of that reason. If you were using the gun for target practice then that is fine. But if you use the gun for self defense or duty carry, bad move and it can bite you.

Nick

How did it function before it was tampered with?For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.If it was fine before the modification then you can't blame S&W or the gun.For the average ccw these guns are probably fine.If they function out of the box leave them alone unless you are modifying for competition.If you are unsure of what you are doing you take a perfectly reliable functioning revolver and turn it into an unreliable non functioning club.As Clint said "A man's got to know his limitations".By the way I do not mean to offend you.I hope you get your problem resolved.

Call S&W and they will email you a shipping label (postage) and they will fix it and ship it back FEDEX at no charge.

Grant Cunningham said in his book, that when altering a revolver, you can have any two of three things, reliability, lighter trgger pull, or faster trigger reset. Never all three.

Just had something similar happen to me with a 686 i brought it to my gunsmith and found that the strain screw for the mainspring lossened up.
Revolver was brand new with 100 rounds just put through it two days after I purchased.

Replacing the rebound and main spring should not cause the problem that you described. I have used reduced tension springs in my S&W revolvers for many years and not had any problems. Was there any stoning/polishing done inside when the springs were installed? I always do some polishing inside when replacing the springs, but stay away from the sear unless really necessary. A bad angle on the sear and it will fall on single action.

I will replace a return spring on a J Frame, but never lighter than a 14 lb, but I never replace a main spring. I have never had a reliability problem. Light stoning the return slide and a couple other places with good cleaning and light lube and they run good.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I don't claim to be a gunsmith, but I have taken a few sideplates off and studied the mechanisms. If the trigger will unlock and rotate the cylinder but not cock the hammer, it sounds like the double action sear isn't (reliably) popping out after the trigger slides down over it while moving to its forward position after a shot. (The double action sear is the spring loaded bar in the front of the hammer, that the top back tip of the trigger engages to cock the hammer when you work the mechanism double action. It is spring loaded so it can move back to let the trigger pass by after the hammer has fallen, and the sear then pops back forward for the trigger to catch for the next shot.)

That's still something for S&W to look at, but may be nothing more than a piece of crud blocking its free movement. You can take a look at the workings of the action with the side plate off, and if you see the double action sear sticking then you know what the problem is. (Of course if it doesn't fail while you're looking at it, that doesn't mean that it isn't the problem, just that it's not happening when you're looking at it. Like the car that won't squeak when you take it to the dealer to get the squeak fixed.)

Send it in to S&W and hope like 'ell they don't realize you were inside messin' with things.

My 60-4 shoots unbelievably well. But I opened it anyway and shined up the return block and its track. The next time I opened it I lost the return spring and had to order a set of Wolff springs. I chose the 14 pound spring and the gun works sweetly. I don't know if the return is slowed or not, I'm not ever going to be fast enough to tell.

The hammer and sear are a fine-tuning thing to be done by a smith with patience and good eyesight. I'm not ever going there.

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USN WWII Korea
NRA

No stoning, polishing, grinding, etc. Just the hammer spring and the trigger/rebound spring. I've done this on every revolver, both double and single action, that I've ever owned with nothing but positive results.

That's what I figured. It's really not difficult to do if you're mechanically inclined. I even took several photos for comparison of the mechanism with the side plate off before I touched any of the inner workings. It went back together the way it came apart.

I do wish we'd taken it to the range and actually fired it before I installed the lighter springs. If the problem had presented itself then, then we'd know it wasn't because of lighter weight springs - because there wouldn't be any. We dry fired it a bit - not excessively. Never had a problem there, but even now - once it starts working we won't have another failure while dry firing - it's always after firing live rounds.

Well, if they do then they do. I just want the gun reliable. If they charge me for it, oh well. Live and learn I guess. Trust me, this isn't the only Smith out there with lighter springs installed. Most of them work just fine.

Unfortunately, my wife can barely operate the gun with the stock weight springs - not reliably enough to stake your life on it. She's 4' 11"" and 95 lbs. soaking wet. Not enough oomph there to work that stiff double-action trigger when the nasty stuff hits the fan. I was able to work miracles with the trigger on her Taurus 85, and it's been utterly reliable. I've installed lighter springs in my Ruger GP-100, and well as my Vaquero and Blackhawk with wonderful results. I guess the Smith is a different animal. I'm hoping it's something as simple as a piece of crud in there that I'm just not seeing. I'd really like to get this gun running right for her.

+1.

From your posts it seems clear that the problems you are having are a result of your "gunsmithing" efforts.

The first thing you need to do is to quit screwing around with the gun.

The second thing is put it back in the box, tape it shut and put it on a shelf somewhere.

Contact S&W for shipping label and return the gun to them.

And as Buck said is hope S&W don't notice the bugged up screws and internal parts and fix the gun for free (which they likely will anyway).

Finally if your wife is happy with the Taurus what is the purpose in changing guns?

The Taurus has a bit longer barrel, and so is a tad less concealable. Also, the Smith is an airweight, whereas the Taurus has an all-steel frame - therefore the Smith has the advantage for carry.

