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12-25-2012, 06:12 PM
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Model 15-4 Combat Masterpiece
Acquired from a friend last week this 15-4, but I suppose is a Transition revolver because it does not have a pinned barrel. But it is stamped 15-4. And the grips which he said are original are ink stamp 1985.
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12-25-2012, 06:24 PM
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Wow, very nice in nickel. Looks perfect.
Chop
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12-26-2012, 02:43 PM
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That's because although the pinned barrel went away at the same time, the '-5 change' only eliminated the recessed cylinders.
At least through the end of the ten digit product codes in 1984; 15s, 17s, 18s, etc. continued with the -4 while the Magnums moved on to the next dash.
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12-26-2012, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdailey
Acquired from a friend last week this 15-4
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Very sweet! I've not been much of a nickel fan - at least until I bought a beautiful Model 19-3 4" with nickel plate a couple years ago. Now I would very much like to add a nickel plated Model 15 to the mix. Yours is lovely.
JP
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12-26-2012, 03:59 PM
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As I understand it, the non-Magnum and non-rimfire revolvers (including the Model 15) were never built with recessed cylinders. As such, when the pinned barrel (and recessed cylinders for Magnum revolvers) was deleted in 1982, the frame lug didn't change (the frame lug is what holds the cylinder on the gun when the cylinder is swung out; it has a different shape for recessed vs. non-recessed cylinders) - which means the dash-number didn't need to change either. All that changed was the elimination of the barrel pin and its corresponding hole and cut-out in the barrel threads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snw19_357
That's because although the pinned barrel went away at the same time, the '-5 change' only eliminated the recessed cylinders.
At least through the end of the ten digit product codes in 1984; 15s, 17s, 18s, etc. continued with the -4 while the Magnums moved on to the next dash.
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Ah, that's a good way to think of it (-5 eliminates recessed cylinders only).
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdailey
Acquired from a friend last week this 15-4, but I suppose is a Transition revolver because it does not have a pinned barrel. But it is stamped 15-4. And the grips which he said are original are ink stamp 1985.
[IMG]http://i1241.photobucket.com/albums/gg511/kdailey57/IMG_0001_7.jpg[/IMG]
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The nickel plating on that gun is beautiful; I have a 15-4 (also non-pinned barrel) that's had an aftermarket electroless-nickel plating finish applied to it, but I don't have any factory-nickel-plated guns. Yet.
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12-26-2012, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snw19_357
That's because although the pinned barrel went away at the same time, the '-5 change' only eliminated the recessed cylinders.
At least through the end of the ten digit product codes in 1984; 15s, 17s, 18s, etc. continued with the -4 while the Magnums moved on to the next dash.
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I've got a -4 that doesn't have recessed cylinders.
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12-26-2012, 04:01 PM
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Congratulations as I love a clean nickel revolver and the model 15 is a great revolver. Your pistol was made in 1985 and the pinned barrel was discontinued in 1982 so some -4s have the pinned barrel. None of them had recessed cylinders because only magnums and 22LR have recessed cylinders.
My pinned Model 15-4
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12-26-2012, 04:16 PM
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Looks like it might be a mis-marked -5. It's been known to happen.
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12-26-2012, 04:28 PM
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It's a late 15-4, they made them until about 85-86 or so. The late ones also have the S&W logo on the left side under the cylinder release.
Some of the late 19-4's and 66-1's have the logo on the left side but retain their pinned barrels and recessed cylinders, some may lack one or more of those things.
Model 10-7, 10-8, 15-4 and 67-1 production continued post the '82 mandate to remove the pinned barrels without a change in "dash".
It's a good chance that if the logo is on the left side of the frame, it's not going to have a pinned barrel. The opposite is also true, if the logo is on the sideplate, chances are it's pinned. At least on K frames. N frames and J frames are a different story. On the J's the left side logo was most common througout production, and the N frames, they made the logo change much later than the K frames, later 80's.
