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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 01-25-2013, 03:38 PM
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Default 642 vs. 637 Advice

I've been thinking of purchasing a J frame for weeks, but I'm still not sure which one is better. I've shot the 642 and I'm not in love with the D/A only trigger. I think the 637's advantage of SA/DA may be offset by the hammer's tendency to catch when used with a pocket holster. In addition the 637 is only available with the internal lock . The 642 can be obtained with or without the IL. I have no idea why S&W sells the 642 with or w/o the IL, but the 637 only comes with the IL. I have found that the 1911 I carry is too large to conceal during the warm and humid summers we have in SE Pennsylvania. My other choice for pocket carry, is a 9mm semi-auto like a Beretta Nano or Ruger LC9 (don't feel comfortable with a smaller .380 pistol). My experience with small semi autos is that even if they are reliable (and that usually takes putting at least 200 or more rounds through it) they still have a couple of more rounds in them, also I have well over a thousand rounds of 9mm. Yes I know and have the rubber strips that hold six rounds of .38, but that's still not as fast a reload as carrying an extra magazine. So I am leaning toward the J frame, but both the 642 and 637 as stated above have what I consider big disadvantages. Any thoughts from other J frame people?
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:52 PM
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Not much to think about...99% of civilians will never be in a situation where a rapid reload using a high capacity magazine is warranted. I carry a Government Colt 1911 only in a shoulder holster, and only when I'm hiking, mountain biking in the winter through forests, and when I'm 4-wheeling. Apart from that, there is nothing that says absolute reliability and you never know it's there when carrying a J frame snubby. As for the ILS, I personally find it more of an urban legend, and in those rare instances where the lock self engages, the reports I've read apply to the scandium feather weights that have been shooting big bang .357 loads for an extended period of time.

Nobody is going to convnce you one way or the other...the choice and decision is really yours.
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Old 01-26-2013, 01:43 AM
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I have a 642 and several various other J-frame (hammer) handguns. For pocket carry and personal defense the 642 is the superior piece. Use of the single-action mode of fire not only slows you down but creates a very real safety hazard. The NYPD found that the cocked handgun was one of the primary causes of ADs.

It will take a bit of practice, but I assure you learning to properly use the double-action mechanism in your handgun would be the way to go.

Best of luck,

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Old 01-26-2013, 01:51 AM
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Definitely get the M642. The Centennials are, I believe, S&Ws best selling revolvers. They are perfect for pocket carry because there is nothing to snag. I bought a M642 and a M640-1 in .357 Magnum on the same day in 1997. I rarely carried the Airweight, but carried the Magnum constantly. It has been semi-retired since I got a M340PD a few years ago. It lives constantly in my non-dominant side pocket, and I literally forget it's there.
If you have the money, buy both. But definitely get the Centennial.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:06 AM
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I'm also going to say to go with the 642. As you pointed out the 637's hammer has a tendency to catch when used with a pocket holster. When you need your gun you need to be able to draw it without fumbling with it. Also, in a defense situation you'll be firing in double action anyway.
The 642 is DAO but with practice it becomes easier to shoot accurately.
Make sure to get a proper pocket holster and practice with it.
I daily carry a 442, which is the blued steel version of the 642, in either a pocket holster or owb.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:43 AM
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I've tried both the 431 and the 642. In some instances
the hammer does snag. I only shoot DA these days, so for
me, the hammer is useless.
Like the earlier posters said, with practice comes accuracy.
The 642 is pretty accurate to 25 yards, and it's DAO.
JMHO, TACC1

