Are there any truly effective lower recoil defensive loads for a small, average to weak, woman with a possible wrist problem to use with the S&W Model 442? Include some +P loads if there are any that can fall into a lower recoil category. Thanks

+P by definition will not fall in the light-load category. Off-the-shelf wadcutters would likely be your best bet, but if you are a reloader....you can customize a load for her. That's what I do for my small-handed woman. As a last resort.....CCI snake-loads would likely afford the lightest recoil in commercial ammo. I know....they may not be killers, but I would hate to get a face-full of them.

148 grain target wadcutter would do just fine for a recoil sensitive person.

Trust me on this one, I'm speaking as a former NYPD homicide detective.

Rich

Hornady makes some pink hollow points with low recoil and a 90-gr. bullet. That would probably be easy to shoot in a 442.

With my neuropathy, I have compromised wrist and hand strength. 110 grain, low recoil Federal Hydra-shok works for me in my 442.

Getting a small, aluminum framed gun for my 100 pound girlfriend was a mistake. She is unwilling to use it. He loves my 2 and 3 inch barreled K-framed guns, so I am planning to get one of these for her.

Based on my experience, you would be much better off getting a K frame gun for a woman and use 38 Special ammo in it (non +P). The K frame triggers are so much better than the J frames anyway.

x2 on the wadcutter ammo. Soft lead and a full-caliber nose is a good combination, even at target velocities.

Pink loads.....I learn something everyday. Good to know the ammo manufacturers have come to realize that the "she" in the family may have different needs.

Lets face it....the lady wants the itty-bitty pistol to carry in her purse that doesn't make a lot of noise, will hit what they are thinking about hitting no matter where it's pointed and doesn't kick.

My wife totes a 317 22LR in her purse that weighs nothing-at-all and I have worked the trigger to make it manageable. She also shoots the light-load 38-specail very well, but even that is too big of a gun for her to hide amongst her purse-goodies. It's the light slug that makes a large difference. Those pink loads have a 90-grain bullet. I load the wife 108-grain cast LSWC over 2.5 grains of Bullseye and she does just fine with those in a J-Frame 38. Sure....she can shoot about anything in a K or L Frame....but it doesn't hide very well.

Federal 110 grain Personal Defense Low Recoil Hydra-Shok
Winchester 110 grain Silvertip
Hornady 110 grain Critical Defense

All of these are low recoil, standard pressure rounds. Be sure to use a large, rubber grip. That will help too.

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Centennial Every Day

Any time I see this type of discussion the two questions that need answering, and which are seldom addressed, are; what would be a Practical and Task Related solution to this problem?

The OP stated that they had a .38 Special handgun and their significant other found the recoil too much for their comfort as the person was small and might have a problem with their wrist. Recoil sensitivity is not an uncommon problem with occasional firearms users, which this female shooter clearly is. So, the goal, in my view, is to come up with a Practical and Task (or Job) Related solution to the problem.

Since the OP asked specifically about loads for the S&W 442 I suggested the target wadcutter round as the likely best option. Why? Well, the configuration of a full wadcutter will be the most effective projectile shape available for a small barrel handgun. The Brits put this shape to good use in their .455 and .476 Manstopper rounds of the late 19th Century.

If I were starting from scratch with this issue (recoil sensitive shooter wanting a concealable handgun) I’d likely recommend they explore either the S&W 317 handgun or the Ruger LCR in .22 lr caliber. A step up might be the S&W 351C or Ruger LCR in .22 Magnum caliber.

Just a few of my thoughts on the matter.

Rich

Just bought a 642 tonight and bought a couple of boxes of these for the mrs. to use in it.

This should do the trick, too:

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Another practice load if you can find them is any cowboy loads.
They are below +P speeds and made for low recoil in the type
of shooting they were made for. Just a little more velocity
than the "Standard" target loads.
Some times 148gr loads can be hard to find............
and the Hornady, Winchester 110 silvertip and 125 Federal "Nyclad" are the three of the better SD loads made for the snub nose with minimum recoil, in mind.

This is exactly what I'm looking for (for my sister) and can't find any in stock at any price, very frustrating!!! Where did you find yours?

You cannot make something into something it is not. The 38 Special is pretty good for defense with some loads, but terrible with others. For practice, use 148 grain wadcutters. Familiarize and shoot a few heavier loads to develop the confidence needed to hit the target in the right place at 7 yards or so, and carry the proper load. Do 95% of shooting practice with the wadcutter target load.

Thanks for the excellent responses; all were very helpful.

Still another option would be trading the Airweight for an all-steel J-frame. The additional few ounces of weight would broaden your choice of ammo, and the gun would still be small enough for purse carry (though I think a carry gun should be carried on the body).

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Oh well, what the hell.

I agree. A load that is quite snappy in my 642 is like shooting a 22 in my 686. If she's carrying a bunch of girl stuff in her purse already a few extra ounces of firearm is probably not going to make much difference in the weight of the purse but will make a huge difference in felt recoil.
If you already have the airweight J frame which I suspect you do, then practicing with the lightest possible WC target loads is the answer to get her used to them with a very occasional cyl full of defense loads. 148gr WC at modest velocity are far superior to 22 anything for defense but you still need to hit what you are aiming at. Good Luck.

