Hey guys, new to the forum. I know this is an ongoing topic, and i've read all the post involving this. But this is my story. I just purchased a brand new 686-6 yesterday. And yes, you guessed it, I didn't learn of the canted barrel until i got it home and researched it! I called the s&w customer service and they said go shoot it first, then if it doesn't shoot straight we"ll send you a shipping label. As far as i know, it shot o.k. It just so happens, the range i shoot at, has a pprofessional gunsmith! So after shooting I asked him if I should send it back to S&W. He examined the gun as if he really cared. He stuck his feeler guage down the barrel and it stopped at the end closest to the chamber. He said, not only is your barrel canted, When they overtorqued the barrel, it made the barrel untrue. Less inside diameter at one end than the other. Therefore he said the gun will never shoot as accurate as it should. He said when you send it back, ask for a new barrel, not just uncant the barrel.I'm confident they will make it right. I paid top dollar, so I want what I paid for! Please chime in!

Call S&W and tell them what the gunsmith told you. The gun dealer who sold you the gun shouldn't get a free pass either.

I don't much care for the "if the gun shoots straight, then it's alright" excuse. If the gun looks bad -- that it was not even put together straight -- then that should be enough to demand a fix.

It has been helpful though reading all these canted barrel posts -- I now automatically inspect every revolver I pick up!

The gun dealer shouldn't be penalized for S+W's mess up.

You're never going to see a dealer checking over brand new guns for defects and then sending them back for correction.

Hell, if he did that with Smith and Wesson's garbage he'd go broke.

That is seriously deficient customer service. Even if the gun shoots ok, the barrel needs to be on straight. What the hell?

I long for the days when a canted-barrel was not even an issue. It's something you simply never had to pay attention to in the "older" guns. But....I suppose back-n-the-day has passed us all by. I never purchase a new new Smith anymore.....for lots of reasons and god knows....I love my Smith's.

You know, I wish a Smith employee would come in here incognito and explain to us the canted barrel thing.

I'm sure a few frequent this site.

If I worked on the production line, I'd be a sad bunny reading all the negativity here with current production guns.

Whoever made my 686 last May did a beautiful job on it. I can't say enough times what a well made gun it is and such a joy to shoot.

There is now 3 new Smiths on my wish list. I hope these will be as good

I know what they say and I have heard manufacturers of other products say it....."don't pay any attention to what you read on that internet".

Yea, we should only believe what the gunrags tell us.

Gunrags which only coincidentally happen to be full of said manufacturers paid advertising. Regards 18DAI

Dealer networks exist for many products you buy, I am a dealer, I look over products before they are sold and "have" to take responsibility for warranty issues. The gun shops should do the same, not just push **** out the door. And yes, it costs money but it's doing the right thing, not making excuses. Just like you I weed out the junk and they hear about it.

well, s&w sent me the free shipping label within 24 hrs online. It is off back to them. I told them I want it done right, and my gunsmith will be inspecting it!!

Frustrating to read all of the stories about canted barrels.

I posted in another thread in this section about a new 629 classic with Power Port that I bought last week from buds. It arrived at the FFL this week and found to have a canted barrel. Thankfully I knew to look and refused the transfer. It is going back to the dealer (hopefully) soon and I will get a refund. I posted pics of the 629 in that thread.

It isn't just S&W. I bought a Ruger Redhawk 4" in 44 Mag about a month ago. I didn't know to look for a canted barrel. I got it home and noticed the front sight was leaning. Upon further inspection, I found the barrel to have a heavy cant. Ruger took it back for return, and the gunsmith there recommended a replacement. That sounded great when they told me, until I spoke to the customer service rep yesterday. Basically, they aren't doing much of any factory production runs for 44Mag and 454 Casull wheel guns. The ones they are planning to do are basically allocated, and Ruger return centers have to submit orders to the factory just like distributors. So, the short version is there is no certain date on when I will get my replacement Redhawk.

Yesterday I went out for the local gun store circuit at lunch (there are a few around where I work) and looked at two Rugers Redhawks of recent manufacture. One of them had a clearly canted barrel. I don't know what it is about the manufacture process, but it appears both S&W and Ruger are having a tough time at it. And these are not cheap guns! Thankfully I haven't hit a wall where I can't get my money back.

I hope S&W makes it right for you. I was concerned with having issues getting S&W to repair the 629 enough to not even want to bother with it.

