Adjusting trigger pull on 442

[jjudson]

I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I did a search and found nothing.

I gave my wife my 442 for CCW, and she's found the trigger pull too hard for her (she's tiny). Can someone tell me where to find info on adjusting the trigger pull on this model? Where could I go for parts? What spring options are there for lightening? I'd rather just swap springs is that's all it takes (instead of snipping coils off like I've seen in some suggestions).

Thanks ahead.

[monroe]

Wolff Springs

[snubbyfan]

I used wolff springs on my 442. I used an 11 pound rebound spring, an 8 pound main spring and smoothed the innards. I also changed the grip to a Pachmayr Compact trimmed for speedloaders. It both fits my hand better and has a lighter, smoother trigger. After several hundred rounds I have yet to have a misfire. In fact, it dents the primers deeper than my wife's factory stock 66-3.

[Imaposer]

Originally Posted by jjudson

I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I did a search and found nothing.

I gave my wife my 442 for CCW, and she's found the trigger pull too hard for her (she's tiny). Can someone tell me where to find info on adjusting the trigger pull on this model? Where could I go for parts? What spring options are there for lightening? I'd rather just swap springs is that's all it takes (instead of snipping coils off like I've seen in some suggestions).

Thanks ahead.

I've had the same problem. My ex was 5'2" and weighed 94# dripping wet and with her pockets full of rocks.

Resist the temptation to think that swapping in the lightest available springs will give you what you want. If it were that easy, the S&W engineers wouldn't be making guns with the factory springs in them. The factory springs are spec'd at their current strength for good reason. Of course those reasons are a complex set of compromises, so with a proper understanding of the mechanics of the gun, and a little work, things can be done to improve things a bit. But don't expect to get a DA trigger pull of less than 8# or so and still have 100% reliability at all times and under all circumstances. I've seen some boasts of really light triggers, and perhaps some people do get lucky. Or, maybe some people are just willing to accept a higher probability of a malfunction, IDK, but my comfort level and experience says that a reliable 8# - 8.5# trigger on a J frame is about as good as I can reasonably expect. You state this is for CCW and not a range toy, so keep that in mind when selecting your course of action and your criteria.

With that said...

While you can get by with just swapping springs, you will get a much better end result, and possibly better reliability with doing more than just that. If you are intent on doing the work yourself then I'd recommend that you purchase Jerry Miculek's excellent video on trigger jobs:
Gun Video Trigger Job: Complete Action Tuning Smith Wesson Revolvers

Then you will need a decent set of gunsmithing screwdrivers, a fine india stone and some gun oil. Getting the action slickened up will not only help lighten the trigger pull slightly by removing some friction, but it will also help your wife with trigger control, increasing her accuracy. It's much easier to keep the sights on target if the trigger pull is smooth and consistent throughout its entire stoke. Notchiness or a gritty trigger pull is difficult for even the experienced shooter to use well. Not only that, but when you start lightening springs you are affecting the ability of the springs to overcome internal friction. One of the biggies is trigger reset. If you reduce the rebound spring too much it can create a situation where the trigger reset is sluggish, or even fails to reset altogether. Either situation can result in a locked up gun that can't shoot a follow-up shot. By reducing sources of internal friction, such as on the rebound slide, and its hammer block bump, among others, you can get by with a slightly lighter spring without negatively affecting trigger reset. And then there is the mainspring. It powers the hammer and is responsible for doing the work that actually fires the gun. Go too light on it and you may find that the gun may function just fine mechanically during dry fire, but may not fire the cartridge 100% of the time. Again, on the range you may accept the possibility of the occasional misfire... for self defense you can't! I recently took one of my range guns out for a little fun. I probably shoot around 100 rounds through that gun that day and I did have one misfire. The ammo was all my own reloads, so it could have been just a high primer, but the trigger is light on that gun so I can't say that it is 100% reliable. It isn't used for SD though so I'm not worried about it unless it continues to be an issue or gets worse.

For all of the above reasons, I retain the factory mainspring in all of the CCW guns, and will not go lighter than 13# on the rebound spring. Others have had success with lighter springs but I had misfires on one of my j frames with a lighter 8# mainspring (stock is 8.5#) but it worked 100% with the original put back in. I've also experienced slightly sluggish reset with a 13# rebound spring in one j frame. I ended up with a 14# in that gun and it works fine. Perhaps a little more fine tuning could help, but I'm happy with it as is. Another works fine with the 13# rebound spring and still has a snappy trigger reset. But this experience told me that I may be pushing the hairy edge as far as reliability goes. If a clean as a whistle gun JUST BARELY functions at 100%, then what can I expect if it gets dirty or fouled in some way? For a range gun I don't worry so much, but if I'm carrying a gun CCW then I must be willing to bet my life that it will always work. Always! I like to have a little margin in my CCW weapons, and if it takes a little bit heavier trigger to get it then so be it. Smooth does feel lighter though.

