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Old 02-27-2013, 01:04 AM
clevolver clevolver is offline
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Default Model 640 with "NYPD" stamp on frame

I picked up a new J-frame yesterday, a Model 640 .38 Spl, which looks to be in quite good shape. I noticed a stamping on the frame that said NYPD. Figured it must have been a retired backup pistol that had been sold to to the civilian market after decommission.

Googled a little and I've read a few bits here and there that suggested that these were built for New York Police Department and were of better quality somehow than run of the mill 640's, possibly better triggers? But I haven't gotten anything too specific or any authorative confirmation on that. Can anyone help shed some light on this?



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Old 02-27-2013, 08:40 AM
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Sweet find! Curious about the story behind this as well.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:51 AM
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Not much story so far. My research says NYPD ditched revolvers a while ago, and these apparently flooded the market when they stopped allowing their officers to carry them. I imagine if this happened today they'd have them all destroyed.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:04 AM
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There are several threads here about NYPD approved revolvers. My understanding is (at least as far as the stainless revolver era) that all were individually purchased by officers from an approved list. I don't think this particular model 640 was on this list; there was a later version, the 640-2, with a matte finish that was, but not stamped NYPD.

I also think it was possible to carry a backup gun not on the approved list but there was greater personal liability involved; perhaps this was one that was inspected and stamped as OK for carry? There are several NYPD officers and at least one armorer here that will know for certain.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:13 AM
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Yes, I have one of the 640-2 NYPD 38's.
It's a matte finish and the only stamping of NYPD is on the box.
I was told since 357 was too much to handle, they made the heavier frame but only in the 38 special caliber.
Kinda cool bit of history.
I'm looking for an unfluted cylinder for it now.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:44 PM
Loyaljeeper Loyaljeeper is offline
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You should spend the money for a letter to determine more about it. To be honest it is the first stamped 640 I have seen. There is a chance it does not have a better trigger but a worse trigger. Seriously, many NYPD guns get altered to give it a stiffer trigger. Supposedly over the last 30+ years all NYPD handguns are personally owned.
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Old 02-27-2013, 06:33 PM
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[QUOTE=illinoimike;137050552]
I was told since 357 was too much to handle, they made the heavier frame but only in the 38 special caliber.
Kinda cool bit of history.
QUOTE]

I have a 1990-built 640 no-dash etched, inside the frame, "Tested For +P+". It's my EDC, but loaded with +P only. S&W didn't seem to want to discuss how long these were made, or how many were produced. Just gave me the manufacture date and the disclaimer that they don't recommend +P+ in their guns. I found that some other people own these variants with the +P+ etching, so mine's certainly not unique. I read somewhere that these 640's may have been built at the request of LEO's looking for a "hot .38" alternative to the .357 Magnum.

I can't vouch for the accuracy of any of this, but I wonder if it might have some bearing on this question.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:07 PM
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I wouldn't believe the stamping. The guns were privately owned, so wouldn't be stamped that way, and the stamping looks crude.

Could be the NYPD kept some that were dept. property for issue to personnel whose own guns were temporarily seized as evidence following shootings, or such. Be interesting to know.

I'd sure want verification before believing any stamped NYPD guns.

Alas, it seems that the RCMP did destroy their M-10's when they went to 9mm autos. But those were issued items. The NY guns were private property and retired with the officers. Some still carry .38's, but the guns retire as they do.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:16 AM
clevolver clevolver is offline
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I bought it for CCW, not for the stamp, so I'm mainly just curious about it, not interested in it from a collector standpoint.

I have yet to take it to the range, but having done practice dry fire for the last two nights, I have to say that I LOVE the trigger on this thing. It's a heavy pull, like you'd want in a revolver that might see pocket carry duty, although I can't measure it to say how heavy, but I can feel right where it's going to break, so I can reliably pull right up to that point, then hold it right on the cusp of breaking, and pull the rest of the way for a SA-like break. I can even index the cylinder without dropping the hammer, purely with trigger control, darn near 100% of the time. I wouldn't do that loaded, of course.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:34 AM
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I am not an expert on this but a few things.