I have been on the hunt for a 686P 6" locally for awhile. On my weekly lgs browsing route I found two. And wouldnt you know it, they both had distincly canted barrels. What a let down. The big box store employee of course said, "well if you purchased it S&W will correct it". I almost hit the floor. I think he was offended when I suggested that they contact S&W and have it corrected before selling a firearm with a known flaw. I did however find a new 586 that was flawless. maybe I should switch gears and pick it up instead.

your're right crazyponie. Its amazing that he would sell you that gun knowing that the barrel is canted!!! Its more like, just give me your money and then thats between you and S&W!!!!!!!!!

I just bought a 617 4 inch and had the canted barrell. I sent it in and 1 week later I had a new gun and they replacedthe frame. Gun looks like it should now. their customer service seems good to me.

You can watch this video about S&W and you can see how they install the barrels at the factory. If you don't want to watch the whole video, jump to 3:40 for barrel installation and alignment. Looks like the guy with the big wrench could just visually align the barrel. Check it out. Bob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3HDLkB5l8

Interesting... After watching that video, I am blown away that I can still get a canted barrel. All that handling, with the same individual performing multiple steps after the barrel is "aligned" means there are numerous opportunities for a canted barrel to be caught.

The replacement of frames and entire firearms for canted barrels would seem to indicate that once a barrel is installed with a cant, it can't just be corrected in a vise. Structurally there must be something else going on.

I wonder if that is where the problem is. If the employee has over-turned the barrel, maybe they can't just "back it up," but have to reject it. If this happens with some regularity, then maybe it draws unwanted visibility to the employee. Perhaps its factory management's desire to reduce their metrics for rejects due to barrel cant or whatever to increase efficiency and yield numbers. Either of these factors could put pressure on employees to allow **** to leave the assembly line. Or, it could be plain old dereliction of duty. All just speculation, but you could see how the dynamics in a factory could lead to this.

This should be a non-issue. As soon as more than one revolver returns with a canted barrel, S&W should know exactly where on the production line the failure is occurring.

Well, I just looked at my 686 and sure enough, it is canted as well. Guess S&W is going to get a call from me as well. Serial number CSBxxxx and with a fired cartridge date of 11/01/11. I was wondering why it is was off a little bit to the right.

Pretty disappointing. I was going to buy a Shield .40 but they are having issues as well so I bought this as a something to appease me until my XDS comes in.

yeh, i wished i would have read this forum before i bought my 686-6, but just like so many others i just didnt expect it. Hopefully s&w will make it right

After purchasing three non functional 1911's in the 70's, the 80's & 90's trust me your not alone. I had to purchase the how to fix and tune the 1911 dvd's but thats another story.

I just got into the S&W's being older now and wanting the finer things in life. I'd like to know how good S&W is at standing behind there new products so keep us posted about the repairs and how it goes. Please give them a rating on how fast the turn around time is too besides there service. Bill

I would think the gun dealer would stand behind what he sells too and get involved too. I would think the dealer would handle it all for you.

yeh you would think the dealer would. They sent me a free shipping label in 24hrs, so i just let fedex pick it up from my house. They said it will be 4-5 weeks, but I'm guessing thats worst case. As long as they get it back fixed correctly

After looking at the youtube video I am surprised they ever get the correct alignment or correct torque. No tool for visual alignment and no torque specification? Designing a fixture that would do one or the other would be pretty simple.

If S&W is an ISO 9000 company, this should be corrected internally, or else the Quality System is non-functional. When a product is returned and the QC program did not catch it - there is a serious problem internally. I can't imagine they are not ISO 900x approved as an international company.

One thing that put the Ruger LCR on my radar as a revolver I would consider buying new, is that the barrel shroud is cast as part of the frame. Essentially, it can't cant.

The LCR may be unlovely, but I can appreciate the way Ruger took a fresh look at revolver design from a materials and assembly standpoint. They accept the reality that the modern worker is not a skilled craftsman, so assembly is largely with drop-in parts and no hand fitting needed.

In the past year I sent back a 625 PC with a canted barrel. I never gave it a thought to check barrel alignment when I picked the revolver up at my LGS. The peanut gallery at the shop was heckling the gaudy red white and blue laminated grips so much I was distracted from careful inspection. I didn't care about the grips as I was swapping them out for stuff I had in my inventory.

Upon shooting the gun I had to move the rear sight to extreme right to get center of the target at 50'. That is when I noticed the dreaded canting. I headed home, contacted S&W and they emailed a FedEx label. I boxed it up along with a description of the problem as well as a complaint about the grips and a description of the sight alignment, I then called FedEx. They picked the packaged up at my home within 2 hours.

S&W repaired the canted barrel, installed new Talo like lami grips, bagged up the original grips and included in the box, threw another rear sight in the box and returned to my home in 10 days. Why the extra rear sight I do not know but it is nice to have as I am a revolver nut.