My recommendation would be to study up a bit more before doing anything, or paying a professional, respected pistolsmith to do the work for you. Pretty significant improvements can be made on these little guns, but for CCW it must be done in an educated manner. IMHO, just throwing a set of light springs in it isn't really the best answer.

Snubbyfan has really light springs in his gun, but as he noted, he has done other internal work as well as a good bit of function testing to ensure reliability. His obviously works with his set-up, but don't count on his combination to work for you. I know it wouldn't in my 640. Every gun is different and you really have to test yours to make sure that any mods you make will still give you a 100% reliable gun.

One other thing to keep in mind. The trigger is just part of the equation. If your wife isn't used to firearms in general, or DA revolvers in particular, then her finger muscles aren't as strong as they can be with a bit of practice. Once you get the trigger work done, you should encourage her to consistently do some dry fire practice each day. This will help smooth the gun's action, but more importantly it will help her strengthen the required muscles, as well as teach her trigger control. In fact, dry fire practice is, IMO, more important (and a lot cheaper) than live fire practice at the range. Especially for a new shooter.

[JoeGun]

Originally Posted by jjudson

I'm sorry if this has been posted before. I did a search and found nothing.

I gave my wife my 442 for CCW, and she's found the trigger pull too hard for her (she's tiny). Can someone tell me where to find info on adjusting the trigger pull on this model? Where could I go for parts? What spring options are there for lightening? I'd rather just swap springs is that's all it takes (instead of snipping coils off like I've seen in some suggestions).

Thanks ahead.

Judson,

With your Wife being Strength challenged,, I would emagine that she'll be useing the 2 handed hold. I'm pretty much assuming since she is small that she will also have small fingers.

With the 2 handed hold,, Place the Primary Trigger Finger on Trigger,, then Secondary hand Wrap Finger over the Primary Trigger Finger for assist. 2 index finger trigger pull.

Try Dry Fireing with that method useing snap cap's,, and if that work's out,, then go shooting and see if it make's a difference. Or at least untilst you get the Trigger Pull like you want it,, and be 100%.

Joe

[arp32]

I installed an Apex trigger kit on my 642 and it seems to have reduced the trigger pull weight by 25% or so

[David Sinko]

She needs to alter her trigger finger by making it stronger. This can be accomplished by either live or dry fire. Extensive dry fire is obviously the much cheaper alternative and will actually produce immediate results, if she stays with it. The key is to not get discouraged.

I have numerous J Frames and never alter the springs on any of them.

Dave Sinko

[R*E]

I installed an 8 lb main spring and 14 lb rebound spring. I tried using a 13 lb rebound spring but the trigger wasn't resetting reliably.

I also installed a set of Pachmyer compac pro grips. They are really skinny so good for small hands or easier pocket carry.

eta: Changing out the springs has not compromised reliability, I've put over 200 rounds of WWB, Remington, HSM and some reloads through it without any problems.

[hotrod150]

Just to see what's involved in a trigger job on a 442, google up and watch the "yoda trigger job" video on youtube. Then if you feel up to it, you can acquire the necesary tools & springs and have at it.
I have to take exception to the recommendation to buy a "fine india stone". I bought a Norton brand 4" x 1/4" x 1/4" fine india stone from Midway (p/n 342574) to use for this sort of work because it was cheaper than their arkansas stones, but it turned out to be not so fine. It's great for taking off a little material, but for smoothing things out.... not so much. I ended up buying a Norton 3" x 1/4" x 1/4" hard arkansas stone (p/n 537218) & it is much more satisfactory for smoothing out the rebound slide surfaces etc on the frame. I don't even try to stone the trigger/hammer interface surfaces, it'd be pretty easy to bugger them up so I'll leave that to the pro's.
Inbetween the stoning I do feel competent to do and the 13# rebound springs I like (I keep the stock mainsprings), I ended up with pretty nice triggers after I worked over my model 36 & 60 Chiefs.

[Imaposer]

Hmmm... I was just giving a general recommendation. And, all I can say is that I use a 6"X1/2"X1/2" Norton FF-46 stone and it does what I need it to do. But I will also admit that it isn't the last step I use on the rebound surfaces. After the initial deburring and breaking of sharp edges (the primary goal in a basic trigger job), I do a fine polish on those surfaces. Perhaps the ultra fine Arkansas stones could work as well, or perhaps even better for some applications.

And while Nutnfancy's youtube video is a good primer as to what is involved, I still highly recommend spending the 20 bucks on the Jerry Miculek DVD before attempting it yourself. It goes into much more detail, and has a lot of close-up shots and explanations on pretty much every detail. Not only does he tell you what exactly to do, he also tells you what NOT to do, which IMO is just as important if not more so.