The 640 no dash was the approved gun at one point, 38 special with a frosted finish, aka vapor hone. It was a very fine sand blast finish. This finish did wear off.

The 640 came in after the M60 NY-1 was recalled and lasted until the semi auto compacts came about.

I think all of these 640s were in the alphabet serial range like ADA 3112 type of thing.

I havent seen NYPD marked N.Y.P.D, this does not mean it wasnt done, its just different.

NYPD did own some guns as I understand it and they were department property and marked. They were owned for different reasons over they years. I have read of loaner guns and evaluation guns. These were marked "Property of"

Now most of what I wrote is gained from reading the internet and we know that everything on the net has to be correct

I might be tempted to letter it, it would be the only way to know. If it does letter as being delivered to NYPD we still would not know if it was an officers or Dept owned.

Other than the finish the 640 was a standard model no other modifications were done to it for them.

Its a nice piece and a interesting story. If you do letter it please share the results with us.
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Old 02-28-2013, 09:51 AM
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I havent lettered this gun, I bought it from a retired officer through a NY shop. So I have a very high level of confidence on its pedigree







The spotty finish seems how these wold get holster wear. As it progressed it would turn to a bright polish.

Last edited by wheelgun28; 02-28-2013 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 09-27-2013, 05:11 PM
Dave11626 Dave11626 is offline
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This was an NYPD authorized off-duty firearm which around 1997 they stopped granting new hires the option to carry it. The cops can still carry it now as long as they came on before the 1997 cutoff and qualified on the gun at the range.
After 1997 the NYPD authorized the Glock 26, Khar K9 and a few other 9mm handguns including a small S&W auto which the model escapes me now. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:48 PM
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As I understand it, NYPD does not now, and has not in my memory, issued departmentally owned guns. Officers bought their own from an approved list through the NYPD equipment bureau or from private dealers like John Jovino.

Thus, I am skeptical that the NYPD markings were applied by the city. In addition, the marking does not look like S&W stamped department markings, nor is the marking in the correct place as far as what S&W has always done when they do stamp departmentally owned guns.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:26 PM
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The only guns they issue are the service weapons which you basically pay for when you are hired. You bring a money order for $600 or so and that includes recruit uniforms, duty gear which is cheaply made, study materials and the night sites for your firearm which from what I remember was on a different money order for some reason.
The off duty ones you purchase on your own and bring to the range for inspection. I have seen a few 640s with the stamp on them but was probably done by the owners for some reason.
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Old 09-28-2013, 12:42 AM
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There are a few current and former MOS from NYPD here, someone should come along that can answer any question you might have about the revolvers. Do a search of "NYPD revolvers" and you'll no doubt see some posts by those members, perhaps you can send a pm to one and find out all you'll want to know. Nice 640 by the way (the .38spl model is my personal favorite j frame) regardless of whether it's a "real" PD gun or not.
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:04 PM
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Dave, welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you were/are an MOS. There are others here too.

I happen to have a few NYPD revolvers...



I have a few others too just havent added to the picture
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Old 09-28-2013, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
As I understand it, NYPD does not now, and has not in my memory, issued departmentally owned guns. Officers bought their own from an approved list through the NYPD equipment bureau or from private dealers like John Jovino.

Thus, I am skeptical that the NYPD markings were applied by the city. In addition, the marking does not look like S&W stamped department markings, nor is the marking in the correct place as far as what S&W has always done when they do stamp departmentally owned guns.
The NYPD now issues NYPD recruits their 9MM service pistols. In fact, the Department had been doing that since 1994. These firearms are not, however, marked as NYPD weapons.


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Old 09-28-2013, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
There are several threads here about NYPD approved revolvers. My understanding is (at least as far as the stainless revolver era) that all were individually purchased by officers from an approved list. I don't think this particular model 640 was on this list; there was a later version, the 640-2, with a matte finish that was, but not stamped NYPD.

