I'd go 360PD, it's a great tool that you can carry daily and not even notice it. Take it to the range, learn where it hits, find ammo that you can control and won't jump crimp, live happily ever after...

Just sold my 340PD and am getting the 360PD. . . I found I did not like not having a hammer..

I love my Ruger LCR in a Ghould & Goodrich ankle holster...... So light I can hardly tell I'm wearing it and catch myself always reaching down to make sure it's still there!

If you can find one: yes a SW 432PD- 32 H&R Mag- would not want to be on the wrong end. Low recoil, about 13 oz, easy to carry, ammo is cheaper than anything else right now. Have CT laser grips and have an APEX trigger kit in it.
Good writeup: Range Report: S&W 432PD - The Firing Line Forums

They used to say about software... Good, Cheap, Fast... pick any two.

When it comes to smaller handguns: Powerful, High-Quality, Small, Available, Cheap - pick any three. I think the Keltec PF9 is adequately powerful, and inexpensive, but I sold mine... I think the Kimber Solo is great quality, and powerful, but I won't pay what they're asking. I've got a 442 because it is reasonably powerful, good quality, and reasonably cheap. I've had a Beretta Nano that was probably all 3, I REALLY liked that pistol and it was incredibly accurate for such a small firearm, but it was too small for my hands. I've got a Diamondback that has been flawless for me, but my wife gets FTF's with it... and a 380 is nothing that I'd want to get shot with, but it isn't as powerful as a 9mm, 38, 357, 44 or 45.
So - given availability issues, the trick is finding the right firearms in stock...
I snooped real quick at Gallery of Guns, but they had ZERO in stock firearms of .38, .357, or 44sp caliber. ( I looked at the 44sp because they're good on the "Hammer of THOR" measurement")
Here are some in stock as of right now:
Grabagun has the S&W 60, 357 in a 22oz package for $586
They've got the S&W 442, 38sp+p, 15oz for $386 Grabagun also has the Beretta Nano for $378 or so.

Impact Guns has a selection of what they call "small carry guns."

Finally - this might be a controversial thing to say on an S&W board, but I'm going to make a couple of other suggestions... If you want small, light, concealable, reasonably powerful and cheap - I'd suggest giving consideration to the CZ82 or Polish 64 in 9mm Makarov. It is an uncommon caliber compared to the rest - but , it generally is a surplus firearm, but the CZ82 is really good quality and both it and the other Makarov pistols are no-nonsense reliable firearms. Best of all, some of them are available. You can get the Polish 64's in stock at Classic Firearms for $229. The CZ82, with its doublestack 12rd mag is listed there, but out of stock... and out of stock everywhere else I checked too... Aim Surplus $209, out of stock, $232 at Wideners with 2mags and a holster, but I think it is out of stock... etc.

Finally - if these aren't selections that you like... Check out your LOCAL stores. Lots of smaller revolvers and smaller pistols get returned with very little use because people misjudge the recoil, misjudge the time that it takes to acquire skill with a small revolver or pistol. It does take time to get skilled with a 442. It isn't fun to fire a bunch of 158gr 38special +p ammo through it. Lots of small revolvers will find their way back to the stores that sold them because "my wife didn't like it" or "I couldn't learn how to shoot it" or "I decided to get a glock 26 instead." You might find a bargain locally.

My NAA Pug in 22mag loaded with 5 PDX1 is my gun that goes anywhere. It has also put down more deer than most people's rifle from road strikes and final kill shots when hunting. I am pretty accurate with it.

This is as good as it gets! No hammer to snag, you can shoot it inside your pocket if the need arises. +P .38's are all you need since the short barrel length really makes 357 Mag a flame thrower with no appreciable increase in velocity.342PD weighs 10.8 ounces. Out of production for some time, replaced by the heavier 38/357 models. Took me a long time to find one and probably paid too much maybe, but on the other hand kit it is truly the best all around CCW gun you can carry with a reasonable chance of coming out of a bad situation intact. I have owned, shot and carried them all and this is my pocket pistol of choice. 380 is really no smaller and not even in the same league as +P 38. I also own a Colt 25 and that is as low as I will go in caliber only because of it diminutive size. Owned several 22 derringers and I would prefer a stick instead. Stick might even be better than the Colt. I wouldn't want to escalate a bad situation by showing 22 or such and having the person pull out a 45 and I don't think that 22 is going to intimidate the 45 holder. I think the 22 etc can give a person a false sense of security. To each his own though.