Even if you never intend to do a trigger job yourself, it's a good video for the S&W revolver enthusiast that's interested in the inner workings of the guns. It walks you through detail disassembly and well as assembly, so even if you never touch a stone, you could find it useful for ordinary servicing and repair. Can't recommend it enough!

[TheTinMan]

Jerry Kuhnhausen's book is a must have before you venture inside a S&W revolver IMHO, but I do better with books than videos.

I have an old 642 and a very recent M&P 340. Both have reduced power mainsprings and 14# rebound springs from Wolff. The 642 required a bit of polishing inside to get a smooth trigger pull. The M&P 340 required a LOT of work to smooth out.

If I had to choose between smooth or light, I'd take smooth every time.

+whatever on dry fire practice.

[ogilvyspecial]

Originally Posted by TheTinMan

Jerry Kuhnhausen's book is a must have before you venture inside a S&W revolver IMHO.

I'm a big fan of the Jerry Miculek DVD, but there are
times when Jerry K's book is the best resource.

The two are kinda like Reese' Peanut Butter Cups:
Two great tastes that taste great together.

[J911S]

I also put an Apex kit in my M&P 340 and it helped. Its very easy to install and they have youtube videos that walk you through it. Before you do it make sure you have the proper tools.

[DJ_2]

Originally Posted by J911S

I also put an Apex kit in my M&P 340 and it helped. Its very easy to install and they have youtube videos that walk you through it. Before you do it make sure you have the proper tools.

I love this kit!!!!!! I also looked at 4 or so vids on cleaning up the internals and I have to say I have the slickest trigger (smooth) and just right weight on my M&P 342 38+p


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheTinMan]

Originally Posted by DJ_2

I love this kit!!!!!! I also looked at 4 or so vids on cleaning up the internals and I have to say I have the slickest trigger (smooth) and just right weight on my M&P 342 38+p


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not knocking it, but That kit looks like it's probably a reduced power mainspring and rebound spring from Wolff and a Cylinder & Slide over-sized firing pin. Not sure what the purpose of the replacement firing pin spring is. Nice of Apex to put it all together though I'd rather have a 13-14-15 pound rebound spring pack from Wolff to tune any particular revolver. Yesterday I worked on a 625-3 and probably will up the rebound spring to 15 pounds on that one. Springs are a balancing act and each gun is a bit different.

[Imaposer]

Originally Posted by TheTinMan

I'm not knocking it, but That kit looks like it's probably a reduced power mainspring and rebound spring from Wolff and a Cylinder & Slide over-sized firing pin. Not sure what the purpose of the replacement firing pin spring is. Nice of Apex to put it all together though I'd rather have a 13-14-15 pound rebound spring pack from Wolff to tune any particular revolver. Yesterday I worked on a 625-3 and probably will up the rebound spring to 15 pounds on that one. Springs are a balancing act and each gun is a bit different.

Let my preface what I am about to say by saying that I have no direct experience with the aftermarket FPs and the following is only information that I've gathered from reading things from various sources.

From what I understand, the Apex kit contains a FP of their own design and manufacture, and is not the same as the C&S version. The Apex FP is 0.500" long and the original S&W pin is 0.495". But, I've read something of some "anti-drop" safety test required in CA and that S&W reduced the length of their pins to 0.485" in order to pass the test. It seems that sometimes this can cause ignition problems with reduced power springs. I've also heard of some people with the short pin ordering a new one from S&W and receiving the original spec 0.495 pin as a replacement, thus ending their misfire issues. I've never used either but from what I read the Apex FP is better and doesn't have quite the reputation for breakage that the C&S one does. How high of a probability this is, I can't say. Both do seem to have a higher incidence of breakage than the stock S&W item however, so I choose to leave the stock one in place. Especially on a SD gun.

There are reports of the Apex FP causing fatigue of the factory FP spring due to the stop on the FP allowing it to compress the spring more. On the factory set-up the FP's forward movement is stopped my the frame, whereas the Apex FP is stopped by the spring when it is completely compressed. I'm not sure of the difference but I assume the supplied spring has something to do with this. Or perhaps it's just a lighter spring to resist forward motion of the FP less when it is struck by the hammer. I really don't know. The Apex FP also should never be dry fired without snap caps whereas this is not required with the stock pins in place.

I've read many positive remarks of people reducing misfires with the Apex FP with reduced power springs. But, I've also read enough reports of breakage for me to decide to just keep my factory mainspring, factory FP and sacrifice a little in trigger pull weight in order to maintain the extra margin of reliability in my SD guns. For a range or comp. gun that would be a different story.