I also think it was possible to carry a backup gun not on the approved list but there was greater personal liability involved; perhaps this was one that was inspected and stamped as OK for carry? There are several NYPD officers and at least one armorer here that will know for certain.
No unapproved backup gun could be carried legitimately, even by an undercover. All carry weapons were and are subject to Department approval.


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Old 09-28-2013, 06:37 PM
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That was one of the NYPD approved off-duty backup guns. That one was most likely sold at the NYPD equipment section and that is why it is stamped. If purchased from other than the equipment section a gunsmith at NYPD range needed to approve weapon.

Last edited by shamuscull; 09-29-2013 at 08:00 PM.
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Old 11-09-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelgun28 View Post
Dave, welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you were/are an MOS. There are others here too.

I happen to have a few NYPD revolvers...



I have a few others too just havent added to the picture
Thanks, sorry for the delay in response. Former MOS here.
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Old 11-09-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Googled a little and I've read a few bits here and there that suggested that these were built for New York Police Department and were of better quality somehow than run of the mill 640's, possibly better triggers?
Better triggers?

Doesn't NYPD require their Glocks to have a special 100lb pull trigger spring or something equally ridicules?
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:00 PM
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SCSW says there was a 38 spl only 640-2 marked "ANYPD" . It doesn't say where it was stamped but it does say it had a pebble-gray fnish. I assume that it would be stamped 640-2.
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:11 PM
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As to NYPD trigger pull, they only approve the NY-2 or NY-Plus trigger spring. NYSP use the NY-1 trigger spring.

As to NYPD issuing firearms, perhaps I should clarify. In my mind, issuing a firearm means the weapon is the property of the department, to be accounted for and turned in with other department property upon request.

NYPD does not issue firearms in that sense. Each officer purchases the type he wishes from an approved list. The weapon is the private property of the officer and it goes with him if he leaves the department. The last time I checked, the current list had three duty weapons; the S&W 5946, the SIG 226 NYPD and the Glock 19. Due to price, I think the vast majority of officers choose the Glock 19. All of the Glock 19s are fitted with the NY-2 trigger spring, which makes the trigger pull about 12 pounds or so.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg SIG 226 NYPD box.JPG (32.8 KB, 55 views)
File Type: jpg SIG 226 NYPD left side.JPG (33.2 KB, 58 views)
File Type: jpg S&W 5946 NYPD box.jpg (28.6 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg S&W 5946 NYPD left side.jpg (57.9 KB, 57 views)

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Old 11-09-2013, 01:28 PM
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What is an MOS?
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Old 11-09-2013, 01:38 PM
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What is an MOS?
Member of Service.
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Old 04-16-2016, 04:32 PM
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My Model 10-6 was presented to me on Gun Day at the NYPD Police Academy in March of 1966 at a cost to me of $45.00.

When I retired to took it with me since I paid for it.It was listed on my NYC Carry Permit until I sold it to a Firearms Unit officer shortly after retiring.

I also had another revolver on my retirement year NYC Carry Permit Ser# AAH1225 but I can't remember what model it was.

We received an annual clothing/equipment allowance.

The SA trigger pull on my 10-6 was a crisp 3lbs while the DA clocked in at a smooth 8lbs.It was never checked for it's pull weights and I can't say for certain if it was regulated during my service time.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
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...I also had another revolver on my retirement year NYC Carry Permit Ser# AAH1225 but I can't remember what model it was.....
If it was a blue 6-inch .357 with adjustable sights, it was probably a Model 586. I mention it only because I've seen those with AAH s/n prefixes. A stainless gun with those same features would of been a M686.

It was the early L-frames that were first to use that type of three-letter/four-number s/n.
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Old 04-16-2016, 10:45 PM
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The Permit Listed it by
Make = S&W
Ser # = AAH1225,
Caliber =.357
Type = R(revolver)

The other 14 pistols on the permit I remembered

THX for the help
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