617 Forcing Cone

[DaveBreck]

First of all hello to everyone here at S&W Forum. This is my first post as well as the reason for joining this forum so here goes. I'm looking for advice on what to do about my brand new M617. I purchased it new at my LGS 3 days ago and after cleaning the barrel with intention to head to the range I saw this in the forcing cone. Heavy buildup of lead at the rifling origin, and a machine line just in from the start of the FC. Also there is a significant burr around the outside of the FC not evident in the photos. It appears to me that the forcing cone is not fully machined to depth. So should I shoot it, send it back to Smith or am I just looking for trouble. Your opinins much needed and appreciated. Thanks, Dave

[JAREDSHS]

Dave, if you contact S&W, the first thing they are going to ask you is--- "how does it shoot?" so you might as well get it over with. go to the
range and see how it does, it may surprise you, if it won't shoot , then you have information to work with.

[Camster]

Uneven leading might suggest that the end is not square.
I'm of the opinion that most Smiths have a burr on one side-simply from the barrel being cut off.It doesn't affect anything,and can be easily removed if it bothers you.

[DaveBreck]

Another thing that concerns me is that in measuring the cyl. gap the feeler gage starts in easy then gets tighter toward the middle. Like the forcing cone surface is slightly bowed out.

[Tom C]

From the photos the forcing cone looks pretty shallow. If you have or plan to have more than one .22 revo, you might want to consider getting the forcing cone reamer from Brownell’s. That way you can recut the forcing cones of your revos as necessary. That appears to be the case here.

[DaveBreck]

Tom C, That's what I think too. If it is cut too shallow S&W should repair it right?

[cptdco]

Dave, here's a couple of ideas: are you familiar with using "Chore Boy" strands for lead removal? You can do a chore boy search on the forum, but its a pot scruber pad available at supermarkets. Pull and cut some strands off and wrap them around a bore brush and carefully push it down your bore or, better yet, push a bore brush through and when it comes out past the forcing cone, then wrap the strands around it and pull it ito the cone and give it a few twists and work it back and forth. The sharp edges of the brass strands will cut the lead build-up out of the FC and the grooves without harming anything. I also keep some pieces of thin brass sheets from a hobby shop and have cut them into small scrapers...I would try that on the back of the FC, and I'd also rub it down with a lead removal cloth available at any decent shooting supply shop / gun store. Try those lead removal / clean-up techniques and see if it looks better.

[n8dawg6]

I would shoot it before I did anything else. see where its printing and what the groups look like. if the leading is an issue, run a bronze brush through it and scrub it out.

if leading is a recurring problem, or if accuracy is poor, or if POI is a long way from the sights so that it requires excessive adjustment, then I would contact S&W.

[steamloco76]

My 17-8 ten shot originally had the aluminum cylinder. It took less than 2000 rounds before the gun was seriously out of time and binding. S&W replaced the cylinder with a new stainless model and re-cut the forcing cone. Problem is, now the cone on my revolver looks like yours! Mine will group just about any ammo under 2 inches at 25 yards, however it spits and builds-up lead like crazy. I may take the advice offered earlier and get a forcing cone reamer from Brownells.

[gwpercle]

Dave

Read your post today, I have a model 617 but it's at home .
I will look at mine and photo it's barrel to compare to yours.
I Don't remember what it looks like, but it does not have any issues . It is accurate and doesn't spit lead . Will post pics this evening when I get home. Rember 22's are dirty shooters and leave crud all over the gun. Don't do anything to the gun just yet you may not have a problem at all.

gary

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by DaveBreck

Tom C, That's what I think too. If it is cut too shallow S&W should repair it right?

The factory should be willing to fix it, but for something small like this, I would rather do it myself. They have some very good gunsmiths, but I prefer to reserve them for something more important like replacing a cylinder.

[DaveBreck]

I took it to the range today and was, to put it mildly, disappointed. I also took my old K22. That gun shoots great and has a much better action than my new 617. Anyway the accuracy was in the 4-5 inch range shooting from a rest and the barrel leaded badly ahead of the forcing cone. I still feel as though the forcing cone is not cut properly since a bullet pushed into the FC will not go in past the shoulder. In my old K22 it will go in almost up to the brass.

[gwpercle]

Dave,
Got photo's of my 317, I thought it was a 617, but it is a 22
L. R. , and my forcing cone looks just like yours. There seems to be no forcing cone at all. My photo's are not quite as good as yours, but wih a flashlight I can see the rifling starts about 3/32 inch into the barrel and there is no funnel cut into end of barrel like you think the words " forcing cone" would imply. I've shot mine a lot and no problems . I say go shoot it and see...the proof is in the target.
How did you light up the inside of your bbl. I had light and flash and you really can't see inside mine like your photo,s show.
After looking closer at your photo's I see the line inside, You know I'm now thinking a trip back to your dealer and let him look at it might be in order, it sure seems like it could be smoother. Sending stuff back to S&W is time consuming and if it could be taken care of locally that would be better. Maybe dealer can help you with this.
Just read your last post...and the targets don't lie, something not right here . Bring it back to dealer , if he wants your repeat business he should help you.

Hope this helps,
gary

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by DaveBreck

I took it to the range today and was, to put it mildly, disappointed. I also took my old K22. That gun shoots great and has a much better action than my new 617. Anyway the accuracy was in the 4-5 inch range shooting from a rest and the barrel leaded badly ahead of the forcing cone. I still feel as though the forcing cone is not cut properly since a bullet pushed into the FC will not go in past the shoulder. In my old K22 it will go in almost up to the brass.

The bad news is: you have a problem. The good news is: it is easy to fix. If they don't give you a free shipping label and you would have to send it to the factory on your dime, it might actually be cheaper to buy the reamer kit and do it yourself rather than ship it. It is easy to do and you have a nice feeling of accomplishment when you are done. However you do it, you will see a dramatic difference afterward.

