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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 12-04-2012, 06:46 AM
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When did S&W start to include fired shell cases with 686 revolvers (date or serial number or revision number)? I assume this was done in response to the shell casing laws passed in Maryland and New York. The effective date of the Maryland law was Oct. 2000. I remember that it was hard to get certain guns in Maryland for a short while after that date because a lot of guns didn't include the shell case and couldn't be sold.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:10 AM
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Never question the source of free brass. Free brass is good.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:21 AM
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When did S&W start to include fired shell cases with 686 revolvers (date or serial number or revision number)? I assume this was done in response to the shell casing laws passed in Maryland and New York. The effective date of the Maryland law was Oct. 2000.
You're correct about the reason for it. The SCSW says it started in the late 1990's. The owner will never see it if the gun was sold in one of those States. It's kind of nice to have, because the envelope has a date that coincides with when the gun was produced.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:39 AM
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Requiring manufacturers to ship a piece of brass is one of the more retarded efforts at linking guns to crimes. MD has spent millions on this program and I believe they haven't solved any crimes as a result of this ballistic fingerprinting.

Canada has spent hundreds of millions, perhaps more on their version and again no crimes solved. Wasting taxpayer's money on BS schemes never seems to deter the anti gun morons. Sigh. Couldn't help myself, rant off. Don
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by s&wchad View Post
The owner will never see it if the gun was sold in one of those States. It's kind of nice to have, because the envelope has a date that coincides with when the gun was produced.
Here's another example of silly gun laws that aren't even enforced. Two years ago, I bought a lightly used 6" 686-5 PowerPort for a computer-illiterate friend from a Maryland resident on GunBroker and it came to my gunsmith's with the fired casing in its envelope. The gun had been sold new to that Maryland resident by an FFL holder in that state without the casing being retained and was subsequently shipped by a different Maryland FFL holder without the casing being retained. Here's a photo of the gun as it came to me with that envelope.



I'm a little foggy on the firearm identification value of a fired case anyway. The firing pin indentation in the primer is the only thing I can imagine that could help a lab determine if a specific gun was used in a crime and as easily as firing pins can be changed, how much help is that? And since revolvers don't eject their fired casings, I see even less reason for that law.

But I'm just a dumb right-wing wacko from the Arkansas portion of Pennsylvania.

Ed

Oops - sorry if that last sentence violates any board rule on political statements.

Last edited by AveragEd; 12-04-2012 at 10:28 AM. Reason: P.C.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:32 AM
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Even Governor Cuomo has realized the ineffectiveness of COBIS and has terminated the program here in NY.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:56 AM
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Never underestimate the retardiness level of a liberal. In their world there are no guns. Need proof - Bob Costas' rant on national TV during a NFL game.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:35 AM
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Here's another example of silly gun laws that aren't even enforced. Two years ago, I bought a lightly used 6" 686-5 PowerPort for a computer-illiterate friend from a Maryland resident on GunBroker and it came to my gunsmith's with the fired casing in its envelope. The gun had been sold new to that Maryland resident by an FFL holder in that state without the casing being retained and was subsequently shipped by a different Maryland FFL holder without the casing being retained. Here's a photo of the gun as it came to me with that envelope..
Sir, I believe you only got the one included with the sale, every gun sold in Maryland has one in the box. There are TWO included in the original box when it arrives at the FFL. One goes with the gun, the other is retained and forwarded to the Maryland State Police for their stupid matching system.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:52 AM
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Being from Pennsylvania, where the Second Amendment is largely in its unmolested form (for now, anyway), I didn't know that. Thanks for the clarification!

But what is the point of providing one for the gun's owner?

Ed
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:04 PM
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Maybe they keep the fired bullet for the rifling marks?
If they do, it's the best kept secret in the USA.

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There are TWO included in the original box when it arrives at the FFL.
Dick,
I don't know where you heard that, but I'm pretty sure only one ships with each gun.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:44 PM
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Dick,
I don't know where you heard that, but I'm pretty sure only one ships with each gun.
I lived in Maryland before retirement, then moved to Florida. I recently won here in FL a 686, with NRA gold logo, at an NRA dinner and the still sealed envelope had two spent cartridges in it. When NRA buys these guns they have no idea what state they will go to, so they have the brass included. If you notice AverageEd's picture the envelope only has one in it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:19 PM
Stephanie B Stephanie B is offline
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Even Governor Cuomo has realized the ineffectiveness of COBIS and has terminated the program here in NY.
Something like $44 million was spent in over ten years and no crimes were solved.

