Would anyone besides me buy either of these? I am buying my second .32 H&R Magnum J-frame and considering buying the 3-inch barrel 632 .327 Federal -- but just to shoot .32 H&R Magnum. I find the 6 shot cylinder of the .32 in a J-frame appealing and I find I can shoot the .32 VERY ACCURATELY out of a J frame.

I am a runner and I run early in the morning. One morning, about 5 am, in the dark, on a 5 mile run, I found myself being chased by a rabid fox and had to defend myself by throwing the newly-delivered newspapers at it until it finally ran away. That day I went out and bought a Ruger SP101 in .357 Magnum to carry while jogging.

Unfortunately, the Ruger kicked badly and had about a two-foot muzzle flash when shooting .357 Magnum JHPs. The accuracy with both .357 Mags and .38 Special +P was also quite disappointing - I had shot competitively when I was in the USMC and expected better. It was also quite heavy and weighed me down while running - so I traded it at the gun store for a J frame S&W in .22 -- with an 8 shot cylinder. Although this little aluminum revolver was a pleasure to carry, the accuracy wasn't great and it had the worst trigger I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.

Then I read about the S&W Airweight .32 H&R revolvers. I immediately traded the .22 for a 432 PD in .32 H&R Magnum - I had done a little research, and while the .38 is certainly a more powerful round on paper than the .32 H&R, out of a 1 3/8 barrel they are basically equivalent, according to the one article I read, and you have 6 shots vice 5, and the .32 H&R is an intrinsically accurate round.

I have to say that I am a believer in the argument that the .32 H&R Magnum is the most efficient and accurate round out of a snub-nosed revolver. I can shoot .32 H&R snubbies MUCH more accurately than .38s -- not just on the range, I shot a 6 foot diamondback rattlesnake that was at the foot of my deerstand in the eye at 10 yards with this little revolver a couple of years ago. Unfortunately, I seem to be in the minority and S&W stopped making these excellent little revolvers -- too bad, because I really like them.

Fast forward to the .327 Federal magnum -- why isn't S&W making these in a K frame? The old .32 H&R 16-4 seems like the PERFECT platform for this round! I purchased 16-4 and had Bowen Classic Arms ream the cylinder out to accept the .327 Fed - and them took Chuck Hawk's advice and zeroed it for 100 yards. This is an awesome hunting pistol - perfect for game up to and including hogs out to 100 yards. Extremely accurate, hard-hitting, easy recoiling, and VERY flat shooting, this is an awesome varmint and small to medium game hunting pistol.

So, I want S&W to build lightweight J frames in .32 H&R Magnum, and long-barreled, adjustable sight K-frames in .327 Federal magnum. Instead, they build heavy short-barreled J frames in .327 Federal and discontinue the .32 H&R. WHY OH WHY?

I got tired of waiting for Smith and Wesson to sell the 32 cal revolvers I was hoping for.

Like you, I purchased a 432 and had a 16-4 reamed to 327 by Mr. Bowen.

In addition I had him build me a 6" K frame in 327 federal using a Model 15 frame, a Model 48 cylinder and barrel from a couple of well used revolvers with very little original bluing left. I don't think my total investment exceeded the cost of a new Smith K frame by more than $100 after I sold the 48 frame.

This is what I ended up with.

I feel your pain!! I probably own 20 32 H&R magnum revolvers. The j frame is perfect and the recoil is minimal. My daughter in law has arthritis and shooting it does not bother her at all.
The problem with S&W company is they are listening!!

PoorKnight,

You know S&W made an even lighter J-frame .32 H&R mag than the 431/432, right? The 331/332 has a titanium cylinder and shrouded steel barrel liner. I don't remember the exact weights, but it is appreciably less weight (-2 oz.?) if that is better for you. Also the earlier ones were made without the lock. They can be found, with patience and diligence.

Also check out Buffalo Bore's "Heavy" loadings to add versatility to this caliber. I think it is Double Tap that loads the Barnes all-copper bullet in .32 H&R. The bullet looks a little light, but I want to look into it further based on the performance of this bullet design in the Cor-Bon DPX line.

I have a small clutch of the J frame .32 Mags. Have the new J frame in 327, and just had my M16 32-20cylinder reamed out to .327, now I have both cylinders (.32 Mag and .327 Mag) for the 16. The Buffalo Bore .32 Mags are quite good IMHO, I like the heavier 130 gr SWC, will make a substantial impression on any critter, 2 or 4 legged.

I fell in love with the .32 H&R Mag the first time I took my 16-4 out to the range. I bought that 16-4 back when they first came out and since then I have added a 432PD, another 16-4 and a Ruger SP101 to the fold.

I recently sent one of the 16-4's to Dave Clements (Clements Custom Guns) and had the cylinder reamed to .327 Federal, he did an excellent job.

Many berate the .32 H&R as a "mouse magnum" and ask why waste ones time with it, but most judgements are probably based upon the anemic Federal factory loadings purposely kept low for the hokey H&R revolvers at the time.

The handloaded stuff that I use in my Ruger SP101... I sure wouldn't want to be the backstop for the targets that I practice on with it.