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Old 01-26-2013, 02:20 PM
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Looks like the 642 (with no IL) is the way to go for pocket carry. Thanks for all of your input.
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honey Badger View Post
I've been thinking of purchasing a J frame for weeks, but I'm still not sure which one is better. I've shot the 642 and I'm not in love with the D/A only trigger. I think the 637's advantage of SA/DA may be offset by the hammer's tendency to catch when used with a pocket holster. In addition the 637 is only available with the internal lock . The 642 can be obtained with or without the IL. I have no idea why S&W sells the 642 with or w/o the IL, but the 637 only comes with the IL. I have found that the 1911 I carry is too large to conceal during the warm and humid summers we have in SE Pennsylvania. My other choice for pocket carry, is a 9mm semi-auto like a Beretta Nano or Ruger LC9 (don't feel comfortable with a smaller .380 pistol). My experience with small semi autos is that even if they are reliable (and that usually takes putting at least 200 or more rounds through it) they still have a couple of more rounds in them, also I have well over a thousand rounds of 9mm. Yes I know and have the rubber strips that hold six rounds of .38, but that's still not as fast a reload as carrying an extra magazine. So I am leaning toward the J frame, but both the 642 and 637 as stated above have what I consider big disadvantages. Any thoughts from other J frame people?
What you want is a 638. Best of all worlds. No snag and you don't loose the ability to use it SA when the mood strikes.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:23 PM
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Why run the risk w/the IL when the 642/442 can be had without this silly feature? In reality if you had to use your gun in a SD situation you will most likely not have time for a single action shot. My EDC is a 442 that I've practiced with enough to be confident in its double action pull.
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Old 01-26-2013, 06:28 PM
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i have 60's, 36's, a 640, several airweights and a 360 pd ti-lite. the one that seems to always be with me is the 442-1. next up is my 638. the 442 is probably one of my EDC's 90% of the time. galco horsehide pocket holster, or a bell charter oak kydex owb with my 638 in the other holster. J's are a great self defense tool. 75-85% of all self def shootings involve 3-5 rnds from one or both shooters combined. theat the best reason to carry two guns yet, no reload worries!
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Old 01-26-2013, 07:32 PM
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I also would go with the 642, & I wouldn't worry about the IL. You will learn to shoot it with the DA only & no snags on the draw.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
What you want is a 638. Best of all worlds. No snag and you don't loose the ability to use it SA when the mood strikes.
My sentiments exactly. I carried a 442 for a year or more, but found it would rust (on the crane) if I didn't wipe it down every night. When I went looking for a stainless substitute I picked the Bodyguard-style 638, having had an original (all steel 49) for many years. No snag frame and typical S&W J frame double action, but with the option for a carefully aimed single shot should the (unlikely) need - or (more likely) desire - ever arise. It is great fun to take a break from close-up double action practice, and knock down steel plates at 25 yards, reliably, with carefully aimed single action shots from your pocket size daily carry gun.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:35 AM
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I have them both in the blued (or, modern black +P) version. Pocket carry is my second to last option (ankle is last.) I shoot them both double action. I like the sleek look of the Centennial but my favorite is the 37. There is just something about having the option of a single action shot. I tried the Bodyguard style but could just never warm to it. My preference is probably based on having one or more Chief Special's around for the last few decades. In fact, I am in the process of getting another 37.
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Old 01-27-2013, 12:51 AM
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My experience; I pocket carried a 36 for awhile. I also have a 60-9 that I carry IWB. I recently sold the 36 and bought a pro-series 642. It is cut for moonclips, no ILS (not that the ILS is a big deal). I'd say the 642 is not a range gun (neither are the 36, 60 - or 637 for that matter). So I don't miss the SA capability. I'm happy with the 642 but your mileage may vary.
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:48 AM
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I looked for a long time and finally came across a 638-2. I passed on seveal model 38's as I wanted a no lock with the J magnum frame. FInally found one last fall and got it off gunbroker into my hands for $475 which included shipping and my dealer transfer fee.
It ain't going anywhere!!
I still have my 337 and love it but I really wanted a snag free gun for pocket carry (although quite frankly, I have carried the 337 in my pocket and it has never snagged ). At some point I may get a titanium cylinder fit to the 638 to shave some weight (my 337 weighs less loaded than the 638 weighs empty). The only centennial I would consider would be a 342-One was for sale here recently at a pretty good price, but alas at the time the cat's tail was short so I let it pass. That and I really couldn't justify buying another 38
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:09 PM
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Well, to continue the 442 vs. 637 decision, here's what has happened. The 637 I had on order at a LGS in Pennsylvania (lived there at the time) was canceled. It seems the President back then had a reputation for being pro gun control. This resulted in S&W (or the LGS) to raise the price on the 637 I ordered so when it became available, I was given the choice of the gun at the higher price or my deposit refunded. I took the money, somewhat annoyed at the situation. In late 2013 I relocated to Wyoming and was without any S&W products, therefore absent from this forum. Recently, I became concerned carrying my small semi-auto, because of its habit of mysteriously going off safety. It was a 1911 design (brand and model upon request) and I didn't want it to accidentally go boom and rip into my leg. Now I went back to the S&W choice again. I know there will be unhappiness and many groans because of my decision, but I choose the 637. Why, you say! Well, although I am aware the revolver is not a target gun and in a pinch not only will I not be able to pull the hammer back, but I will also not have time to run home to change my underwear. I have ordered a holster from my regular supplier and I will try to practice putting my thumb over the hammer when pulling the revolver out of my right front pocket in order to avoid getting it caught in my pocket. I did look at a Ruger LCR and a 642. The 637 has a better trigger than either, but that's because they are DAO. Also I like metal guns better than plastic in the case of the Ruger. Gentlemen (and ladies) grab your flamethrowers
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:37 PM
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Actually, the centennial models have the better double-action trigger. Placing your thumb on the hammer is supposedly a solution to drawing an exposed hammer snub from the pocket and it works well enough done relatively slowly in controlled conditions, but quickly fishing it out of a pocket in a panic during the chaos of an actual defense encounter is a different matter altogether. I've even seen someone inadvertently cock one during a ECQ force-on-force scenario. The enclosed hammer models are also much more reliable in contact distance fights since an exposed hammer can be grabbed or fouled by becoming entangled in clothing during a disarm attempt, grappling or when being shot from the pocket(or purse). Single action simply isn't (realistically)needed for self-defense and with the centennial frame you can assume a higher grip on the backstrap improving leverage and effectively lowering the bore axis for more recoil control and faster follow up shots. I hope the 637 works out for you, but obviously I feel you made the wrong choice. Good luck.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:38 PM
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I pocket carry. I’m pretty good sized so I have large pockets. I own a 640-1, 360j, and and 637.
I carry every day the 360 strictly because of its lite weight.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:40 PM
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:44 PM
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I only have exposed hammer revolvers, I can't stand DAO. As far as the hammer catching on the draw, that's a lack of training, not a given. I've never had any hammer, revolver or pistol, snag on the draw, ever. Also there are certainly times when a precise single action shot would be just what you want in a defensive scenario. And as far as the lock, it's a non-issue. They offer it on select DAO J frames because of their heavy triggers.
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Old 05-24-2018, 06:25 PM
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I'm late to the party here but.... I can say the best thing I like about my 442 is the fact that the enclosed backstrap doesn't collect dirt/lint/junk when carried in an ankle holster (everyday for me)
Sure that holds true for pocket carry also.