Plus, the Smith has a pink grip. No kidding. I really don't think she can walk past a pink item without purchasing it.

And finally, there's the venerable "Smith & Wesson" name. They're generally thought of as the creme de la creme of revolvers. We figured that if her inexpensive Taurus was good, the more expensive Smith with its reputation for quality would be better.

Apparently, at least in the case of this gun, not so much.

I know several guys who compete in USPSA Revolver Competitions with S&W revolvers - they swear by them in a sport where reliability is second only to safety in importance. And believe me when I tell you these Smiths have been heavily modified, including lighter springs. Naturally I assumed if their guns were reliable with lighter springs, why wouldn't my wife's little J-frame respond the same? If it does come down to this gun not being able to run without the heavy stock springs installed, then we'll have to sell it - because as I said, she can't reliably pull the heavy double-action trigger on this thing. And I'm not going to carry it....it's got PINK grips!


I must say I'm a bit confused. To what "bugged up screws and internal parts" are you referring? I did not damage any screws or internal parts. And, the internal parts that I removed to change the springs went back in exactly as they came out.

It is usually not very difficult to tell when the sideplate has been removed. Unless you used the proper fitting screwdrivers expressly made for S&W's the slots will show deformation however slight. In addition the internal parts will show where they they where removed unless you once again you used the proper tools designed for that purpose by S&W.

Once you know what to look for as S&W tech does dozens (hundred) a week it is not difficult.

Ooookay. It will probably be even less difficult for them to tell once I tell them I've replaced the springs.

I hope I didn't give the impression I was going to try and conceal something or put one over on good ole S&W. I'll be straight up front about it. If they are generous enough to work on it and not charge me, great! They'll have a grateful customer. If they chose to charge me for the work instead, so be it - I get it. I won't be mad at all. Like I said, I just want the gun to work. If it turns out that it can't work with a lighter trigger pull, then we'll just have to sell it and get something that's not so persnickety.

I'll lay odds that Smith will replace either the hammer or trigger or both. The problem, I believe, lies with the cocking notch on the hammer or the trigger bevel or both. Since it's a new firearm, one or both may be broken. I can't believe that one was worn so quickly. We can all make educated guesses of the cause but I'd have to have the revolver in my hand with the side plate off and see how each part interacts with the other. Anyway, you did just what I would have done. Send it back to Smith and make use of the warranty.

since this all happened over 4 years ago I wonder how it turned out???

Good question! Don't you wish you had a buck for every time a poster involved us all in his odyssey and left us hanging?

I have found that loose sideplate screws can result in the cylinder rotating and the hammer stationary when the trigger is pulled.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

We would all be rich!

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Centennial Every Day

I have the same problem with a brand new Model 60 Pro 3" barrel but I haven't done anything to it except put 200 rounds through it. At first it was fine but after 120 rounds it wouldn't hold the hammer cocked in single action.

Did he ever figure out the problem?

RobertoDeNuevoMexico, your gun needs to go back to the factory for warranty service. Give them a call, and they will send you a free FedEX label. The whole thing won't cost you anything, and it won't take too long.

We do not know the end result for the earlier posters, but I expect the factory fixed them up just fine. I think what you may really want to know is "Are there any simple causes for this issue which I could fix very easily?" And the answer is "not really." In some cases, a gunsmith can fix push off quite easily, but the problem you described should not happen to a new gun. And it is not a problem that could be caused by a loose screw or something that just needs a little oil.

If you have access to someone very knowledgeable about revolvers, it never hurts to have that person examine the gun. But if you don't have anyone to examine it for you, then your issue certainly warrants sending it in.

Soooo......

This follow-up reply has been a long time coming.(7 1/2 years!) We sent the gun in to S&W with a description of the problem and all of the surrounding circumstances. As I recall, we received the gun back about 3 weeks later with a list of items repaired/replaced. They are as follows:

Repaired: Replace Hand.
Repaired: Repair Lock.


And that's all it said. They did not charge us for the visit. We have had no problems with it since then. The Mrs. takes it to the range and shoots it along with our other guns, and over the years she's put probably 400 rounds through it. She was, understandably, hesistant to carry it for a while after the trouble she'd had with it. But after a year or so went by with no further issues she began using it as a CCW.

fxdrider
I'am curious if she is using the original or reduced power springs.
It is obvious that the lighter springs were not the problem. Probably why S&W didn't make a point about changing them.

Best,
Rick

After using it at the range enough to where it seemed like the problem had been fixed, I reinstalled the reduced power hammer spring. We then used it over several more months without any failures before she felt comfortable carrying it. We left the factory "rebound" spring in it, as the reduced power ones had a negative effect on trigger return - made it not return as quickly as it should when firing rapidly.

She's happy with it. It's a great little carry gun. Amazingly concealable and so light you barely know it's there. Thankfully, she has not been called upon to use it in a defensive fashion. I hope and pray neither of us are ever in that situation.