Why have a 64 if 65 exists ?

[Belgian686]

I have a 1993 model 64-5, police trade-in for about 60$, mechanically like new, and it’s a real fun gun to shoot. I use if for range shooting only, it performs as a new 800+$ gun, and I would not part of it (except maybe for 10 times what I paid, and even then).

Besides that, I wonder, why did they make a 64 in the nineties, when the 65 was identical except for the caliber ? For the 66/67, I understand, it’s different weight and looks, but in the 64/65 case, why would someone take a .38, if a .357 fires both cartridges and is probably much stronger? Any relation to some LE offices or so ?

B686

[Joe Kent]

Simply,many agencies did not allow the use of 357 magnum ammo. Also, the Model10/64 came first, and then was adapted to the 357 Model 13/65.

[scooter123]

At the time when the revolver was standard issue for the police, many cities forbade the use of the 357 Magnum. It's a caliber that isn't easy to learn how to shoot well with, requires more training, and over penetration concerns are well founded, especially if competance with this round is lacking and the officer misses. Offering a 38 only version of a particular platform meant the sales market was wider.

Finally, a 357 Magnum will have a different POI than a 38 spl. in the same gun. With fixed sights, this becomes a fixed issue that can only be addressed by training with both calibers. Offering a 38 only and a 357 Magnum of what are similar models meant that factory sighted models could be offered for each caliber.

Bottomline, it was done for sales reasons. Personally, I don't think the K frame is an ideal choice for the 357 Magnum, the recoil is quite harsh when compared to a model 27 or 28, so for some of us those old reasons for 38 only models still applies.

[ColbyBruce]

Because some people (like me) will buy one of each!

[stantheman86]

S&W still makes the 64-8, still a great gun!

The reasons above are spot on, also the reasons why Ruger made Service Sixes and GP-100's chambered in .38 Special, they took a beefy .357 and basically short-chambered the .357 cylinder to accept only .38's. I have a Boston PD marked Speed Six chambered in .38 Special.

Also, the laws in some states only allow private armed security guards to use .38 Special revolvers, and S&W sold a LOT of 64's to companies like Brinks, Loomis, etc.

The "CYA" people at many PD's back in the day, as well as the anti-lawsuit higher up's thought that it would not be "PC" to have cops carrying "Magnums".

[Charles]

Another thing is that the cylinder is a bit shorter in a .38, which means the ejector rod has just a bit more travel. A .38 K frame will get .38 brass ALL the way out of the cylinder. A .357 K frame won't quite do it, at least in the guns I own. So if you're going to carry .38's anyway, it makes sense to carry them in a .38, at least to me.

[captainjohnsofd]

The frame, cylinder, and barrel of the .357 is heat-treated to a higher degree to withstand higher pressures. This process costs extra. Some PD's cannot carry a revolver with the .357 Magnum inscription on the barrel. That is even if they only carry .38 Special duty ammo. Politics run amok.

[Badkarma 1]

For me the reason the 64 is still with us and the 65 ain't is because of the .357 Magnum.
See back when service revolvers ruled the Smith K-frame was THE revolver that most cops carried. With the exception of cities where the chiefs or sheriffs suffered from "Magnum-phobia" "it will go thru the badguy, the car behind him, and into the nearest baby stroller" and so on. Also during the early days most cops practiced with .38s in their magnums, but carried magnums, and civil suits followed!
So they started shooting full-house magnums (usually the 125gr jackted hollow point!!) and the K-frame was found wanting. The expanding gases would erode the throat of the barrel and flame cut the top strap. And on worse cases the gun would lock up! Thus the coming of the L-frame in the 80s.
Thats why the 64 survives and the 65 is retired, damn shame too! I intend to find a 3 inch 65 one day, to replace my P7, I've got the revolver bug BAD. Dale

[Belgian686]

Thanks to all for these interesting insights - This now makes sense to me, and I continue to enjoy my 64 a LOT (smiley).

[David Sinko]

I have a Model 64 with a 2" barrel. I do not believe there is such a thing as a Model 65 with a 2" barrel. So the Model 65 is not quite viable as a pocket gun.

Dave Sinko

[HERMAN.40]

You are all wrong. It fills the void between the model 63 and the 65. It's simple. model 63,64,65,66,67. It all makes sense now

[chief38]

The M 65 is one of the "best well kept" S&W secrets.......... sushhhh you'll start a run on them.

One of the best Smith ever made is a 3" M65.

Chief38

[wrangler5]

Originally Posted by Charles

Another thing is that the cylinder is a bit shorter in a .38, which means the ejector rod has just a bit more travel. A .38 K frame will get .38 brass ALL the way out of the cylinder. A .357 K frame won't quite do it, at least in the guns I own. So if you're going to carry .38's anyway, it makes sense to carry them in a .38, at least to me.

FWIW, on my 65-3, a 38 Special case just clears the rear face of the cylinder at full ejector rod travel. On my Model 10 the clearance is visibly about twice as much (but still measured in thousandths). But both of MY K frames do pull a 38 case all the way out. Perhaps not all 65s have the same tolerances, though.

[captainjohnsofd]

New Jersey has a regulation for armed security to carry .38 Special only, including the weapon....ridiculous but still a law!