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12-26-2012, 06:26 PM
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That's some great detailed information, Nipster, but I thought all 66-1's had the P&R. A typo maybe?
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12-26-2012, 07:23 PM
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There seems to be some confusion but if you read SNW19's post again he is correct in what he is saying and he is not saying the 15 line had recessed cylinders,
Quote:
Originally Posted by snw19_357
That's because although the pinned barrel went away at the same time, the '-5 change' only eliminated the recessed cylinders.
At least through the end of the ten digit product codes in 1984; 15s, 17s, 18s, etc. continued with the -4 while the Magnums moved on to the next dash.
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All 14's and 15's are non recessed and for this reason there was no dash revision change when they stopped pinning the barrels on the 14-4's and 15-4's which are found both with pinned and Non Pinned barrels,
The Model 14-5 revison got the full underlug barrel ,
The Model 15-4 had a tapered barrel where the 15-5 revison got a Heavy Barrel and looks like this:
Top view
Incidentally the 15-5 looks just like the old four inch (14-2 and 14-3 Dayton or "Hanen" HB design) which looked like this:
On the rimfire side the 18-4 was the end of the line for the non IL 18 which did not get a HB like the 15 line did but was instead replaced by a four inch version of the HB 17-5 and early HB 17-6 which have the same barrel profile as the 15-5 (thats right the 14-2, 14-3 Dayton special ) ,
S&W dropped the HB on the 17-6 without a dash revision change going with a full underlug barrel version of the 17-6 and suddenly the 6" Model 17 line looked like the Model 14 line again but with full underlug barrels,
14,16,17 dash 5 full underlugs:
Of course to make things more confusing for us S&W went and made a six inch version of the HB Model 15-6 shown below for comparison:
Also while they stopped recessing .357 , .41 and .44 mag cylinders they never stopped recessing the .22lR cylinders...confused yet ?
it gets better as while its true that most Non Pinned revolvers will have the small L side T.M. actually many P&R 19-4's had a smaller L side TM before the change to the 19-5.
Sorry for the long posts but these S&W inconsistencies are a little confusing without details and pictures ,
I suppose the only rule that holds true with S&W is there are no rules with S&W.
Last edited by Engine49guy; 12-26-2012 at 08:18 PM.
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12-26-2012, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
That's some great detailed information, Nipster, but I thought all 66-1's had the P&R. A typo maybe?
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MOST of them are. Towards the end of production, some may have been lacking either pinned barrels or recessed cylinders as they ran out of parts. This was the case with most models in this late 1981 / early 1982 timeframe
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12-26-2012, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nipster
MOST of them are. Towards the end of production, some may have been lacking either pinned barrels or recessed cylinders as they ran out of parts. This was the case with most models in this late 1981 / early 1982 timeframe
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Alright. Didn't know that about the -1. Thanks. My 66-1 is from around 1978. The original receipt is around here somewhere.
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12-26-2012, 07:40 PM
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These are the very conversations we all need to have to get to the bottom of this model madness !
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12-26-2012, 08:02 PM
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Yea, we either get to the bottom of it or we all go mad. How about a 27-5 from 1992 with a 6 1/2" barrel and counter bored cylinder. That was a special case, but I wonder if those cylinders were just laying around or were they manufactured for that case.
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12-26-2012, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
Alright. Didn't know that about the -1. Thanks. My 66-1 is from around 1978. The original receipt is around here somewhere.
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It's an almost certainty that anything made before 1981 is pinned and if a magnum, recessed
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12-26-2012, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nipster
It's an almost certainty that anything made before 1981 is pinned and if a magnum, recessed
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I understand all that. I just was not aware there were 66-1's that were not P&R. Not that I'm surprised mind you.
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12-26-2012, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
I understand all that. I just was not aware there were 66-1's that were not P&R. Not that I'm surprised mind you.
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They are known as "Transitional" Models and exhibit chacteristics of both revisions.