Having said that...there's no wrong choice. J frames are great ccw guns regardless of which model. I carry a M36 IWB and it works great. Rarely use the SA mode on it but it's there...doesn't hurt a thing
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Old 05-24-2018, 07:24 PM
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Okay, for full disclosure, I will say that I owned both a 642 and a Ruger LCR. I had a 642 in 1999, after the Colt Pocket nine was a malfunction waiting to happen with a few trips back to Colt, I was again complaining to the shooting range/gun store owner, who sold me the Colt. He had tried to get the Colt to manage an entire magazine of 9mm cartridges without success. He offered to take the Colt and $45 in trade for the 642. I had no operating issues with the 642 and had it for a few years. I don't recall why or for what I got rid of it for, but I am not faithful to my guns and I just love to get new ones. Basically, I am a gun addict. Somewhere down the line, I picked up a Ruger LCR. At this point, I am not sure why or when. However, in both cases I did not like the DOA both guns had. I feel that should I ever need to defend myself with the 637, I will NOT cock the hammer until it is out of my pocket. If time permits, I will cock the hammer for a more accurate shot. Since fortunately I have never experienced shooting at anyone, I have no idea what I would do. It's possible I would just fill my pants with not so solid waste. BTW, as a resident of a cooler state, I plan to carry the 637 during the short summer months. During most of the year, I will carry a SIG Sauer P239 9mm.

