I have been running around three different shooting ranges, renting various handguns to find a couple to add to my collection (Glock 19, SA 1911 RO, S&W 632 (wife's)). Had it narrowed down to trying Sig 226 E squared, Beretta Px4, Beretta 92FS. So, of course, I run into a guy at one range who lets me shoot his S&W 686 Plus revolver. Loved it. Would be a great nightstand/range gun. Too heavy to carry around. Today I rented one and tried the .357 rounds as well as the .38 special rounds. With .357 my hits were spread out over 6.5 inches. With the .38 specials it was only 3 inches. So now I have found a nice revolver that shoots both, but is more accurate with the .38s, as well as making popping sounds compared to dynamite blasts (.357). Okay, perhaps I exaggerate just a little.

So should I focus on buying a 686 plus, or go for a S&W like the 64 which is made specifically only for the .38 special?

Are you wearing adequate hearing protection? I can shoot my 44 mag without it hurting my ears using proper hearing protection.

If you will not shoot .357s, then go ahead and buy a .38 Special. But, since the gun you fired likely is just as accurate with .357s (the difference is probably your fault, if you were using good ammunition), you may have a mistaken impression. In my experience, 686s might even be a bit more accurate with really good .357s.

Anyway, a good 686, firing good commercial .357s, should shoot way better than 99% of us can hold it - like 1.5" or so at 25 yards. Don't let the results you mention be your guide.

Its not the gun thats more accurate with the .38s my guess it is you.With the .357 you are anticipating the recoil and blast and are jerking the trigger.Also if it is a 4 " gun many have and are still being carried with no problems.If you are shooting Magnums at an indoor range plugs and muffs are in order.If you have problems maybe outside also.

Get a good set of over the ear "muff" type hearing protectors. They can make all of the difference in your range experience. I have a 686-4 2 1/2 inch and it is a great gun. Beautiful balance and you have the choice from hot magnum to light 38's. I would go with the 686. Good luck.

I don't know about the 686+, but my M-19s are more accurate with .357 than .38. They group about the same, but the .38s tend to group high. More practice with .357s and you should be able to get your group size under control.

As suggested, look into better hearing protection. .357 is louder than .38s, but with good hearing protection, you shouldn't experience discomfort. Try earplugs under muffs - I do that not so much because of the sound of the .357s I'm shooting, but because you can never tell when someone might show up on the lane next to you with a .500. Not so much fun on on indoor range.

Ditto on the hearing protection, especially on an indoor range. I sometimes wear both foam plugs, plus ear muffs indoors.


I'd go with the .357, at least then you have an option. Thirty eight for plinking / practice, and magnum loads for defense.

And as for the noise, in a real life & death situation, you'll be so pumped up with adrenaline, you won't even hear the gun go off.

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Retired Police, Life NRA

I have, and use, good quality ear muffs. I know my main problem is flinching in anticipation. Just seemed like I was using extra loud ammo today.

My wife practices with .38 Specials in her 66-3. She'll run a couple of cylinders of .357 Magnum through it just to retain the feel for it, or to show off a little bit. She carries it with Magnums.

Double up on the ear protection - indoors and out. Plugs and/or over the ear "muffs" are not enough on their own - use both at the same time.

You may have been using some extra loud ammunition. I don't know what brand you were using but in my experience Remington is the loudest, nastiest .357 factory ammo I've ever tried. Winchester, Speer and Federal were not as bad in terms of flash, noise and concussion. I have found this to be the case regardless of bullet weight. Not all .357 ammo is equal. JMHO and YMMV.

Yeah +1 on buying quality hearing protection. I would look into buying the electronic muffs that actually enhance your hearing while blocking out the high frequency pistol/rifle report at the range. Good eye and ear protection are an investment in YOUR future.

I shoot alot of .357 out of a model 27 with a 6" barrel and find .357 to be more accurate than .38spl - it does take a little time and patience to become comfortable shooting .357 mag, but not too long.

I have alot of k frames in my battery and while I shoot some .357 out of them just to "keep current", I much prefer shooting .38 and .38 +p out of them.

