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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #51  
Old 06-03-2013, 08:10 AM
Model520Fan Model520Fan is offline
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Originally Posted by RichCapeCod View Post
My claim to fame, as it is, is the change from ferrous metal to stainless and the making of J-frame handguns with full width front sights (which is how they've been made ever since I required it on the NYPD handguns). Hated those 1/10" wide sights on earlier J-frames!
When I got a chance to speak with Roy Jinks at Potomac Arms in Alexandria (1997?), he mentioned that that first batch of revolvers with 1/8" sights almost got out of S&W with the channel in the top strap unchanged from the original 1/10" setup. That probably wouldn't have gone over very well at Rodman's Neck, along with all the other problems.
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  #52  
Old 06-03-2013, 01:07 PM
RichCapeCod RichCapeCod is offline
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Originally Posted by Old Corp View Post
Always thought the 'no-choice' DAO revolvers for NY was sorta strange.

My first 10 years in LE were with revolvers (Colt Trooper MKIII and M66), but my department trusted us to understand that DA was the primary method of use, but the guns were capable of SA.
Old Corp, I think it's "sorta strange" myself. The NYPD was (and, I suspect, still is) very nervous over the possibility of one of it's officers inadvertently discharging their handgun. Thus the rather over-heavy NYPD trigger on issue Glock pistols.

The dilemma NYPD management faced is that the dept long knew that one of the primary reasons for the accidental/unintended discharge was the cocked handgun. The single-action mode of fire simply had no place in a handgun that was to be general issue to the average officer.

The term used for most officers in regard their firearms handling skills by those in the Firearms and Tactics Section was that the officers were "occasional firearms users." This wasn't a pejorative, simply the recognition of a fact. Thus the goal to reduce at least this one variable in how officers get themselves into trouble with their sidearms (their antics and misdeeds in this regard could fill a book!).

Anyway, if you want to know more about the philosophy of the Firearms and Tactics Section I wrote quite a bit about it in my most recent book, Practical Handgun Training:




Hope this isn't a violation of forum rules. At any rate you can view some of the book without cost on that site.

As an aside, one of the basic goals of the Firearms and Tactics Section was to ensure that whatever firearm, holster, tactic or other piece of equipment we recommended met two criteria; it had to be Practical and Job (or task) Related. I must say I found that fundamental guideline most sound.

Rich

Last edited by RichCapeCod; 04-26-2015 at 02:54 PM.
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  #53  
Old 06-03-2013, 01:29 PM
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Hi Rich, I have a related side question for you if you dont mind?

On the cover of your new book you have a trophy gun. I have seen a few of these over the years, most have been Colt Det spls. However I can never find out what they were trophies for.

I know there were quite a few different ones.

This seems to be a bit of lost area

Thanks!
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Old 06-03-2013, 03:38 PM
RichCapeCod RichCapeCod is offline
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Hi. That was a handgun awarded to the best shot of the Police Academy class. When I was going through the academy it was called the Masback Trophy. At one time the trophy gun was called the "Hiram Bloomingdale Police Trophy." That one was established in 1917 according to the engraving on the revolver shown below. This particular Colt was won in 1925 by an officer (Arthur Lempke) who retired as a lieutenant in the early 1950s.

Why is mine a S&W. Well, I had already bought a Colt Det Spec from the Equipment Section so, when asked, I figured I'd get the S&W!

I have no doubt this trophy had other names, I simply don't know what they were. I'm sure the NYPD museum folks would know.

I'd like to clarify my NYPD dates. I came "on the job" Oct 24, 1969. I was immediately assigned as a deep undercover officer and didn't surface until prior to the academy class I attended from (if my memory is correct) November 1971 to around May or so of 1972. I fired for the trophy gun in September 1972, thus the date on the handgun.

Also, sometime after I won the handgun the now politically correct dept stopped awarding handguns to academy class top shooters. Truly sad in my opinion.

Rich

PS

For the recorded a Police Firearms Instructor I worked with, Frank Shelie (sp?) had a trophy gun that was a Colt Det Spec.

*

This trophy gun I own appears never to have been fired. Note there is no ring around the cylinder.