I'm satisfied now but.......I will never walk out of another gun shop without carefully inspecting my purchase regardless of the distractions. I will never assume a product has been quality assured just from ISO, Performance Center and other advertising gimmicks. All this returning for what should have been done on date of birth has got to inflate the heck out of prices. Perhaps it is still cheaper than doing in house quality control. In the future I will look closer before I leap.

Maybe I'm missing something but every canted barrel I've seen, the top of the barrel seems to be perfectly flat/parallel and even to the top of the frame and the sight perfectly vertical. The flaw seems to only be on the sides of the barrel not being centered to the frame. If you were to twist it one way or the other, the top would no longer be parallel. It's as if the bore is made slightly off center when they machine the barrel. Does that make sense?

As with a Ruger LCR (I have one of the .357 models), I have a 2-piece barrel S&W Model 66-7. The sleave is cant-proof. Great gun -- and very accurate.

How about this. Got this going on in another post.[ATTACH]82571[/ATTACH] I can shoot around corners

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Iphone 8-11-12 329.jpg (30.8 KB, 325 views)

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M&P 45,642,686p,629,Model 10

Odd – My 4” 686-6 (also serial number CSB XXXX) had a canted barrel. Slight but there.

Sent it in, had it back right at 2 weeks.
Shoots like a laser now with sights dead center, so I’m a happy camper.
Hope it works out for you. The 686 really is worth the head-ache, imo…

My 686-1 had a canted barrel, so the problem has been in existence for awhile.

I'm shopping for couple new Smith revolvers (617 & 586) but this thread almost has me scared to purchase one.

I just bought a 586-8 In 4' and 6" barrels and both had straight barrels. just don't buy sight unseen. My guns are beautiful and very accurate.

I purchased a brand new 686 3 inch with a canted barrel and uneven grind marks on one side of the frame where the finisher clearly messed up. I sent it back to S&W who did the right thing and sent me a brand new replacement but it also had a canted barrel and the frame was worse than the first one. I sent it back again and S&W told me that there was nothing they could do about the canted barrel or frame. They said they have this problem all the time but the guns will still shoot straight. They refused to fix the issues and sent the revolver back to me untouched. I guess they are no longer fixing customers canted barrels. Make sure to check your possible purchase over well before buying because S&W quality control and customer service is not what it used to be.

As much as it pains me, my 586 no-dash is canted as well. Anyone have the number for S&W so I can get a shipping label? I have never dealt with their C/S before. Anything I should know?

I purchased a 686-6 over a year ago and didnt pay much attention to the side of the barrel that has a bit of a bubbled seem on one side that mates againts the frame. Ive noticed it seems to be off centered when i shoot it and the cylinder is getting somewhat looser. All told Ive shot it less than a handful of times. After researching online tonight, it seems the frames were drilled off center for the barrels.This would explain alot. I hope Smith and Wesson makes this right. Im sure they will tell me its out of the 1 year warranty but if it a manufactures defect, shouldnt there be some liability on their end? I am going to find a good gunsmith to get the gun reviewed before I contact them. Ive seen the videos where they try to 'recant their "canted" barrels'. Thank God nobody has been seriously injured by their carelessness!

I've always had a problem with the term 'crush fit' as applied to gun barrels.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Top gun manufacturer has difficulty screwing barrels straight to the frame.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

There are newer & better threads on this subject. Generally, it would seem S&W has largely fixed this problem, although it appears there has been a rash of 617s posted about this problem more recently.

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NRA Benefactor

After reading through this thread, it occurred to me that S&W might easily solve the problem with canted barrels by going back to the pinned barrel. I don't recall that the older guns had this problem.

They've solved the problem on many of their guns by going to the 2-piece barrel. Some folks don't like the 2-piece barrels, but my most accurate revolver has a 2-piece barrel, so I'm sold on them.

Barrel alignment on Pro Series touted in that video.



I sent it in on Monday.

The pin will allow the barrel to move an easy 5 degrees in either direction before the little channel in the barrel shank hits it. No way it will insure a non canted barrel.

A torque wrench set up will not do it. I have removed and installed barrels all on older pinned guns and they all have some difference in amount of pressure needed to loosen and tighten. Just an educated guess by someone who has tightened a huge number of fasteners I would estimate it is somewhere between 50 ft# on the low end to maybe 80 on the high. With fine threads like the 36 to the inch used on S&W barrels it doesn't take much torque to load the mating surfaces a bunch. Think of thread pitch as a ramp or even a lever, finer the pitch the less angle on ramp and the easier to move load up the ramp or the more leverage you have. Industry fine thread bolts often call out a higher torque than coarse but, that is because something needing more load pressure will call out for fine threads and fine threads have more engagement surface and will take a bit more pressure before failure. There is also no need for a jig, although a setup that coordinated the front sight and a spot on the frame or the wrench would work if used correctly.