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Old 05-24-2018, 08:43 PM
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another 638 vote from me.....No snag, safe, great trigger. Love the Humpback! IL is a non-issue in any j-frame as far as i am concerned
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
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Okay, for full disclosure, I will say that I owned both a 642 and a Ruger LCR. I had a 642 in 1999, after the Colt Pocket nine was a malfunction waiting to happen with a few trips back to Colt, I was again complaining to the shooting range/gun store owner, who sold me the Colt. He had tried to get the Colt to manage an entire magazine of 9mm cartridges without success. He offered to take the Colt and $45 in trade for the 642. I had no operating issues with the 642 and had it for a few years. I don't recall why or for what I got rid of it for, but I am not faithful to my guns and I just love to get new ones. Basically, I am a gun addict. Somewhere down the line, I picked up a Ruger LCR. At this point, I am not sure why or when. However, in both cases I did not like the DOA both guns had. I feel that should I ever need to defend myself with the 637, I will NOT cock the hammer until it is out of my pocket. If time permits, I will cock the hammer for a more accurate shot. Since fortunately I have never experienced shooting at anyone, I have no idea what I would do. It's possible I would just fill my pants with not so solid waste. BTW, as a resident of a cooler state, I plan to carry the 637 during the short summer months. During most of the year, I will carry a SIG Sauer P239 9mm.
I'm not sure what type of scenario you're envisioning being involved in, but civilian personal defense encounters are generally fast, close and short-lived. You must be able to respond quickly, decisively and effectively against close-range ambush style attacks. There are virtually endless videos and stats available that demonstrate this.The notion of absolutely needing to make a longer range precision shot with a snub revolver just isn't very realistic. It could theoretically happen, but so could just about anything as there are nearly endless possibilities. Even if there were time to cock it to single-action(probably not), it's still usually a bad idea. And if pistol sniping or engaging active-shooters and/or terrorists is a priority to you and something you honestly feel is likely(it's not by a large margin), I would probably forgo the snub altogether. What is actually important for civilian personal defense is to focus on and prepare for the most likely scenario and in those reactive close-quarter(or even extreme close-quarter/contact) ranges, the enclosed hammer revolver excels.

Massad Ayoob: Hammer or… "-Less?" | The Daily Caller

The case for the double action only revolver. - www.GrantCunningham.com www.GrantCunningham.com

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/d...nly-revolvers/
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:41 PM
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Are they forgetting that it's DA/SA?
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:56 PM
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I prefer the black Model 437, 438, or 442. The finish is much better than the 600 series j frames. They all shoot about the same.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:51 AM
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I see a few frames back you picked the 642. You won’t regret it. The J-frame is a great pocket gun. I carry a 442 in my pocket at all times. Most of the time a second 442 or 36 is in the waistband. I have only one problem with J-Frames........Adiction.
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:58 AM
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The Centenial's 642/442/640/432 do have a better trigger pull due to the removal of that one part mentioned in these articles. Also the ONLY part I have ever broken on a J-Frame is that very part. Mine broke a couple years ago and it went back in for repairs. I was dry firing and it stopped firing. I felt a problem in the trigger and it would not pull correctly.

I peaked inside and that part was snapped in half. I had less than 2000 rounds and probably 6000 dry fires I am guessing.