__________________
Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I read this thread with great interest as I am in somewhat the same frame of mind. I owned a 16-4 when they first came out but foolishly sold it while chasing after something I thought I "needed" more.

Flash forward to the present, with the fairly recent release of the 327 Fed Mag, etc. and the itch started up again. After off-forum discussions with a couple of names you all would recognize, I decided that the planets were in the proper alignment and I made three orders in quick succession. I now have a Model 617-1 barrel and cylinder in hand, and a Model 67-1 revolver should reach me today or tomorrow. I will have the barrel rebored and rifled to .313"-.314" and the cylinder recut to 327 FM chamber specs and have it all assembled by a good smith. I'm thinking this will definitely be a keeper! Out of curiosity, has anyone else had this done, and if yes, by whom?

Regards,
Froggie

PS I've tentatively named this project the "Model 616, the gun S&W should have built but never did."

I also had Mr. Bowen build a K-327 for me a couple years ago and I love it. It's a pre-model 15 frame, re-chambered K-22 cylinder (so the case heads are recessed like all good magnums should be), and it wears a factory full-lug 8-3/8" Model 16-4 barrel. Optics are a Leupold VX-3 variable with vintage Beuhler rings and mount. It's a tack driver.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

I would buy the J frame for sure. I was fortunate to find a NIB S&W 431 32 mag. a couple of years ago and its a great little shooter. Decent trigger and quite accurate. From what I have read the Buff. Bore +P 32 mag ammo can take the little 431 into typical 38 +P power range. I had a SP101 in 32 mag but it had some QC issues and I was not satisfied with it so I sold it. My LGS has a S&W 632 327 mag with the 3" ported bbl. NIB. I never liked ported bbls. but I am thinking about it. If S&W would only release the 631 4" kit gun once again I would probably buy two! S&W marketing seems a little out of touch sometimes IMO.

I could relate to a 4" (Kit Gun style) Model 631 with adjustable sights or even if they were to jump up to a 6" target version like the old pre-War Regulation Police Target if they were to deem them worth building... of course I would have to hold my nose with regards to the IL they would "have" to put on it, and the MIM parts, but "you can't always get what you want." (with a proper anniversary nod to the Rolling Stones. ) I'm absolutely sure my "Model 616" will never go into production @ Smith, so I'll just make my own and not even wait for it.

Froggie

I bought the new 632 Pro (no lock, night sites) Love that little gun. I reload, so ammo is not a problem. I think to be a truly effective round it needs a longer barrel. If you have the $$ Freedom Arms makes a beauty , SA only.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Poor Knight,

here I was, feeling cantankerous and all ready to chime in with my opinion that .32s are a gap between the .22 lr. and .38 spl. that doesn't really need to be filled, being the die-hard .22 & .38 fan that I am. Paying more for harder-to-find
ammo that does less than the more powerful, fully manageable and cheaper .38s seems counter-intuitive to me. In fact, though I have a .22 WMR cylinder for my Ruger Super Single Six, I never use it for the same reason (and that .22 lr. cylinder gets the job done so well, on so many different kinds of creatures, but then, so does my Military & Police. (So goes the thoughts of this [and likely other] "experts" who've never actually shot a .32).
Well, dead is dead and if you can drill snakes with confidence with said .32s.... that speaks to me... and rabid foxes BEWARE!!!

Samwood: Gorgeous Revolver!

You guys are killing me. I wish we could send a few rounds downrange with you up in the Cascade Mountains just so I could try some of these clearly in-between, misfit guns out to point out the error of your ways.


Green Frog: You had to go and mention the "House Band" didn't you. Did you know salmon bite better when the Rolling Stones or Jimi Hendrix are played loud?



Sorry for the fishing hijack, it's what I do. C.B.

I would buy the .327 16-4 K frame today if it were offered!

"Green Frog: You had to go and mention the "House Band" didn't you." Clean Break

Yeah, only sometimes you gotta get it done yourself if you wanna "get what you neeeed!"

The biggest advantage of the 32 family of cartridges over the 22 rimfire is that you can pick any one of 5 different cases from 32 ACP to 327 Fed Mag and load them to suit the situation and your mood. In this case you can indeed "get what you want" and "get what you need at the same time! Any more, my 22s (K-22 and pre-War I-frame Heavy Frame Target) get shot when I'm too lazy or in too big a hurry to do a little reloading. When the "Model 616 Project" is completed, I see a lot more dust on the 22s! It should do anything a K-22 will do and most things a sanely loaded 357 will do, and be at home all along that spectrum.

Froggie

Froggie

S&W isn't making K-frame .327's for the simple reason that the demand is not there.

I have no reason to disbelieve the OP's report of disappointment with the Ruger .357.

I find it very surprising that any Ruger wheelgun in .357 caliber would be inaccurate with quality .38 Special standard-velocity ammo. I can see where it might take some training to reach the point where the shooter is getting the most out of it.

Hot-loaded .32, whether it be H&R mag, or the new "Federal" round, is good for anything that one might ask a hot-loaded light-bullet .357 to do.