What there is a need for is a trained eye and someone who wants to get it right. Or S&W allowing the person doing this work enough time to make sure they get it right. Some one who isn't well trained or doesn't care wouldn't be consistent even with a jig if they didn't setup or use the jig right.

You can tell just about how much force it is going to take by where the barrel snugs up before final tightening. I use a vise with hardwood pads for the barrel and a frame wrench. Last few degrees I go slow and check by eye, move it a tiny bit and check, tighten check. The longer the handle on the wrench the more control you would have. A 12 " handle means 0.1 inches of movement on the end of the handle will give you 1 degree, a 16 handle means 0.14= 1 degree Unless your ham handed or half blind its not hard to get it right. I could see a tiny bit, but not what I am hearing about.

I really don't understand how this can be happening on a regular bases. Either assemblers are not well trained, don't care or are given way to much work load.

ISO 9000 certification alone guarantees nothing nor does it purport to. It's what may or may not come after that insures a good product. Statistical Process Control (SPC) is what attempts to assure the character of the product. As evidence that S&W uses SPC is the fact that the first S&W wonder plastic autoloader was called the SIGMA. This implies that S&W uses a 3 sigma process. They couldn't possibly know if they were 3 sigma compliant unless they used SPC. I venture to say that if properly implemented a 3 sigma process would produce a very good gun of just about any kind. There would be very few failures of any kind including cosmetic.

In a factory such as S&Ws with so many defects we see here on a nearly daily basis that their SPC is poorly implemented or is too easily circumvented. By the time a revolver reaches the state where the barrel is being screwed into the frame the company has substantial investment in the nearly complete revolver. Even if the revolver fails a quality check, either a supervisor or engineer may intercede and order the revolver to carry on. I think this is what may be happening. In a perfect world a part that fails is usually called scrap or junk. Sometimes, scrap or junk can be reworked to bring it into compliance, sometimes not. Whether a part is thrown away or reworked, it's an expensive proposition.

Inspection of parts by someone other than the person that produced the part is also expensive. It's called a "non value added process" meaning that inspection of a good part adds nothing to the value of the part although they have to pay a person to do the inspection. In lean economic times or if they shift folks around to make parts in anticipation of a boom, the first to go are the inspectors because "on paper" they don't directly add to the companies bottom line. Of course, without them, the companies repair department will soon have to add staff.

Frequently, the parts producer will do the inspection. That is attractive to manufactures because theoretically a CNC operator can run their multiple machines while doing the inspection in their supposed "down" time. This is problematic for multiple reason. First is some folks don't like to admit their mistakes. They'd rather pass the part on than admit they made a bad part. Second, sometimes they have so many machines to run they really don't have time to do an adequate inspection.

In a factory, every part has a specification. The part usually is required to meet these specification +/- some value. Engineers usually set all these specification. Properly implemented SPC will drive the parts measurements to nominal. Done correctly an inspector can tell if a machine bit is wearing out or if a machine needs adjustment or maintenance.

I don't work for S&W, nor have I ever. I did work in a factory for 30 years on a product far more complicated than gun making. But, it doesn't matter whether the product is a pencil or space shuttles the ideology is all the same.

Questions?

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I am not giving S&W a pass by any means but I just don't understand why people will accept a firearm without looking it over first. Would you buy a new car with a large dent in the door? Probably not.

I have purchased 20+ new Smith's over the past several years. I have never had one with a canted barrel, however, I did get a 629 Classic from Bud's where the frame was scratched up badly and the timing was off on four of the six chambers during cylinder rotation. I found all of this before I accepted the weapon, had my FFL send it back and got a new one from Bud's that came in perfect condition.

The gun should never have left the factory in that condition, however, a quick 3 to 4 minute check of the weapon PRIOR to accepting it and doing the transfer saved me a lot of hassle later on.

Speaking for myself, I can say that for some unknown reason I get nervous when I pick up a revolver. Autoloaders not so much. I did get a new M67 earlier this year. I knew enough to check it out thoroughly, but I was still shaking a tad. I felt a little foolish. I have bought guns new in the past that had small defects that I didn't notice when I bought them.

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NRA Benefactor

Unfortunately, it's the small dent in the door that you don't notice until you get home with it. Just like a slightly canted barrel or some other imperfection on a gun.

That's true. I guess after all the years of reading these forums I now know what to look for. If someone is new to the revolver world I could see a slightly canted barrel getting by.

"He stuck his feeler guage down the barrel"
Are you referring to a range rod, here?