Smith & Wesson, 337PD, discontinued but can still be found.
10.5 oz unloaded, .38+p only. Not comfortable to shoot but comforting.
My cell phone is almost the same weight.
I did get to play with a Shield in .40 recently and really liked it. Think I will get one in 9mm as soon as I can find one.

BUY A COLT MUSTANG POCKETLITE 380 AT GUNBROKER OR ANYWHERE YOU CAN FIND ONE. END OF WORRIES.

Anybody pocket carrying a Shield regularly must either be a pretty big guy, or dresses like a thug or a hick (big time baggy pants/overalls) as I can't seem to manage it gracefully. I occasionally pocket carry my 642 but even that gets too bulky at times.

I know the OP doesn't want to hear it, but comfortable pocket carry for me usually means a .380acp. Pocket carry, although highly convenient, is not the optimal way to go anyway.

I don't know what else to say.

The problem I have with the rimfires for SD isn't so much their capability, it's their reliability. I remember as a kid shooting a bunch of .22LR's out of a bucket and it seemed every 20th round or so failed to fire. I also once knew a guy who tried to kill someone with a little .22LR semi-auto. Needless to say his victim ended up surviving with flying colors because his second shot failed to fire and jammed the pistol, who then proceeded to beat the would-be shooter out of his house with his pair of crutches.

A .22LR or WMR in a handgun for defense? Only if I'm desperate.

I carry this more than anything else lately....convenient and it disappears in any attire. I pocket carry it most of the time. If I ever need it I'm going for head and face shots, if I get a FTF just cock and try again. Stingers are my loading of choice for the Mini. .22 LR is no man stopper but they will penetrate skull. This has been everywhere from out jogging to the console of my car, to a deep deep cover piece back when I had a job that prohibited carry but I still refused to be unprotected. I needed a gun that could not be noticed and this was it.


Got two of these, one in .22 and one in .25. I carry the .25 occasionally but I'm fully aware that its a joke of a defense round. Again, I would go for head and face hits, and then get the heck out of there...that's why they call these "shoot and scoot" guns.



.380 AMT Backup. Some people bash AMT but these were hugely popular with LEO's in the 1980's as backup guns. Mine is reliable and goes bang. It's accurate for what it is but that's irrelevant, these are point blank defense guns. I have pocket carried this but cocked and locked doesn't make me feel comfortable.

I plan to check out the Ruger LCR .22 WMR as a light pocket gun.

The world is just not fair. You can drop a mouse off the empire state building and it will walk away.

Eight and nine pound hammers were used to drive railroad spikes and drive drills in coal mines because they were the biggest hammers a man could swing all day, and they worked well. Lighter hammers just did not have the inertia to push the spike or drill.

In the old west the big revolvers were 44 and 45 caliber. Calvary used 45:50 and infantry used 45:70, and big game hunters (bison and grizzly) used 45 and 50 caliber rifles.

Unfortunately in modern wars carrying lots of bullets is good. So varmint calibers were adopted (without the hollow point???)

During Vietnam an ex-marine friend told me what he was taught. "If your enemy values life wound him. If he does not value life kill him". He explained that it takes two soldiers to carry a wounded soldier back to medical attention. (Were they justifying small bullets?)

Somewhere along the way the high capacity magazines tipped the scales for police, because criminals were buying them. Soon it was noted that hollow point bullets expanded well at 9mm velocities.

After the texas (tower?) sniper incident someone told me about some early police sniper team that used a .22 rimfire semi auto to pin a sniper down while the real police sniper aimed his 30:06 rifle.

One gun writer designed a test shooting a small sandbag hanging from a tree that would stop a bullet but an arrow would go right through it.

So we jump around talking sectional density, numbers of bullets, size of bullets, expanding bullets, high velocity flat shooting bullets...... and what is inertia.

(hint, in Inertia you do not square the Velocity) (Do not tell your 9mm friends)

And all I know is that big fat heavy bullets work well if you can hit anything with that gun. And if you can carry it all day.

I talked with a Los Angeles Sheriffs deputy in the late 1970's about why he was packing a 38 chiefs special (on his belt). He explained that detectives show up later to do investigations, and seldom get in gun fights.

A friend of mine was an MP in his army days. He was not one to exaggerate.

He claimed he was escorting a (large 200 or so pound) prisoner one day and the guy took off running.

He fired at him with his 45 and the guy spun around and fell. Examination showed that his little finger was missing from one hand.

I assume you could shoot little fingers off with a 9mm and never get that effect. I might be wrong.

But it blends in with all the old stories about soldiers being charged with swords and spears and only heavy bullets working well.