I think if you are going to consider the .327 as a hog gun for 100 yard shots, you need to look at something other than the gun you might take along on your daily jog.

As a compromise, you might like the Ruger Single-Six in .32
Not very expensive as new guns go.
I'm right fond of mine.
But you do have to cock it between shots.

__________________
WWSSD?
What would Skeeter do?

I fear you have hit the nail on the head with that one statement. That's why I had the confidence to begin building my own prototype... I won't be able to find it on the dealer's shelf... EVER!

If they weren't satisfied with selling all the Model 16-4s they could (or would) make back in the early '90s, they sure wouldn't find today's specialized market conducive to selling the kind of numbers the bean counters would demand of a new model. IIRC they made a total of about 8800 and they were sold over a time frame of about 3 years or so. It wasn't until they were announced to be discontinued that they disappeared like a puff of smoke.

This attitude is especially noticeable now with the decreased emphasis on their old, "obsolete" K-frame design anyway; in all calibers. If it isn't made with thermoplastic in the frame, with a magazine large enough to hold off a large biker gang, and in some exotic caliber (or at least one expressed in mm or starting with a four) it just won't be "worthwhile" for them. More's the pity. Of course, if they did make a limited run of them, there would be complaining about the execution, slower than expected sales (after the first rush) and a quick discontinuation of the model leading to the creation of yet another unobtainable collector's item.

Thus endeth the rant!
Froggie

My 'daily jog" gun is the .32 H&R 432 PD J-frame Airweight.

The 100 yard hog gun is a S&W 16-4 K frame with the cylinder converted to .327 Federal Magnum, 6 inch barrel.


The Ruger SP101 snubnose revolver was too heavy for the daily jog AND not as accurate as the snubnose .32 Airweight. But the Ruger was built like a tank. A tank bumping along in a fannypack isn't a pleasant sensation.

And, as far as training, I had already been on the 1st Marine Division pistol team, had my 5th award Expert for both rifle and pistol, commanded a sniper platoon and a recon company, scored a perfect score qualifying with both the 9mm and the .38 Special at the Dept of State firearms qualification, 3 years in a row, prior to the encounter with the rabid fox.

So I'm not a novice shooter.

I like both the .38 Special and .357 Magnum rounds, but not in snub-nosed revolvers. I find I shoot a snub-nosed .32 H&R appreciably faster and more accurately, especially under stress, than the .38 or .357 snub-nosed.

All that said, I only use my J frame as a carry gun while running, exercising, or wearing shorts and T shirt. My everyday carry gun is a Glock 26 or Glock 19.

As for the .327 Federal, it's just neat that it is so flat-shooting so it makes a nice hunting revolver. The .357 Mag or .38 Special is clearly a better all-around revolver, especially in a 4-inch K or L frame.

I guess most people aren't interested in accuracy in a snub-nosed revolver -- they would rather have knockdown power. I, on the other hand, am willing to sacrifice some power - just a little - for the appreciable increase I get in speed and accuracy. But I'm not willing to go all the way down to a .22, so the .32 and .327 work well for me.

I'm also a fan of both K and J frame revolvers chambered in .32 caliber. The K frames are great target guns, extremely accurate with very little recoil. The J frames are accurate, managable, and as mentioned before offer the advantage of 6 shots. As far as I'm concerned, the old original Model 632 Airweight Centennial in .32 Magnum is just about the perfect pocket gun.

Attached Images

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	.32JFrames.JPG (220.9 KB, 300 views)
	632BlueIns.JPG (106.3 KB, 272 views)

Interesting thread, I hope someone at Smith & Wesson peruses these. I love my Model 632 and would love to see a K frame chambered in 327 Magnum. As AKAOV1MAN (Hello Capt. Jack) did is probably the only way to ever get a K frame so chambered.

My plan is to have a separate cylinder rechambered to .327 for one of my 16-4's instead of altering the original.

That's probably a good idea given the collectibility of the gun. Some day there will be threads about converted vs. non-converted 16-4s. Shooters will want one and collectors will want the other.

Here's my 16-4 in the middle along with my 17-6 and 14-5.

It wasn't bad enough that my buddy Green Frog is building his own 616, "the gun that never was and Smith should have built", now I had to read this thread!

The .32 is already a favorite caliber of mine with 6 .32 longs and 2 .32 H&R Mags. Now I want a Blue .327 FM K frame.....jeez Louise!

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

I love my 31-2, it's a hole puncher.

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SV,14,17,21,28,29,39,66,586

Here is Model 16-4 perfection, the "Triplets" all bought new.