Anyway, IIRC, CoBis only applied to new sales. The LGS I used there would send a clerk down into the basement to touch off a round into a barrel of dirt if no case was provided by the manufacturer.

Pretty ironic, though: CoBis was the brainchild of a Republican governor and was killed off by a Democratic governor.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:01 PM
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If they do, it's the best kept secret in the USA.


Dick,
I don't know where you heard that, but I'm pretty sure only one ships with each gun.
I think your right when you buy a new handgun in Maryland you don't get to keep an envelop with a fired case it goes to the state police HQ. I have heard people say that are supposedly in the know that when the MSP gets the envelop it is thrown into a file cabinet with thousands of other fired cases; no system that even catalogs the cases. What a joke. Actually it was designed as another impediment to gun ownership.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:26 PM
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Boy ain't that the truth and any problem will get solved if they throw enough money at it. Fortunately I live in "realville" where I feel I am responsible for my actions and destiny and the world owes me nothing.

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Never underestimate the retardiness level of a liberal. In their world there are no guns. Need proof - Bob Costas' rant on national TV during a NFL game.

Last edited by TheMystro; 12-04-2012 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:22 PM
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Even Governor Cuomo has realized the ineffectiveness of COBIS and has terminated the program here in NY.
Len
Don't worry, he'll probably find something else worthless to dump on you. Don
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:29 PM
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I think your right when you buy a new handgun in Maryland you don't get to keep an envelop with a fired case it goes to the state police HQ. I have heard people say that are supposedly in the know that when the MSP gets the envelop it is thrown into a file cabinet with thousands of other fired cases; no system that even catalogs the cases. What a joke. Actually it was designed as another impediment to gun ownership.
Your probable right. Here's why.

ATF Press Release -

A lot of people try to sell the "fired case when sold" thing by claiming it will allow tracking of the gun. That's just not the case. Only CRIME EVIDENCE is allowed into the system.

And yeah, I've used NIBIN a lot in the past, put some really bad people behind bars with it.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:35 AM
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If you commit a crime with a revolver, you are required by law to dump the empties at the scene before fleeing.

My Smiths have an insert to retain the captive firing pin which is either stamped or polished. There's not a machining mark to be seen on primers, even under 25x magnification. Semis are different, assuming you can find the gun, and prove who was holding at the time of the deed.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:25 AM
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I don't know about the laws in WI concerning this, but both my Ruger LCR and recently purchased 642 had the spent shell casings included.

From a collectors standpoint, I think it's neat because the envelope the casing come in contains pertinent information on when are where it was made. Also, if they ever decide to stop including them, I'd imagine examples with the shell casings will be worth more then those without someday.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:40 AM
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When I bought my 44 magnum Redhawk here in Louisiana it came with a 44 special case in the box. So I'm inclined to think its the firing pin impression on the primer that they use to match up crime scene cases. Frank
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Old 12-06-2012, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neumann View Post
If you commit a crime with a revolver, you are required by law to dump the empties at the scene before fleeing.

My Smiths have an insert to retain the captive firing pin which is either stamped or polished. There's not a machining mark to be seen on primers, even under 25x magnification. Semis are different, assuming you can find the gun, and prove who was holding at the time of the deed.
Trust me, the NIBIN electron scanner is MUCH higher magnification then 25X
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:04 PM
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Ok, I'm trying to be serious, but I'm having trouble not laughing...smirk...here goes;

Do any of you think that the the fired brass will be one those things like the box, papers and tools that, if you have it, makes the collectible S&W's worth more?
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Old 12-06-2012, 08:48 PM
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Semis are different, assuming you can find the gun, and prove who was holding at the time of the deed.
If I'm not mistaken, NIST (National Institute of Science and Technology) did a major study of all the high tech crime forensic approaches about two years ago. Almost all of them fared very poorly including so called "tooling marks" on firearms brass. Said rifling comparisons were prone to error, primer mark analysis was even worse. The only technology they didn't criticize was DNA.

Semis like Glocks and I suspect other striker fired semi autos, are starting to eject the fired brass while the firing pin is still in contact with the primer causing a "smearing" effect. Stuff like microstamping the firing pin is an incredibly stupid approach. 15 seconds with some fine sandpaper and the stamping is GONE. Brain dead politicians don't bother to ask scientists and engineers what will work, they just legislate and hell with it. FOOLS. Don
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