They returned my J-Frame with a BETTER trigger than before and the part was replaced.

The Centenial's are MORE reliable I think and have a smoother trigger. That being said. I just like hammers.
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:57 AM
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With time and practice it gets really easy to use the SA on a 638.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:04 AM
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Thanks for posting those links. I've read them all before, but I enjoyed the refresher course. Perfect!

I carry either Centennials or a bobbed Baby Chiefs for all the reasons these three guys highlight. No thinking required.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:11 AM
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King of the hill


Yes. I agree. The silver color reflects light. The 442 absorbs light so it is heavier.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:24 AM
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OP-triggers weights DAO or SAO are not that important in a self defense situation. It is not like careful shot placement at the range.
Bad guys wont hold still for you to shoot them.
You will not notice a 1,6,or 12 pound trigger or long trigger pull.
Practice your point and shoot at 3&10 yds. Practice again at home with a laser.
There are free shot timer apps for the phone. Get off all five shots on center mass within 3 seconds from the holster to simulate a life death scenario.
I carry J frames but there is no accuracy difference when I practice with the SP101.
I too have a P239 but it wont make it into my rotation.
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Old 05-25-2018, 10:40 AM
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The 638 works for me.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:14 PM
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For a number of reasons, some physical and neurological, I definitely don't want the option of single action fire. I have no surface sensation in the thumb and first two fingers of either hand, but before that became a problem I decided that in an up-close-and-nasty defense situation SA would be both unnecessary and risky.

When I decided, twenty years ago, to go to a pocket-carried snub revolver as my EDC, the considerations in the three articles above--I did a lot of research and talked to cops and other experienced people--tipped the balance for me.

For a couple of years I carried a Rossi 88, a very decent inexpensive clone of the Model 60. Immediately after buying it I had a smith bob the hammer and polish the internals a little. It had a surprisingly good DA trigger, equal to or better than a few Smiths I had handled. I wish I had kept it as backup.

But when I got the chance I jumped at a very lightly-used 1990 CEN- prefix 640. It met every condition I had decided on after doing the research, and it's been my EDC ever since.

I particularly like the high hold the design affords me, enhanced further by the Pachmayr Compacs I put on it immediately. Makes it much more controllable.
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Old 05-26-2018, 01:18 PM
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I carry both the 638-3 (IL deactivated) and the 642-1 (no lock) and although the 642 gets carried more, both shoot he same and I never use the single action on the 638 anyway. I just like both.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:38 PM
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Can't have too many J-frames. My first, and still a favorite, is an old Model 36 squarebutt. A humpback 649 followed me home one time, and it's fun to explain that design to the newbies at the range. The 642-1 has been the pocket carry of choice for the last decade, mostly for the weight advantage. As others have said, the DA trigger takes some getting used to, but the trigger gets better with some dry fire.
One advantage of the hammerless snubs that hasn't been mentioned here is that they won't get jammed with a stray dime or pocket crud down behind the hammer.
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Old 05-26-2018, 09:51 PM
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Can't have too many J-frames. My first, and still a favorite, is an old Model 36 squarebutt. A humpback 649 followed me home one time, and it's fun to explain that design to the newbies at the range. The 642-1 has been the pocket carry of choice for the last decade, mostly for the weight advantage. As others have said, the DA trigger takes some getting used to, but the trigger gets better with some dry fire.
One advantage of the hammerless snubs that hasn't been mentioned here is that they won't get jammed with a stray dime or pocket crud down behind the hammer.
Nor will they get jammed in a dedicated pocket holster in a pocket that only has the gun in a holster. The vast majority believes I erred in buying a S&W 637. So, I have no choice to wait for delivery of my NIB 637 on Wednesday, 5/30 and immediately sell it. Fortunately, I bought in on the internet at an excellent price. I should be able to sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and add the difference for a Kimber K6s Stainless (NS) Revolver in 357 Magnum as it is a double action only revolver. Thank you for all your input.
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Old 05-26-2018, 11:40 PM
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Nor will they get jammed in a dedicated pocket holster in a pocket that only has the gun in a holster. The vast majority believes I erred in buying a S&W 637. So, I have no choice to wait for delivery of my NIB 637 on Wednesday, 5/30 and immediately sell it. Fortunately, I bought in on the internet at an excellent price. I should be able to sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and add the difference for a Kimber K6s Stainless (NS) Revolver in 357 Magnum as it is a double action only revolver. Thank you for all your input.
Don't let other people change your mind, no one even mentioned the the "Gunsmoke" customs that were all the rage when they came out, the only complaint I heard about them was cosmetic. They did have bobbed hammers though.