Was visiting my LGS where I had purchased my 431 and 432 hoping to find another of that caliber in the display case but the dealer said that S&W stopped selling the 32 Mag in the U.S. as the European market was so hot they were buying all they could ship over there. Not sure about the 327 Mag as I have not been able to find one through any channels except an auction board at very high prices..all5x

Hello PoorKnight
I have been a Fan of the .32 H&R Magnum for year's as well as the .32 S&W Long Cartridge. That said I have owned most all of the handguns that S&W has produced in the caliber and still have a Few, that really stand out and perform for me. I sent my S&W Model 16-4 to Bowen a few years ago and had him punch it to The New Federal .327 Magnum caliber. A week after I had it changed over, I took a Large Tennessee Bobcat with it at 35 Yards with one of my Own Hand loads as I could not find any factory ammo for it, so had to roll my own. The Bobcat is currently a Tennessee State record for size and weight as he weighed 41 Pounds dressed out, so if I had to guess I would say that he was well in Excess of 50 Pound's live weight and measured 41" In length. When my revolver was finished Bowen supplied me with 100 cases to reload for it as Factory ammo back then simply did not exist. I settled on a Load using the Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master bullet with a stiff charge of Accurate Arm's # 5 Powder and a small CCI Pistol Magnum primer. The load when Tested clocked an amazing 1630 F.P.S. out of my 6" barrel. and as shown below was super accurate at the 20 Yard line. I have carried daily a Model 431 P.D. for the past Six years and recently located a nice unfired Model 632 Centennial revolver for my wife. I had only read about these Model 632 Centennial's before buying one for the wife as they only made 1050 of them before discontinuing them, in the early 1990's time span. It came to me in it's original box with the paperwork and tools at a Local gun show from it's original owner. I gave him his full asking price of $275.00 for it, and was Very glad to get it. I also have a Pre-16 K-32 Masterpiece chambered in .32 S&W Long caliber which Shown below which is a Five screw variation that shipped in April 1951 & the Bobcat I Piled up with my Bowen Modified 16-4 Mounted now as well as my current carry gun being my 431 P.D. as well as the wife's Model 632 Centennial. Long live the .32 H&R Magnum and the gun's S&W made to fire it...








My Pre-16 K-32 Masterpiece chambered in .32 S&W Long Cartridge.












My Bowen Modified Model 16-4 shown with Load Testing Targets and recovered Sierra hollow point bullets


























The S&W Model 632 Centennial Air-Weight










The S&W Model 431 P.D. Revolver shown with Bird's eye Maple stocks

This is my 30-1 J frame target conversion with target hammer, trigger and stocks. I'm wondering about punching it out to 32 H&R Mag.

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Make that same gun in a K frame six shot with the adjustable sights and I would be all over one.

samwood,

That's a beautiful piece and the barrel already reads 'Magnum". Or did Bowen re-roll mark the barrel ".327 Magnum"?

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Jim,

Thanks. Mr. Bowen re-rollmarked the barrel "327 Fed. Mag. Ctg." My experience with him was first class.

Extremely jealous right now.

Cool, nothing but 1st class from Mr. Bowen!

__________________
Jim
S&WCA #819

Just added a 431 PD to my .32 collection! Now I have the 16-4, the 632 Pro carry, the 432 and the 431. I'll need to add the 331 now that I know about it. I'll add pics once the 431 comes!

Great bobcat Hammerdown! I owe you some thanks - I read your post on the 16-4 you had converted by Bowen Classic Arms and that's what got me started on the 16-4 - I was already a fan of the .32 H&R. I also REALLY like your 632.

Now I think I'll have to start reloading. With my .32 and .327 revolvers, and the .338-06 elk rifle I'm buying, it is clearly the next step for me.

Hello PoorKnight

I appreciate your kind words. My Model 16-4 has not been roll marked barrel stamped as Federal .327 By Bowen. I wanted to leave the factory stamps original so I Just supplied him with the cylinder & Crane assembly. He had to re-blue my cylinder twice once it was converted so that it's color and shine would match the rest of my gun. It came out nice in the end, but had to be redone by Bowen, which Frustrated him a Little as he does not like to be criticized for his work, but my cylinder did not come close to matching my gun as it looked more like it was Intended for a model 28 Highway Patrolman with it's rather low gloss bluing finish, one good thing was that I live only about 20 Minutes from his shop here in East Tennessee so I did not have to ship my part's or waste time in getting it refinished, as I returned the same day that I got it from him after our phone conversion, and the elapsed time that it took me to return to his shop this time with the gun & cylinder in hand he could see the major difference in the bluing finishes comparing gun frame to cylinder looks.





By selling me the 200 Round's of once fired Federal .327 Magnum Brass when I picked up the gun's cylinder, it allowed me to have it with me during my Deer hunting less than a week after it left his shop, which in turn allowed me to Harvest the large Bobcat with it. That Hunting day was one I will Never forget as the Federal .327 Magnum Cartridge really proved itself to me with it's Supreme accuracy and speed as that Big Cat never saw it coming at him, nor never moved once he was hit with the 90 Grain Sierra Sport's Master slug I had hand loaded for it. To really see the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge Shine, one must hand load for it to Tailor the load to the gun that it is going to be fired in, I have found my Re-load's do far better than factory ammo in my gun.