Grab a 686 in barrel length of your choice. They are truly a gun I think you will never part with once you have one.

Keep your aim straight and your powder dry,

Bflobill69

S&W model 686 range gun.....yes. nightstand gun....NO!!! if the report and muzzle flash from the 686 is dramatic at the range............image what it would be like to fire it indoors with low/no light and no hearing protection at home? over penetration is another concern.

the S&W model 64 is a better choice, less expensive and readily available in good used condition

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There's nowt so queer as folk

The .357 magnum rounds is loud and the recoil can be stout through a small frame revolver. I settled on a Model 686 Plus 4" as it is more of a range gun. For home defense I settled on a Model 638.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

as others mentioned...adequate hearing protection...i shoot the 500 magnum which is an atomic bomb compared to the 357 mag. the 460 mag.is no slouch either!!

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

^^^ Worked for me on an Aircraft Carrier during Flight Op's, and works at the range as well...^^^

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RIP Shipmate

I'll chime in with all the others who gave very good advice, wear plugs and muffs. Not only will it save your ears, it will probably reduce flinching from anticipating the blast of your gun and/or those of your neighbors.

Additionally, the quieter report has the side benefit of reducing "perceived" recoil. With a high NRR muff and high NRR plugs, I hardly notice any .500 Mag round, no matter how hot it is loaded. It simply isn't bothersome and lets me enjoy shooting the beast. Don

I guess I would also suggest that you wear ear plugs plus muffs. I always do I believe pretty stongly that the loud shout is as significant as the true recoil. Also it helps with others shooting around you
I feel VERY Blessed the days that I am alone at the range.

If you really want an anoing gun for sound shoot a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 carbine. A light load with an ugly crack

Hank

I learned a long while ago that full power .357 magnums (and 30 Carbine from a Ruger Blackhawk!) require double ear protection. The rifle-like high pressure crack of the .357 will make you flinch, and flinch badly. On an indoor range, or under roof outdoors the effects are compounded. Good foam plugs and muffs with at least a 25db NRR rating are a must.

Double ear protection now is a lot cheaper and better solution than hearing aids later. Trust me on this!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds of .357 & .44 mags, they never hurt my ears with proper hearing protection, but I've also never shot indoors, which is much worse.

The target shooters at the clubs I belonged to used to piss & moan about how loud my guns were (I usually suggested they take up fishing). I know the magnums generate more decibels, but the report of a.45 auto always seemed much sharper and harder on my ears (maybe cuz I already disliked the bullseye shooters for their comments.)

Unless you're looking for a carry gun, a 4" 686+ is about as versatile a handgun as you'll ever come across.

I also use foam plugs under ear muffs when I shoot, as others have indicated - DOUBLE UP! Besides, magnums are always terribly loud in a closed lane - but you won't notice them outside.

Of the guns you listed, I would go with the 686. You have a nice 1911, and a 9mm Glock. I would imagine both the berettas and the Sig you looked at were also 9mm..? I think the 686 is more versatile than the others. I like the Sigs dont get me wrong, but IMHO they are overpriced. I prefer my M&P 40 over almost every Sig I have ever shot. As others have mentioned you will be able to group 357s better the more you shoot. Lots of dry fire practice watching your front sight and you will be able to shoot quality 357s better than 38s

OP...Methinks you prolly ought to understand the revolvers you're considering buying better. Learning how to shoot them wouldn't hurt, either.

Can't read a word of this...yellow don't get 'er done...

edit: Now I can with the grey background! Right about hearing the gun...never hear the '06 go off (nor feel the recoil) when deer hunting!

Good ear muffs and or plugs, start with the .38 specials and then .38+P, and work your way into the .357 magnums.

I have a 686 plus with the 2.5" barrel and I love it. I don't think anyone has mentioned about mid power 357 instead of full power. I reload 357 and I make some sweet shooting mid power rounds for practice. You can find some mid power ammo to shoot for range practice such as the winchester white box 110gr 357 at walmart.