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Old 06-03-2013, 03:53 PM
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Another forum guy and I were debating about buying a trophy gun a year or two ago. This one was the Harry Hirschfeld Trophy It was presented to Prob Ptrlman John V Allesio on 9/29/60.

He did carry this gun quite a bit.

We also saw that the commissioner has a Colt DS Bloomingdale with a 1967 date (I think)

RM Vivas was trying to buy these guns years ago.

Seems like a neat little area to collect!

Thanks!
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  #56  
Old 11-15-2014, 08:48 PM
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Here is a NYPD Masback Trophy Award gun. I haven't done any research on Patrolman Komar as of yet, but I hope I will find some good information when I do.


Masback Trophy Award (NYPD) won by Prob. Ptl. John Komar January 22, 1951 pre-model 32 2" .38 S&W











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  #57  
Old 04-10-2015, 10:23 AM
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Talking Original M-60

I own an m-60 before it became the NY-1 - I was an Investigator w/ NY DAOS before I went into the NYPD in 1990 - This was my off duty and I carried a Ruger speed-6 3" on patrol. i still carry the M-60 today...
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  #58  
Old 06-30-2020, 12:48 AM
RM Vivas RM Vivas is offline
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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
I don't think any .357 was NYPD authorized? I understand Big Boku should know the answer for certain.
For very brief time NYCPD was in talks with Ruger about making their .44 mag carbine in .357 magnum. The talks went nowhere.

The .357 magnum was never authorized mainly because of a publicity fear of the word magnum. More likely there was a concern about recruiots handling the recoil. Training up a few thousand people every year with just .38's was a chore; throw a magnum round in there and it'd be worse.

Best,
RM Vivas
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  #59  
Old 06-30-2020, 01:05 AM
RM Vivas RM Vivas is offline
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Originally Posted by wheelgun28 View Post
Hi Rich, I have a related side question for you if you dont mind?

On the cover of your new book you have a trophy gun. I have seen a few of these over the years, most have been Colt Det spls. However I can never find out what they were trophies for.

I know there were quite a few different ones.

This seems to be a bit of lost area

Thanks!
Edwin R. Masback Trophy
Hiram C. Bloomingdale Trophy
George R. Kelrick Trophy
Harold M. Gall Trophy
Frank Keeler Trophy
Harry Hershfield Trophy
Mayors Trophy
Police Commissioners Trophy
Chief Inspectors Trophy
Citizens Trophy
Spring 3100 Trophy

The criteria for each trophy changed over the years so what would earn you a Mayors Trophy in 1940 would have earned you a Masback Trophy in 1970 or something like that.

-----G E N E R A L L Y ---- the criteria were as follows:
Edwin R. Masback Trophy - Best marksmanship
Hiram C. Bloomingdale Trophy- Best OVERALL average
George R. Kelrick Trophy - Most deserving female in her class
Frank Keeler Trophy - Highest academic average
Harold M. Gall Trophy - Highest average in Physical education (2 PE awards)
Harry Hershfield Trophy - Highest average in Physical education(2 PE awards)
Mayors Trophy - Best police work whilst still in training (good collar award)
Police Commissioners Trophy - 2nd highest academic average
Chief Inspectors Trophy - 3rd highest academic average
Citizens Trophy - best slow, timed and rapid fire shot. Awarded once. Likely replaced by/ re-named Masback Trophy
Spring 3100 Trophy - criteria uncertain. Awarded once.

This is just a quick list. THE CRITERIA CHANGED OVER THE YEARS!!!!!

I'm working on a more detailed description.

Like what you see? HELP ME OUT! You see something on a Trophy Gun or a Trophy Gun winner, send it to me!

Also, the dinosaurs may get a kick out of this, i'm trying to document how the winners of the more cerebral awards went on (not surprisingly) to become the best and brightest in the department, getting raised up faster than others. One fellow, Herb Schilling (1955 Bloomingdale) came on the job in 1955 and made LT in 1960; FIVE YEARS!

Best,
RM Vivas

Last edited by RM Vivas; 06-30-2020 at 01:48 AM.
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