I have No Regret's in having my Model 16-4 converted to the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge. It now can fire the following caliber's... .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, .32 H&R Magnum and the converted Federal .327 Magnum cartridge. I can tell you that after Bowen finished my conversion that my gun actually Grouped tighter with all facet's of the rounds mentioned above and I called and asked him why this was now true of it's performance ? He shared with me that he Matches all of the cylinder throat's when he convert's these gun's to the Federal .327 Magnum and I feel this move alone that he perform's is what attribute's to the guns finer Tack driver accuracy now. Before I had my gun converted I had Taken the .32 H&R Magnum as far as I could go with it. In re-loading for it I was filling the cases to almost a compressed load state with Magnum powder and the load was so Hot that it was blowing the standard Small magnum Pistol primer's Out, so I had to switch over to small Rifle primer's in my starline cases to get further with my velocity of the load's. I can tell you that through all of my hand loading for the .32 H&R Magnum round, that it actually liked the load's hotter and responded with very high accuracy, as I slowly climbed the velocity scale with powder increases. I knew having it switched over to the Federal .327 magnum cartridge would allow me more case room for even higher yet velocity and accuracy potential out of this gun. Put Plainly the S&W model 16-4 can handle anything you load it with due to it's very thick cylinder wall's and it comes through with very accurate target results.



It has been asked several times in the past and even in this Thread if Bowen can convert a Previous .32 S&W Long cartridge revolver over to the new Federal .327 Magnum. I too asked MR. Bowen this question and he simply will not do it nor could he as the cylinder's in those gun's are not long enough to take the entire length of the Federal .327 Magnum. Even if they were long enough to accept the Federal .327 Magnum the gun could not withstand the Huge cartridge Pressure differences between the .32 Long Cartridge round compared to the Federal .327 Magnum. The .32 S&W Long Cartridge SAAMI Pressure is a Mild 15,000 as the .32 H&R Magnum is 21,000 CUP but as we look at the Federal .327 Magnum pressure it has a Huge Major difference being 45,000 P.S.I in case head pressure, so in my eyes an attempt to convert any revolver originally chambered from the time honored .32 S&W Long Cartridge would be a disaster and Major Liability... and the result's would more than Likely be..KA-BOOM...





As I mentioned earlier in my response, I have had just about every handgun S&W Produced in the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge & at one time I had a Model 331 early on when they were available from the factory and bought it New for $475.00 shipped to my FFL Guy. Shortly after getting it about a Month to be exact, I had a barrel loosening issue with mine. I had been carrying it daily and went to the range to fire some hand load's of mine through it. When I drew it out of my Holster I heard a weird Rattling noise. I found the actual barrel insert Loose and unscrewed it with my Thumb from it's outer shroud. I then went home and called S&W service to tell them about it and they had me ship it back into them for repairs. They told me that some of the model 331's had this barrel Loosening issue as the machine that Tighten's the barrel into the gun's frame had some issue in getting them tightly in Place & I sure was Glad that day that I did hear that rattle as firing it like that may have been the end of it's life with a Loose Barrel in it's outer shroud.




While it was at the factory for it's Barrel loosening issues they refinished it as Much of the silver finish had worn off Very prematurely, and I expressed to them that I was not impressed with the gun's finish. Once it arrived back home I swapped it off for a model 631 Lady Smith, as a follow up conversation with them in S&W service revealed that these guns have a Machine sprayed on finish I did not like the idea of carrying a Spray Painted gun, as the service guy told me that they had changed nothing in their guns finish application procedure when they refinished mine for me, so later on he said that I could count on it that the finish would flake off or wear very quickly again. I had the Model 631 Lady-Smith stainless revolver for almost Five Years before I swapped it off and got my Model 431 P.D. Revolver which I still have and carry daily.




But The Model 431 P.D. Had a Problem with it as well so it too has been back to the factory. Shortly after getting it new in Box, I was cleaning it one day after firing roughly 300 Round's through it when I realized that it had some small Chunk's of it's cylinder Extractor star missing. I again called S&W service and they sent a shipping label to me for the gun to be returned to them as these missing pieces would not allow proper lock up in battery mode. They replaced my extractor and returned the gun to me and it has been fine since it came back home back in the summer of 2009.








The Model 631 Lady-Smith was a fine shooter but given the fact it was made totaly out of stainless it weighed a Lot more than the Air-Weight's do so I much Prefer carrying my 431 P.D. revolver now, as I got spolied carrying that model 331 Ti-Scan revolver only weighing 11 O.Z. empty the exact same weight of my current carry gun the model 431 P.D. revolver. In the past I also had a Model 631 Kit Gun with a 4" Barrel. I got it brand new in the box as shown, but was Kind of disapointed with it's accuracy Issue. I hand loaded many different load's for it but could never get the gun to settle down to deliver good accurate tight shot group's on Target so it to was traded off, as I am as much a Shooter as I am a collector of these S&W's so if they don't shoot, & Shoot Good good they have to go.