Protect your ears at all costs, unless you'd like to have nerve damage that can't be fixed (I have first hand experience). As has been said the .357 Mag. does not lend itself to being a nightstand gun due to it's over penetration. But with more range time your groupings should match those of the .38 Spl. in a short time. The S&W 586/686 series of revolvers are my favorite magnums by far.

Try this. Next time you shoot the 686, shoot one cylinder of .357's. Then reload, but leave two spent casings in. Spin the cylinder and close it so you don't know where the spent casings are. When you fire and strike spent brass, you will know if you are flinching. I suspect you are. There should not be much, if any, difference in accuracy between .38's and .357's.

I went with the 686+ because 1) I like the extra round and 2) I like having the option of shooting .357's when I take it to the range. The 686+ loaded with .38 specials is my nightstand gun.

I agree about dry firing to help with trigger control and to help overcome a flinch. Pef's advice above, about leaving one chamber unloaded during practice is an excellent way to discover a flinch. Combining the two techniques will, over time, help you keep the gun on target through the entire trigger stroke.

Welcome to the foum. Hearing loss never comes back.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

What did you say??? I do have some hearing loss. Thank god i'm 62yo it could be old age now.

On the other hand i did notice in shooting handguns for many years from when i was a youngster the 357mag does have some crack to it with the stout loads. Recently my new 41mag also has some crack to it too. I'm not sure where the 44mag falls in because of my stout 44mag loads.

The worst thing i have ever heard was the guy shooting the 50BMG next to me at the range.

I am never without my hearing protection unless i'm hunting.

Ditto; But i like to mix up the loads so i'm not sure which one is the magnum load. We do become better shooters doing this if we shoot more often too.

686 not a night stand gun? Crazy talk. I have a 686p on the wife's night stand loaded with 38sp +P SWCs. I keep .357 SD rounds in my R8 in the home office.

I think it's the best under-the-pillow gun you can get.

My wife's 586 4" is loaded with 38spl p+ and in a thumbreak holster right under the center pillows (it can't be cocked in that holster anyway, and the double action pull is too strong to cock in your sleep). The muzzle end of the holster has a 3" tie down to the headboard - it can be drawn by either of us at any angle, single handed. We leave the speedloaders on the nightstand - one with 38spl p+ and the other with 158gr JHP 357. All the other guns are locked away at night... if something bad happens the 586 can cover us while we bust out the long guns.

I love my DW Valors, but there's no way on earth I'd sleep with them; I have no concerns snuggling up with the revolver under the pillows, and I find it comforting to be armed and to know I can fall asleep and not worry about an intruder getting to my gun before me.

IMHO L or N frame revolver = best night time defense handgun.

I have 3 of the 686s 4", 3", 2 1/2" barrels, I carry either the 3 or 2 1/2 ". I wear a good set of ear muffs and a good set of in the ear plugs with a over pressure valve that closes off the sound, they are very similar to what are issued to the military on the front line. I wear the set up when shooting 357. My carry load is either 357 or a +P round. I train with my reloads in +P and will load up 50 rounds of 357 to shoot while training. I really like my 686's. good balance, good trigger, accurate. I don't think you will be disappointed with a 686. my personal favorite is my 3" I think I shot is better then the others. There are 6 shot and 7 shot 686's I think the 7 shoot are referred to as the plus.

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Carpriver.

Many, many years of unmuffled gunfire and aircraft engines. No one had a grip on how not good this was back in the day. Tinnitus for life, but luckily still have reasonably decent hearing.

Too heavy to carry around?

Last time I went to an indoor range, .500 Mags didn't exist. The worst I ever encountered was someone banging away with a 50DE a couple lanes away from me. VERY noticeable. Don

The 686 is known to be very accurate. Sounds to me like you are anticipating the shot. Some people call this "flinching." This can be readily demonstrated by having someone else load 5 rounds and 1 empty, leaving it a surprise for you as to when the empty will come up. When the empty is "fired" you will see your sights jump as your wrist and hand violently brace for the recoil. This should bring home exactly what you are doing wrong.

As to your hearing, I suggest that if the standard ear muffs are not enough, then use either custom or non-custom plugs PLUS muffs.