I've equipped my wife's 442 with Remington target wadcutters. Very little recoil, and they chop a very efficient hole in either paper or flesh. She practices with them easily, so she's good to go on the street, if need be.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

This one is supposed to be effective enough. Not sure if I'd call anything out of the 642 low recoil.

At my LGS. I can check and see how many boxes they had left and get you the contact info tomorrow if you want. They could probably ship them.

They were 24.99 for a box of 25.

That would be fantastic....none to be found locally and not on the net either.

You can get more reduction in perceived recoil from cushy grips, or a steel frame, or (better) both. Keep the bullet energy up where it will do what you want it to do at the target, and probably keep the point of impact closer to the point of aim, too.

Well I stopped buy tonight and the shelf was empty and they checked in the back and there was only one box left so I bought it.

The guy that waited on me said they would probably be getting more in next week.

I am in there a lot so I will check and if and when any shows up I will post it here.

I'm not sold on light high-speed JHP's being able to penetrate, violently expand, AND hold together. I would be inclined to suggest the wadcutter loads. Quite likely just as effective, and cheaper (like half the price) so you can practice a lot with the carry ammo.

Another vote for wadcutters

My wife (64) uses these. They print to POA, are accurate, and very low recoil..........
• Federal Premium Ammunition 125gr Nyclad® HP

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David
CW3 USA (Ret) 1968-1990

That's a great load but, unfortunately, I haven't seen any on a retail shelf in almost two years.

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Centennial Every Day

The old federal nyclads and winchester silvertips are about the only "named" rounds I'd want. Both are simple old-school soft lead bullets with a thin coating.

Take a look at Buffalo Bore's 150 grain wadcutter. Standard pressure load, easy on the gun and the shooter. But it is a hard cast wadcutter at higher velocity than the target loads so will perform better on moving targets.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

B.B. says standard pressure so I agree about easy on the gun, but the bullet weight and higher-than-standard velocity don't indicate to me that the recoil would be easy on the shooter. I do agree it should be a pretty effective load- in fact, one of my self-defense handloads emulates it. They come kinda dear at over a buck a round though.

The BB 158g LSWCHP in standard pressure is one of the loads I carry in my lightweight 38. It is fully equal to the Remington +P load with the same bullet, both in (my) perceived recoil and over the chrono. I'll believe 'em about the pressure, but I still wouldn't shoot a ton of 'em in my older (pre +P) steel snubby even if I could afford 'em in quantity.

I don't know how BB gets +P performance with standard pressures, but they're well known enough that if it weren't true I assume somebody would have called 'em on it. I can only conclude that the place is run by wizards.

The biggest thing to remember is when the time comes that she needs to use her gun, she will not even notice the noise or the recoil. Use the best load she can shoot most accurately for the 5 rounds the gun holds. A 442 is definitely not the gun you want to shoot 50 through every week at the range.

I'm sorry but maybe that's just not the right gun for her. Any .38 is going to give her a tough time let alone a +P. Might I suggest a Model 649? All steel, a 10 oz heavier with minimal recoil. This is a soft shooter. Another thought is see if you can find a used 432 .32 H&R Magnum. I have one and I'll tell you that I wouldn't want to get shot with that magnum load. Remember, the gun she wants to shoot will be the one she becomes proficient on and that is critical!

Thanks for keeping an eye out for the ammo but I found some. Cabelas didn't have it last week, but today on their website the Critical Defense .38 Special 90 gr was in stock so I grabbed some (only let me buy 5 boxes but my sister ordered 5 boxes also). So looks like I'm covered for now. My sister and I have three J frames to test this out in so I'm hoping she likes it. I shot Buffalo Bore ammo today 158 GR standard pressure and it was OK but I know my sister would not have liked it. I also bough two boxes of the 110 gr Horrnady HydraShok Low Recoil ammo for her to try.

Now to decide what to get for practice sessions......seems like wadcutters are recommended a lot for lower recoil?

Hi Str8: I hope your lady likes the 642 and ammo. It's a good combination and very shootable. I have a 686 4" that I love to shoot and 38's are very tame in it; even 357s are good for 50 rounds or so but 38s are an all day affair . . . unless it's too cold, too hot, too crowed, too anything and then it's off to spa (lol).

I've been looking for that just perfect Lady Smith in a 3" barrel, so maybe that's where I land. But as a woman, I'm not sure what I'd do if I were to CCW (I do have a shooting coach and we are about to start tactical training - great fun!). A small 38 3" barrel maybe, a Sig P220 Equinox Carry (I have it's big sister and do love it), 1911 Cobra Carry (ouch on the price but my goodness what a sexy piece - held one last week) . . . I'd go crazy figuring this one out but oh what a blast that would be.

Take good care and all the best to your Lady,

Rachel

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Rachel
Grande Torina