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by gwpercle

Dave,
Got photo's of my 317, I thought it was a 617, but it is a 22
L. R. , and my forcing cone looks just like yours. There seems to be no forcing cone at all. My photo's are not quite as good as yours, but wih a flashlight I can see the rifling starts about 3/32 inch into the barrel and there is no funnel cut into end of barrel like you think the words " forcing cone" would imply. I've shot mine a lot and no problems . I say go shoot it and see...the proof is in the target.
How did you light up the inside of your bbl. I had light and flash and you really can't see inside mine like your photo,s show.
After looking closer at your photo's I see the line inside, You know I'm now thinking a trip back to your dealer and let him look at it might be in order, it sure seems like it could be smoother. Sending stuff back to S&W is time consuming and if it could be taken care of locally that would be better. Maybe dealer can help you with this.
Just read your last post...and the targets don't lie, something not right here . Bring it back to dealer , if he wants your repeat business he should help you.

Hope this helps,
gary

To my eye your forcing cone doesn't look anything like Dave's. You actually have a forcing cone, even if is a little shallow. Dave just has a hint of a cone. It is totally ineffective. Yours is ok. You could make it a touch deeper if you wanted, but if it is working, why mess with it. Dave needs some work. Fortunately it is fairly simple and doesn't take much time.

[DaveBreck]

Gentlemen I can't thank you enough for your excellent input. Another thing I forgot to mention is that the lead shaving and splatter on the top strap is like nothing I've seen before. I contacted my dealer today and he will send it back on S&w's dime so that's good. I believe that fixing it myself would indeed be a satisfying process but Gee whiz shouldn't S&W be aware of their Mfg. problems and foot the repair bill? Well that's my way of thinking. Anyway it's going back to Smith.
Again thanks for all the assistance and God Bless.

[CALREB]

Dave, Good choice, if you bought the gun used, or messed it up yourself, thats another matter. But when you spend alot of money to buy a NEW gun .
Why have more expense , or take a chance of messing it up, when its simple to have the manufacturer fix it. For all you know , there could be other issues, yoke alignment or something else, let them sort it out and fix it. Good luck,

[DaveBreck]

Ok here's the new forcing cone. I just picked it up today and went to the range on the way home. I'm quite disappointed in the accuracy so far. Could be because there was so much lead in the barrel. See the photos of what I got out not counting what I dropped on the floor. At least now I have a proper FC.

[one eye joe]

Originally Posted by DaveBreck

I took it to the range today and was, to put it mildly, disappointed. I also took my old K22. That gun shoots great and has a much better action than my new 617. Anyway the accuracy was in the 4-5 inch range shooting from a rest and the barrel leaded badly ahead of the forcing cone. I still feel as though the forcing cone is not cut properly since a bullet pushed into the FC will not go in past the shoulder. In my old K22 it will go in almost up to the brass.

Welcome to the forum, Dave. Call S&W , get a shipping label, and send it back. Send them the targets if you have them. There is NO WAY you should have to tinker with that revolver after paying the obscene money they charge for a 617.

OOOOOPS- I didn't read far enough down the thread to learn that the dealer sent it back. GOOD MOVE ! ! !

[Tom C]

Originally Posted by DaveBreck

Ok here's the new forcing cone. I just picked it up today and went to the range on the way home. I'm quite disappointed in the accuracy so far. Could be because there was so much lead in the barrel. See the photos of what I got out not counting what I dropped on the floor. At least now I have a proper FC.

Don’t be too upset. When a forcing cone is recut, there is bound to be a little residual roughness. That is easily taken care of with a centerfire revo, but a rimfire takes longer to smooth it out. Keep shooting and keep cleaning the lead out. It will smooth up and then pretty much stop leading.

[TSQUARED]

Originally Posted by DaveBreck

First of all hello to everyone here at S&W Forum. This is my first post as well as the reason for joining this forum so here goes. I'm looking for advice on what to do about my brand new M617. I purchased it new at my LGS 3 days ago and after cleaning the barrel with intention to head to the range I saw this in the forcing cone. Heavy buildup of lead at the rifling origin, and a machine line just in from the start of the FC. Also there is a significant burr around the outside of the FC not evident in the photos. It appears to me that the forcing cone is not fully machined to depth. So should I shoot it, send it back to Smith or am I just looking for trouble. Your opinins much needed and appreciated. Thanks, Dave

I don't know what ammo you were shooting but it appears that you leaded up the barrel. I had a similar expereince with Remington Thunderbolt which I resolved by allowing the barrel to cool down after firing ca 25 rounds. I have since switched to the plated ammo and do not expereince any leading issues.

[nsl]

I've had a 617-6 6" for a few years, and its been back twice. Once for accuracy, spitting, and POI issues, and the second time for canted barrel and POI issues.

Gun shoots good groups, but I still have to move the rear sight left to get it dead on. It also leaves and uneven carbon star on the crown after fireing, which I've pointed out to S&W both times. I see no crown uneveness. I think the rifleing is not the same depth on either side of my barrel.

Anyway, while I like shooting the gun, it may find its way into the "cull" area of the safe when I get ready to do some spring cleaning.

Oh, it could be worse. I've bought four new revolvers in the last few years, the 617, a Governor, a Ruger sp101, and a Ruger GP100 Wyley Clapp. Only the Governor has had no problems so far. The Rugers are back at the factory getting new cylinders right now. Well, the GP100 is scheduled to be back home today after its repair. We'll see.

[mag318]

What a shame and I can see why you'd be frustrated. I personally would keep sending it back until they got it right or replaced the revolver. This is a perfect example of why so many here seek out older S&W revolvers.