There was a huge Magazine article written by John Taffin on these Model 631 Kit Guns where he Tested one when they first came out and he too had accuracy issues with the one that he had used for Testing & Evaluating in that article, so I know it was not just me as far as the gun's accuracy went. I have found that the black oxide finish model 431's finish wears much less than the factory's silver finishes did after much carry time, so I am very Pleased with the durability of my Model 431... Here is how my model 331 Looked when I shipped it back to S&W for repairs... along with some Honorable Mentions chambered in .32 H&R Magnum that I have had along the way. If you have any question's about these guns I have mentioned feel free to P.M. me here I would be more than happy to tell you how they faired and perhap's keep you from getting something you may not enjoy in the end. I have Liked all of The S&W's I have had chambered in .32 H&R Magnum caliber, but some have done far better than other's as far as shooting goes. Sorry for the Long winded response here, but as you can see I am Very Passionate about the .32 round, and I hope some of my information here is helpful to someone... Hammerdown




The S&W Model 331 Ti-Scan- Air-Weight Revolver
















The S&W Model 631-4" Kit Gun Revolver chambered in .32 H&R Magnum















The Model 631 Lady-Smith Revolver chambered in .32 H&R Magnum

Interesting thread! Hammerdown's bobcat is one of the stories that persuaded me to try the .32's. I now have a 432 in .32H&R which is quite pleasant and not too expensive to shoot with low powered .32H&R rounds. It's a backup option to an SP101 in .327 Fed.

(Really like the newer S&W 632 in .327, with a c. 2" bbl, but already had the Ruger when that S&W came out. Maybe next time around...)

Anyway, the strategy is the SP101 as a primary loaded with full power .327 rounds. (GDHP's -- as usual -- look very viable in this caliber.) The 432 is a backup, loaded with Buffalo Bore heavy .32H&R's (or, alternatively, Georgia arms has a fairly warm load for less cost.) A speed strip or two with Buffalo Bore .32H&R's, which will work well in either gun, simplifies reloads if an event should go that far.

Same theory as .38/.357 combos, with generally less recoil, and maybe an extra round or two -- but still plenty of power and (albeit not street proven, yet) effectiveness.

Update on "Project 616:" You must use a Model 66 as the base gun to build on. It's the only frame that matches up with the 617 barrel's top rib. I now have a really nice Model 67-1 that I hadn't planned on having. Unfortunately it looks good and shoots very well after replacing damaged grips and sights and it has the nicest out-of-the-box trigger (SA and DA) I've ever found on a stainless Smith. I say "unfortunately" because now I don't want to let it go!

Barrel is WA and everything else is in OH. Just ordered 1000 rounds of Starline brass which should arrive in about 3 weeks. Oh, the waiting, the waiting!

Froggie

Hello dugo
Glad to see you decided to join us other .32 Nut's here on the exciting Federal .327 Magnum Band wagon. Back when I harvested that large Bob-Cat I had my son in law with me that day. It was his first ever Deer hunt and a day he will never forget. He was more Pumped up about my Bob-Cat harvest than I was, and I was glad he was along for the ride. I have promised him my Bob-Cat mount when I leave this old world, so he can share the stories with my Grand kid's and perhaps their Grand Kids. We Had Learned of this Bob-Cat's existence from our friend who let's us hunt his land for Deer. Apparently it had come up into his back yard twice while he wife was out in the yard during the day time, Which is Not Normal for any Bob-Cat to do, so he asked me to Eliminate it if it crossed my path and I assured him that I would if Given the chance to. A week before Deer season I worked very hard on assembling the correct hunting round for this Ca, and once I arrived at one hole group's out of my S&W by hand loading for it I assured my son in law that if I saw this cat in the woods during our deer hunt that I would drop it in it's Track's with my New then Bowen conversion of the Federal .327 Magnum round that my S&W Model 16-4 Now was. I hand rolled the load for it and shot many of them I thin around 400 round's of it at the range prior to the opening day of Deer season to insure accuracy the day I hunted with it. Oddly, The load I had selected was as scary accurate at 50 Yards as it was at the 25 Yard line with little difference in bullet drop giving me consistent group's the size of a dime if I did my part right. The Sierra 90 Grain Sport's Master Hollow point bullet's that I used in my load sure did their job wel in Harvesting this large Cat but Finding Bullets for the .32 round can be a huge challenge at times these day's. I have Two dozen Boxes of Hornady's XTP's on hand in 85 & 100 Grain weight for hunting as well as some more Sierra's. For serious Target work I have often chose Rainier Ballistic's Lead safe bullets. I like them so much due to their Inherent accuracy Potential that I just ordered 2000 More of them yesterday. Rainier bullet's are double struck so their shape is very close in tollerance. They apply a thin .005" copper flash covering on their bullet's which keep the bore from leading up, yet allow for a medium crimp on the heavier Magnum style loads. They Offer Two Bullets in the .32 H&R Magnum type, one being a flat Point style bullet and the other being a hollow point style bullet, both iare in 100 Grain weight so they pack a serious punch out of the Federal .327 Magnuim Load's. I have recovered some of the Rainier Ballistic slug's from the soft sand Berm at our Range after being fired through my S&W and they actually Mushroom far Better than the Hornady's or Sierra's do in diameter holding most of their weight when they come to rest in the soft sand. I have not tried them for hunting Purposes, but with their supreme accuracy Potential, and Large Mushroom effect I think perhaps this year I will Load some to take along with me Deer hunting with me. With the copper flash coating they have over them and the soft lead construction of the inner bullet I feel they should give Excellent Jack Hammer results on Harvesting Game. Here is a link to Rainier Ballistic's & I Highly suggest that you or other's should give their bullets a work out if you re-load they are a True Blessing as they are moderate in price but Huge on Accuracy & performance. I have Turned on many of my friend's to these Rainier Ballistic Bullet's in the past Five years that I have been using them and all of them have been super satisfied, and many of them that gave up their habit of Frequent shooting due to the higher bullet prices that one has to pay for the Hornady's & Sierra bullet's are now back at the range banging away with these Rainier Bullet's. I even use them in my Pre-25 that is chambered in .45 A.C.P. Caliber of which I chose the 200 Grain Semi Wad cutter bullet design and they give me a one hole ragged group that you can cover with a quarter at the 25 Yard line. Get ya some, they work super and Don't break the bank when you Purchase them... Regards, Hammerdown