(In modern days a chest or head shot with a small hollow point bullet that expands so fast it blows up plastic water jugs sounds like a close second) (unfortunately they do not let you guys shoot water jugs and hanging sand bags at indoor ranges)

(It is why I finally bought a 40 cal - and next pistol will be 45)
(And why I still love 38 special 158 grain semi-wadcutters)

For a nice, small, easy to handle gun, I really like the S&W Bodyguard .380. Weighs maybe 12 ounces including laser.

I was surprised at how nice it feels for such a small gun.

+1 M&P340. Great sight, light, and not ammo sensitive. Unless your pockets are ginormous, the shield is a tight fit. The J-frame, for me, just glides in and out of most pockets. For a deep cover belt carry, the shield is great but that size/shape just doesn't seem to fit a lot of pockets.

I second it. I have a P-11 Kel-Tec and love it.

Yes, they can be found. In fact, I found one in this very forum and picked it up today, virtually NIB...



The light weight of this gun is absolutely amazing. Can't wait to shoot it.

Absolute size does not necessarily correlate to concealability. Among other small semi-auto pistols, I have a BG380, an MK9 and a Baby Browining. None of them pocket carry as well as a J-frame, and the 342 is as light as they get. It's all about how you dress, how you shoot and what you feel comfortable with.

Get a NAA stainless Black Widow 22 magnum with a 2" barrel. Speer is making some fine Hollow Points in that caliber... 40 grains leaving the barrel at 1000 f/s...90 ft/lb of energy. You can put it in your pocket while wearing a T shirt and shorts and not even know it's there. About the size of a ring of keys with a car key attached. With practice you can put 5 rounds into a target the size of a coffee cup at 20 feet. Had a good friend shot and killed with less a few years back.

I'll answer that in the "PISTOL FORUM's". Now, if you're talking about revolvers, then the 360J should fit the bill.

Here are a few comparisons I had on hand:

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Bob

A lot of good info. I have two main pocket guns. First is a 642 no lock. Second is a Ruger LCP. I also have a 351c no lock.

Here's another vote for the 342PD. Lightest Centenial frame ever made. Meant to be carried a lot and shot a little. However, I should clarify that the cylinder is Titanium, not Scandium as previously posted.

gator is right on, mine is a fantastic little gun. 7 in the mag 1 in the tube, great sights and a decent trigger. It is my 'always' gun when off duty.

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Always bet on stupidity.

And the frame is aluminum, rather than Scandium, in the 342 series and their .38 Special AirLite kin.

Made more interesting when obvious typographical errors are so blatant.

By the way, (if memory serves) to do the kinetic energy formula you must change the weight of the bullet into pounds. A really small number, lots of zeros after decimal point. It has been years since I tried it and later found a chart.
½ weight times speed with the speed squared

Muzzle energy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The above site gives a chart in foot pounds and joules. Maybe the person copying the numbers in the above mentioned post looked at Joules.

Chuck Hawks has a very good chart that includes bullet energy.
You may notice that a 38 special bullet must be really light to get up near 400 foot pounds of energy. The reason is basic. You must stay within chamber pressure limits. So to put more powder in the shell one must use lighter bullets. Naturally lighter bullets are shorter and accuracy can suffer. If someone made a hollow base 45 auto bullet you could set some energy records and still be long enough to spin down the barrel nice. (Wild guess) But you could also make aluminum bullets that would look nice on paper calculations.

Handgun Cartridge Power Chart - Condensed Version

I chose the M&P 340 357 cal. Changed the grips to Ebony wood Secret Service smooth with no checkering. I carry it every day. Was using a Desantis Nemesis pocket holster but my second one got shiny slick and formed to the shape of the pistol and it wouldn't come out of the holster when drawn from the pocket. I recently purchased a Galco horse hide pocket holster and am happy with the way it snags in the pocket.
FYI, I tried to find a 357 J frame for my son and gave up after 3 months.
Hang in there. I love mine! Very light, accurate and turns heads at the rangewhen I am punishing myself with 357 rounds instead of 38 reloads. :-)

One last thought, our concealed carry instructor said to choose the largest caliber that you will actually carry. That is why I chose the M&P 340 357cal.

Great thread. I can barely hit a barn with my friend's Ruger LCP .380.

Hi all I appreciate all the info and it helped me alot in making my decsion I went with a S&W 340 MP with Crimson Trace. I placed it on layaway so be a bit longer before I pick it up. Thanks again.

I carry an M&P 340 every day, all day in my front pocket and have no problems with doing so. I also carry a Shield some days in .9mm on the belt or a 1911. Can't beat a S&W J frame with good loads in it. I carry Gold Dot SB 135 gr. in .38 in mine.