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12-26-2012, 08:32 PM
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Gentlemen, I'll offer the observation that confusion over pinned, recessed, P&R, pinned, but not recessed, etc has been introduced and it was not from what the OP offered. He was referring to a Combat Masterpiece, a .38 Special that regardless of barrel pin status, never had a recessed cartridge cylinder, which would have only been found in the Combat 'Magnums'. These as you all know did of course for periods of time have both pinned and recessed functional features. Model-dash numbers only relate to the actual model of any gun, not a universal description. I only submit this due to reading every post multiple times and personally came away confused and wouldn't want an owner or prospective buyer to be anything but certain in the subject.
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12-26-2012, 08:35 PM
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Good luck on that.
BTW, I plead guilty to highjacking the thread, and not a count more.
Last edited by Retired W4; 12-26-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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12-26-2012, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
They are known as "Transitional" Models and exhibit chacteristics of both revisions.
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Kinda like this Pre-17 K22 with 10 groove straps, etc.?
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12-26-2012, 09:55 PM
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To The OP
To the OP, kdailey, that is one fine looking revolver. I have seen another gun you have posted and both are worthy of praise. Keep them coming.
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12-26-2012, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
Kinda like this Pre-17 K22 with 10 groove straps, etc.?
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Acually the thing that catches my eye is that your K22 appears to be a 4 screw frame with a tapered barrel,
Doesnt look like your frame is taper cut though hard to tell from the pic.
Was it a "Heavy " barrel that was replaced with an older tapered barrel ?
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12-26-2012, 11:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
Acually the thing that catches my eye is that your K22 appears to be a 4 screw frame with a tapered barrel,
Doesnt look like your frame is taper cut though hard to tell from the pic.
Was it a "Heavy " barrel that was replaced with an older tapered barrel ?
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Good eye. For all I know it could have been a K 32 with a barrel sleeve and the cylinder replaced to .22 (plus a few other modifications). It does have the slightly tapered barrel and rib. SN: K 283xxx. What would you suggest I look for so the frame might match the barrel, or not. Never say never with S&W. It is after all a "Transitional" gun. Heck, this could be a really rare variation.
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12-26-2012, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retired W4
Good eye. For all I know it could have been a K 32 with a barrel sleeve and the cylinder replaced to .22 (plus a few other modifications). It does have the slightly tapered barrel and rib. SN: K 283xxx. What would you suggest I look for so the frame might match the barrel, or not. Never say never with S&W. It is after all a "Transitional" gun. Heck, this could be a really rare variation.
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Perhaps best to start a new thread and post up some clear pics so others will comment,
But the barrel appears to be rollstamped .22 Long Rifle ,
Look under the ejector rod on the barrel, is there a serial number stamped there and if so does this number match the one on the heel and cylinder face?
Whats its app serial or DOB, I have not seen a tapered barrel 4 screw but rule no#1 in S&W is there are no rules.
The 5 screw tapered barrel K22's faded out as the "Heavy" Masterpieces faded in , Im not saying it isnt original but it would have to be one of the VERY early 4 screw frames to have a left over tapered barrel, Mtter o fact I have seen an early 4 screw with an original High Speed hammer so again anythig is possable.
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12-27-2012, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy
Perhaps best to start a new thread and post up some clear pics so others will comment,
But the barrel appears to be rollstamped .22 Long Rifle ,
Look under the ejector rod on the barrel, is there a serial number stamped there and if so does this number match the one on the heel and cylinder face?
Whats its app serial or DOB, I have not seen a tapered barrel 4 screw but rule no#1 in S&W is there are no rules.
The 5 screw tapered barrel K22's faded out as the "Heavy" Masterpieces faded in , Im not saying it isnt original but it would have to be one of the VERY early 4 screw frames to have a left over tapered barrel, Mtter o fact I have seen an early 4 screw with an original High Speed hammer so again anythig is possable.
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New thread coming soon, with pictures. I have nothing to loose (spelling intentional), and everything to gain.
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12-29-2012, 01:11 AM
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I have a 66-1 that is non pinned but with recessed cylinder
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