Rainier Ballistics, LLC | Welcome

I have always wanted a Mod 16, (or K32), but have never had the opportunity to buy one and now probably couldn't afford one. I have seen where several have taken and had k Frame .32's made from .22 cal. barrels and cylinders. Why wouldn't it be feasible to have a K38 barrel and chambers sleeved. I did have Dave Chicoine sleeve a 22/32 target for me and it worked well. Is there some technical problem, (like too thin a sleeve barrel) or something that would prevent this? Seems like could be an easier option. (I looked for .22 barrels and cylinders and had no luck finding any.)

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Hello HRichard
IMHO I think due to the Extreme higher pressure of the Federal .327 Magnum round it would not be wise to attempt placing a sleeved barrel in a conversion of this round. Since the average SAAMI Pressure of the Federal .327 Magnum round which is over 45,000 PSI which is in Excess of the more popular .357 Magnum cartridide Pressure's I fear a huge liability would be involved in barrel sleeving for it. Bowen will punch out a .22 caliber barrel or .22 bore cylinder for this cartridge but I am not aware of any other caliber's he would use to convert this caliber change to. The sweet part is if you can locate a Model 16-4 revolver which is all ready chambered in the .32 H&R Magnum cartridge all he has to do it lengthen the cylinder throats roughly an 1/8" to make his conversion to the Federal .327 Magnum work, and I only had to pay $95.00 for that Job on mine when I had it done. I am Very Blessed to also have a Pre-16 and it is a Five screw Wide rib revolver from 1951 time span. Bowen could not convert this revolver either as it's cylinder window is far too short to make the Federal .327 Magnum cartridge work in the gun. I don't know why anyone would even think of molesting one of thse classic's in .32 S&W Long caliber any way do to their high collector value, one would have to be insane or have more money than brains to try modifing one in any way or form. Mine shoots as good as it looks and really produces some nice tight shooting groups, when I do my part right, it comes through Very well on Target... Hammerdown

Thanks, that's about what I expected, the pressure primarily. Looks like I'll keep looking for a 16-4, 6", which may be easier to find than 17 barrel & cylinder.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Hammerdown;
Those are really nice handguns, for sure! Great pictures, also.

I, too, am a bit of a fan of .32's. I have a Smith .32 S&W Long snubbie and looked long and hard, for years, for a Model 16. I found a few over the years but I was always behind the price curve. No joy!

Then Ruger came out with the single six in .32 H&R Magnum. I bought one and promised myself if anyone came out with a double action I would jump on it. Smith did just that a short time later and here is the result:



This VERY NICE piece has taken quite a few different species of edible small game (grouse, rabbits, etc) and is a joy to carry (offside) while bird hunting.

Not long after the 631, Smith brought out the 16-4. I picked the 6" and mounted a scope, first, then later a Red Dot. I had it out a couple of days ago using a home cast Lee 90 gr W/C TL with excellent results. Lee discontinued this mould in six cavity, dern the luck as it works well in both the .32 S&W Long and the .32 H&R Magnum. Green Frog was visiting when we made up a batch of Recluse's 45-45-10 tumble lube formula (it works VERY well without the downside of Lee's tumble lube formula).



When Ruger released the SP 101 with a 4" barrel in .32 H&R magnum I picked up one of these. It shoots well but the "adjustable" sight was a disappointment. I could NOT zero any load I tried with that abomination of a rear sight adjustable only for windage. I took it to my pistolsmith and even tho' he thought that I had lost my mind, he installed a mount base for a Red Dot sight. Now, the revolver is accurate, hits where it is supposed to and all in all a VERY satisfactory little piece:



All in all, I am pretty happy with my little group of .32's. However, I admit to a certain wistfulness when I think of Green Frog's custom revolver that is under construction. Well, a feller just cannot have EVERYTHING, now can we?

Dale53

Actually, the Model 617 barrels seem to still be available, at least for the time being. I saw them listed in Brownell's and I believe a couple of other places may have them as well.