Tom

I have to agree with Marshall Tom. M&P 340 (I like the CT, so SKU is ) 150971. 13.3 oz empty; XS Sights® 24/7 Tritium Night; no internal lock; 6.31" overall length. Great CCW.

I change out between my S&W Airweight 632 "Centennial" revolver and my Kel-Tec P11. They both shoot well and will "stop the action" when called upon to do so.

Scott

What more can i say?

I rarely pocket carry, don't like to, but when I do it's my Kahr PM9...

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JimC

I've pocket carried various J-frames all my life, and see no reason to change. If it ain't broke ... Centennials, Bodyguards, Airweights, Airlites, the possibilities are many. Add in a couple speed strips and you've got 15-17 rounds ready to go.

If I was to carry a lightweight semi, I'd go with the Springfield XDs .45 loaded with 185s. I don't get impressed by semi-autos much, but this pistol is a winner for CCW. 230s are a bit much recoil-wise, but 185 HPs are perfect.

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I'm with the banned ...

Agree, danged good guns.

For the record, the Kel-Tec P32 has been my on-duty back-up, and frequent off-duty, since 2004. I qualify with it annually on the same course used for service weapons. Winchester 60gr Silvertip isn't a 38 or 9mm, but in an Uncle Mike's pocket holster, it vanishes in the front pocket of my jeans. The spare magazine goes in my watch pocket. I'd recommend that the OP not rule out the Kel-Tec P32 and P3AT. They sure as heck carry better than any revolver.

With that said, my preferred pocket carry revolver is a Colt Agent with factory wood grips and a Tyler T-grip. Loaded with 125gr Nyclad "Chief" loads, it's controllable for rapid follow-up shots. No reason to beat it up with +P - in a 2" barrel, the extra power is largely wasted. The wood grips make an enormous difference in concealability, as they don't even extend below the Agent's already-short frame. With a Pachmayr grip, my qual score may go up from a 275 to a 290, but the pants pocket concealment would be totally lost.

Since this IS the S&W forum, I'd also recommend the M642 revolver. Forget anything made out of space-age unobtanium. Remember, this is a 2" barrel gun. You need to be able to practice and train with what you will actually load it with. 38+P will hurt with an open-backstrap concealment grip, but will still be manageable. If 38+P hurts, imagine what a 125gr or 158gr MAGNUM will do in one of those Sc guns. Sure, you could add a set of Pachmayr's to dampen the recoil. But you won't be carrying it in the pocket of your jeans without the bulge being obvious. And, will the magnum load even expand out of the snub? At least all-lead .38's and the Nyclad will deform at low velocities.

Moral of my story? Stick with an aluminum-alloy .38 with the smallest grips you can use in a pocket revolver.

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10,13,15,64,66,351,640,681

The obvious answer is in your original post. Get another S&W Shield 9mm. I like the Ruger LCR 38 Spl and a Taurus 85 38 Spl for snubby revolvers.

Recently added to my 4 J's:
Nickel 49, 640 (38), Electroless Nickel 442 & 340PD...
351C

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I'd highly recommend the Sig Sauer P938. It holds more rounds than a j-frame, is chambered in 9mm, is smaller than a j-frame, has very good usable sights (night sights) from the factory, has a good short trigger pull, is very slim, and holds 7 or 8 rounds.

My little 938 has been 100% reliable through about 500 rounds so far, has much less kick than my 642 with 38+p ammo, is much easier to shoot well, and follow up shots are much faster. It also pockets a lot easier. You should check em out. They're very well made too, much better than the typical shield or nano.

To the OP:

Carry Proud, Carry Safe, Have Fun!

You will enjoy the benefits of a Lightweight J Frame!

Just Saying...

Kahr P380. Sizzling little high quality .380. It's always with me when I go out.

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John

Any semi-auto you can get it your jacket pocket can be shot from your jacket pocket. It's the follow-up shot that's a bitch! LOL

My Seecamp back-up gun weighs 12 ounces. Double action only semi-auto........3/4 " wide, 4 " long. May not be enough power for a primary defense gun, however, very concealable and light weight.

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Ret. LE, FA Instr, S&W Armorer

Have you ever seen a Kel Tec P-32. They are about 6 1/2 oz empty and 9 oz loaded.

.32 ACP is no hand cannon, but I sure wouldn't want to be shot with it, and James Bond managed to take down a lot of bad guys with it (some even while skiing).

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My sgntr is mor thn 30 chrctrs

Smallest? Lightest? Most easily concealed?

Well, there is always this..... Just be sure to buy the fmj ammo for maximum pentatration!

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