I’ll add a couple of points her too, Right or Wrong. Y’all can correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve’ been away from all this stuff, other than owning, for 26+ years. I’ve just gotten reinterested for various reasons.

I date back to the old revolver days in my beginnings and in law enforcement too. The hearing protection as some have mentioned is a must if you want to keep your hearing. Any of you that ever accidentally forgot to put your plugs in or muffs on and fired a large caliber handgun will know what I’m talking about. It will shock the hell out of you.

Now, to the downside of muffs and plugs and of course they are needed, but in the event that you were put into a situation that you had to use your weapon for self protection that first shot is going to addle you so much that you will have to recover, for the second shot unless you are deaf. At least you’ll be on the backside of it and hopefully if your adversary is armed he won’t get off a shot, but that’s another point I’ll make too. Anyway, they taught us that from a law enforcement stand point, way back when, that most shootings take place within 7 yards. Therefore, the old PPC we use to shoot, I don’t know what they use today, concentrated heavily on the 7 yard line and second only to the 25 yard line, as I recall. So, more than likely you are going to be up close and personal. That’s where instinctive shooting will come in. I would practice that heavily. Those of you, and my guess would be, pretty much all of you are preparing for self defense.

Now, to a real life story, not mine but a former fellow law enforcement officer’s. I heard it from him and his partner. They were both state narcotics officers in the 70’s. They were to make a buy from a drug dealer. They met at a bus station with the suspect. They had a briefcase with $35,000 in cash, which belonged to the state, to make the deal look real.

When they arrived the suspect told them that they were going to hand over the cash and go on their way. One of the guys said something to the effect of, I don’t thinks so. He told us, (this was at the academy in a class) his first thought was, what is my boss going to do if I had over 35 K to this dude? He then told him that wasn’t going to happen. It was winter and cold and the guy produced from under his jacket a butcher knife and he was going to stab the guy in the gut with it. His instinctive reaction was to grab the knife blade and he did, thus preventing an abdominal stab wound.

His second instinctive reaction was to pull his snub nose 38. and proceed to fire. My coworker, who was his partner, I later found out, pulled his 45 ACP and began firing also. They both unloaded and went for their backup guns. At that point the guy turned and walked 25 feet, turned and pulled a pistol from behind his back in an attempt to shoot them. Of course they were steady firing at him and he eventually collapsed.

When it was all said and done they had hit the dude 12 times in the chest. Don’t ask me with which calibers and how many. The point is don’t expect an assailant to fall down and die on the spot. This guy was hopped up on speed we were told. The predecessor to Meth. We had already been taught that these particular drugs could cause super human strength and this is a classic example and I heard it straight from both horse’s mouths. It was later confirmed by a friend of mine who was a cop in the town where the incident went down. I just remember my coworker talking with my cop friend, reminiscing about the event and my cop friend was working for the PD in the town at the time the incident happened. My coworker said, “we thought the guy was never going to die”.

Now another point. The “bath salts” today from my readings will do the same thing.

Sorry, I just wanted to make that point while mentioning the shock from mufflless and plugless fire.

Now to the 38 Sp. and .357 thing. As someone mentioned just get a good. 38 SP with +P rounds, if you are more comfortable with the 38 Special for protection. Don’t shoot them out of a .357. Sure you can hit pretty accurately and in the case above sighting may not come into play, but if you are into target shooting then it may.

Now I’m going on readings years ago and recall, but the forcing cone of a .357 is the same distance from the 38 SP bullet in the chamber of a .357, as the difference in length between the 38 Sp and a .357 cartridge or pretty close to that. Did I make that clear? Anyway, that will have a play in the accuracy difference as far as target shooting.

I used to use 38 Specials in my .357 too for practice on general area hitting for self defense, not match shooting. I said general shooting because in real life incidents again, like the one above, you probably aren’t going to have time to use the sights as in target shooting. And even though I am fortunate enough to not have had a real life experience, it isn’t going to be so easy, especially if at night. There again the instinctive shooting comes into play.