Take delivery, look the 637 over, take a few days off the forum to clear your head and re think your decision, after all, you wanted the 637 to start with. You could slick up that 637 for less than you would lose on the deal.
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Old 05-27-2018, 03:39 AM
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Who says you erred? No way! The Chief special was carried for many years by those who put their life on the line. Dont write it off, you will be fine. Practice practice practice. And get the black K6 version too while youre at it.
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Old 05-27-2018, 07:20 AM
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Nor will they get jammed in a dedicated pocket holster in a pocket that only has the gun in a holster. The vast majority believes I erred in buying a S&W 637. So, I have no choice to wait for delivery of my NIB 637 on Wednesday, 5/30 and immediately sell it. Fortunately, I bought in on the internet at an excellent price. I should be able to sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and add the difference for a Kimber K6s Stainless (NS) Revolver in 357 Magnum as it is a double action only revolver. Thank you for all your input.
I don’t think you erred. Get to know your new 637. Shoot it. Dry fire it. Carry it in all the positions to see where it carries best for you. You may never use single action for Self Defense but, it’s fun on the Range and shooting outside to see how far away you can shoot. If you hate the hammer you can Bobbi it . You may find it no problem and keep it. Masad Ayoob has a draw technique for hammer guns. When he draws from a pocket he puts his thumb on the hammer. Nothing catches it and it makes a smooth draw. If this is your first J -Frame, my bet is you will be hooked and want more.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:37 AM
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Stick with the 637. All of the objections to exposed-hammer J-frames largely boil down to a ridiculous and hypocritical "my size fits you" mentality.
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Old 05-27-2018, 10:45 AM
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I know more people with 637s than 642/442 and few with 638's. I think the 637 hammer slides out of a pocket fine if you hold your hand so the pocket opens and your hand blocks the hammer from hooking. I have never had an issue with hammer guns.
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Old 05-27-2018, 11:20 AM
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The trigger pull of the 642 is that way for a good reason. Safety.
The 642 is also the best seller by far. For good reasons.
If you intend to pocket carry, you should not want a hammer.
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Old 05-27-2018, 04:39 PM
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Dem hammers...they get you killed in da streetz.
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Old 05-27-2018, 08:55 PM
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Nor will they get jammed in a dedicated pocket holster in a pocket that only has the gun in a holster. The vast majority believes I erred in buying a S&W 637. So, I have no choice to wait for delivery of my NIB 637 on Wednesday, 5/30 and immediately sell it. Fortunately, I bought in on the internet at an excellent price. I should be able to sell it for a couple of hundred dollars and add the difference for a Kimber K6s Stainless (NS) Revolver in 357 Magnum as it is a double action only revolver. Thank you for all your input.
Don't give up on that 637 just yet.
You are absolutely correct that a pocket rocket should be in a proper holster and should be the only item in that pocket. I'd cheerfully carry one that way, and have carried a Model 36 like that before I bought the Airweight. Don't know what the Kimber weighs, but I doubt it's as light as a 637, and you'll appreciate the difference.
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Old 05-27-2018, 09:44 PM
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Although you are intending to carry the 637 in your pocket, you might end up preferring to carry it on your belt. In that case the exposed hammer should not be an issue and might be preferable instead


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