Both Hamilton Bowen and Andy Horvath have expressed an unwillingness to line the 38/357 barrel because when they drill the original to take a .314" sleeve (groove diameter) there would be so little of the wall left to support the pressures involved with the 327 Fed Mag.

I do admit to grabbing up one of the last available 617-1 cylinders around, in fact it was apparently the last one at GPC/Numrich. The good news is that for just a little more, you can buy one of the ones Hamilton Bowen makes from scratch, and you know it will be long enough and otherwise just "right" for the project. IIRC, this would just add about $60-70 to the total cost of the build.

If you can find a suitable Model 66 as a "base gun" to build on, you should be good to go.

Froggie

What I'm looking for is Blued.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I know this is now an old thread, but for reasons of family and work/travel distractions I lost track of it until I recently got some time to catch up with the .32 phenom.

First, Hammerdown, if you happen back by: thanks for taking the time for your above reply. Wish I had responded to it earlier, but still interesting and fun reading.

I believe a friend of mine has used the bullets you mentioned to good effect. Thanks for the heads-up. I'm not reloading right now, but will probably take it up again before long and will keep this info in mind.

I was dismayed to learn that Ruger had discontinued the SP101 in .327. Hopefully, this won't be a permanent move, and they will do a run from time to time.

Seems like the round is receding from the public attention for a while, though. This is understandable as the current "emotiono-political" diatribe once again drives so many folks to chase and store the old standby's -- but it is disappointing anyway.

Silver lining is that I came across some GD .327's at half price from a shop that anticipated reduced demand, and there seem to be more .32's and .327's on the shelf in the short run.

... Is S&W still in the .327 market? I would still like to hook a S&W 2-inch .632-2 Pro at some point (if I got that designation right), but can't afford to chase it quite yet. Still have not heard anything but praise for them, and it might be just right for CCW.

Here is my 2 1/8" .327 Federal Magnum 632-2, SKU #178046, aka the '632 Pro'. Mine sports some S&W '60 Pro' grips, which are perfect for the .327 Federal Magnum recoil. I got mine when they finally shipped in early 9/11 locally for $648 inc s/t. Mine, which also has shot .32 ACP/S&W/S&WL/H&RM as well as .327 Federal Magnum has a home - especially since S&W dropped it! I expect it's value to climb, a la my 696's some years back!



Note it was made 8/11 - and has no IL! Those are CCI 115gr Gold Dots (.327 Federal Magnum) in the HKS #32-J speedloader. Loud and flashy - and a bit of recoil in the 23 oz revolver! Hits coincident POI/POA at 5-12 yd with a 6 o'clock 'combat' sighting.

Stainz

See? There's another nice word for the 632-2. Stainz, you are the envy of ... well ... me for sure, at least.

Thanks for posting this one up. I am going to put this thread on Favorites, just so I can look back at that picture now and then.

Hope you get the expected value from this gun, but for myself I hope S&W deigns to do a run of these once in a while.

Best, --D.

Yes, me too and a K frame!
I thought this would satiate my appetite:

A 1959 vintage 22 Mag ‘only’ Single Six conversion to centerfire and 32 H&R Mag with factory barrel and cyl. Then reamed to 327 Fed Mag.



In these two shots, you can see where I plugged and re-drilled lower to re-install the firing pin and recoil plate for center fire.




But after seeing Froggie's, I gotta have a Smith .327 too!
I have a nice Model 15 and a 4" 22 Remington Jet barrel with 1/2 shroud like all Smith K magnums have except the Mod 48. It's going to Clear Water for re boring while I look for a 22 cylinder for it. As Froggie said, the rib on the barrel is too wide, but a simple millimg cut on each side will do the trick and give an early '50s look to the gun.

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Jim
S&WCA #819

Last weeks project for kinfolk. He almost didn't get this little jewel back. 432PD H&R MAG

Attached Images

432pd.jpg (9.6 KB, 59 views)

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KMAG YOYO

After shooting my K-frame 327 FM with less-than-full house loads, I think my personal upper limit for the small frame guns would be the top 32 S&WL or perhaps 32 H&R Mag. I can shoot my 32 S&W L HE snub pretty much all day while ignoring the recoil, but the Baby Chief can get my attention with 38 Spl +Ps. My personal limits then, are easy to define. I might buy a 631 four inch with adjustable sights if it presented itself, but the idea of a J-frame in 327 FM seems like too much of a good thing. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

Froggie

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Haven't shot a 632 (alas), but the airweight model 432 in .32 H&R is pretty comfortable with light .32 H&R rounds, compared directly to the low-powered .38 rounds in a similar .38 snub.

Inside the versitility of the .327, the .32 H&R itself seems to provide a pretty wide variety of power/recoil options. The low-end .32 H&R's seem tame (comparatively speaking), and easy to shoot in moderate volumes, even from the airweight. Same time, the stuff from companies like GA Arms and (especially) B. Bore do juice the recoil up to feel (to me) more like .38's, but they seem to provide realistic self-defense power levels in return.

This with factory loads.

Once you get to steel frames, even the hotter factory .32H&R's in a j-frame might be fairly moderate on the hands.