Sorry I went so long guys. Sometimes one thought leads to another and I wind up rambling on, but I thought I would make these points.

Some law enforcement firearms training programs now require doubling up on hearing protection. Both ear plugs and ear muffs are required unless you use an electronic style ear muff set. You may wish to try this the next time you go to the range. Usually magnum revolvers are more accurate with the magnum rounds than with the Special rounds. Truth be told most revolvers no matter the caliber are more accurate than people can hold.

If you wear glasses, the side piece that goes over your ears will break the seal on the muffs, allowing high frequency noise in.

Double up!

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Fuego

Sure it does! Got mine back day before yesterday....Cochlear Implant operation! I'd recommend good hearing protection to start with though!...these things are 100 grand each with follow up visits...sound mapping and rehab!...I got another coming in June! Just a couple holes drilled in your skull after they almost cut your ear off!.....Just Sayin!

By the Way...I'm an OLD ARTILLERY SERGEANT!

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I hate indoor ranges but went to one out of convenience a few months ago. I was using a set of electronic muffs for the first time and I didn't know what I was doing. Before I had a chance to say jack squat the guy in the lane next to me made my ears nearly bleed. I added plugs but the damage was done and my already bad tinnitus was made worse. The body adapts but there's no such thing as quiet time.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

I will add another vote for hearing protection. If you were wearing something at the range, then double up. The nice thing about sticking with a .357 is that you don't have to shoot .357 through it, but can always upgrade later, or maybe think about those lower power .357 loads. I don't want to detract from the 64 as it's a great revolver, but limits you to .38. Just too bad they don't make a 64 in 9x19, then you'd have the best of both worlds (which is why I have two 547s). Anyway, as others have mentioned, flinch is probably the issue with accuracy. Try loading some empty chambers when you fire .357 and you will see what's going on. I've done it and was amazed at how badly I was flinching, jerking the trigger, over compensating, etc. After shooting some like that, I was able to bring myself back to clean breaks and follow through, thus illustrating how imperative it is that one must train, no matter what the weapon is. As far as worrying about all of that if you have to shoot defensively, with no hearing protection, it works itself out. Ask any hunter or LEO or soldier. You will not even think about all that in a real firing situation. I can barely remember any sound at all when hunting or when I was in combat zones, although in later years in the military, it has become mandatory to wear earplugs in combat zones (not wearing them when I was in Iraq was actually a punishable offense). As others have mentioned your hearing will not improve over time. I'm a retired Infantry master gunner, and I spent a lot of time on ranges, and in my early years was careless, and units did not enforce hearing protection enough; if I had it to do over again, I would have been more careful. Interestingly, the Army does not pay disability for hearing loss, but they do for tinnitus.

This is why my favorite chamberings are the 45 Colt & 44 Special.

I also like the 45ACP & 38 Special.

Yes, its extremely important to have proper hearing protection. But in the case of a rapidly occuring emergency where a gun may have to be used for defense, it may not be possible to put on your ear muffs. For those who may say 'in such a situation your hearing would be your last concern' - - - they may consider that being permanently deaf isn't very helpful in a self defense situation.
I say this as one who has experienced a little bit of high frequency hearing loss from gun fire.

I own a 686+ and its a fine gun. I only shoot 357s when in the field, when I have earplugs in and earmuffs on. If I were using it as a home defense gun I'd use 38 Specials. - - - I also have K frame 38 Special guns. You might want to look at these. Older used guns in great shape can be found much cheaper than the new guns. Many of us prefer the workmanship and No Lock old guns to the new.

i think the 357 hurts my ears worse than any handgun i have ever shot, that sharp high crack i down load useing cast lead with 6.0 gr of unique for most of my shooting i do love the 357 magnum but i would hate to even shoot a snake with out my ear plugs with hot loads

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WILL WORK FOR AMMO!

Nothing that hasn't already been said by numerous others, but add my vote to purchase of the 357, and then shoot whatever floats your boat. I'm partial to my own handloads of cast bullets. And like the others, I always double up on the hearing protection with good muffs over plugs. You only get to lose your hearing once!