Today I was going to buy a 686 SSR new at my local gun range, I looked very closely at the revolver for possible problems, everything seem to be fine until I looked at the barrel alignment where it mounted on the frame, looking at it from the top, I noticed that there was a slightly bigger gap on the right hand side than the left, very very minor gap. I did what I would not normally do but looked down the sight from front to rear, then I could really see that the barrel was canted, very slightly, more more noticeable looking down the barrel, feeling this was a manufacture flaw. I then looked at 2 other guns, a 6" 686 and a 6" 686+, the 686+ was 12 oclock and the other was canted, the then looked at a 629PC .44 mag and is was perfect 12 o'clock. I dismissed the purchase of the SSR and went home.

I went to the safe and pulled out all my revolvers, and examined them the same way, this is what I found: Colt King Cobra, Model 19(c1980), Model 66(c1987), and 625PC(2013) perfect 12 o'clock. My 686+(2013), 627PRO(2011), were canted at the 1159 and 30 secs position. Does this mean SW are just banging out guns by a machine now? My Performance Center gun is fine. But the others just don't match up.

I guess I should have looked closer at the 686 and 627...

If they are under warranty, send 'em back and get them fixed -- is my recommendation.

All mine are top dead center except for the M60 I bought recently -- and it's back at S&W right now getting fixed (hopefully).

Based on the number of reported issues on this forum, it sure seems like S&W isn't paying close attention to what goes out the door.

I suspect that we are somewhat more likely to hear about problems than good work. After all, it isn't news when a gun works properly.

That said, I suspect lots of folks buy a gun and don't shoot it at all or enough to discover problems, or aren't informed enough to realize how it should work and assume fte's, failures to feed, parts falling off, lousy fitting parts etc are normal.

Lots of unsophisticated folks, gun wise, are buying guns now, thanks in part to more readily available cc permits.

It's great that the number of gun owners is increasing and that more folks are exercising their second amendment rights.

Demand has increased, particularly for handguns. Unfortunately, I think that quality has been sacrificed to meet that demand.

I suspect manufacturers including S&W have figured the costs and have calculated that only a small percent of defective products will ever be returned and that its cheaper to fix those few than make them all better from the get go.

Just my guess, of course.

Can someone post pictures of these types of issues you would look for on a new revolver?

I'm not really a revolver person but own several hand guns and rifles (SA XDM, G27, M&P 22, M&P 15T ect).

My dad ordered a 627 4" Pro Series a couple months back and would like to inspect it at the lGS before accepting it (once it comes in) but we don't really know what to look for.

Any advise or pics?

Another customer who S&W risked losing; the customer walked out the door but he'll probably buy S&W again. And I get it: "Who you gonna call? Gun Busters?" Hard for me to understand that quality the 1st time, every time isn't the priority @ S&W. If it was by now we would have seen demonstrable improvements.

I love S&W products when they are right, but it amazes that they seem to think they are really saving costs by eating poor product quality cost. I'd love to see that financial analysis.

I treat a gun purchase from the perspective that it probably has something amiss, more so if the gun is new. So far I'm totally satisfied with my 617, 686+ and 629 Classic, but I went over each piece very carefully before buying and asked the LGS tech to do the same thing. I had one I switched due to mid-pull build up of trigger pressure that slacked off and then built up again just before the break. Not a huge issue but compared side x side there was a clear winner between the two 629 Classics I was looking at. The tech was completely honest, "You want this one ma'am; the other one just isn't up to a good S&W trigger pull for a 629."

Of course, I keep ogling S&W revolvers and will probably buy a Lady Smith and a 686+ 3." I really love them!!!

My advice: Don't get swept away until you own it, and before you own be as persnickety as all get out - politely of course.

R

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Rachel
Grande Torina

I looked at a brand new M-64 - I think it was- the other day and the finish was very rough . It looked as if the polishing was only half way done with swirl marks going in all directions.I asked if it had spent the last 3 months in someone`s tackle box, cause it sure looked like it.
QC needs to be overhauled asap.

Just google S&W canted barrel pics you will find what your looking for.

Funny. I've been happily married for 42 yrs and it is still not unusual for her to do or say something I don't understand. I think any male who says he completely understands women is lying.

On to the original subject, are we hearing from a small minority who obsessively inspect prospective purchases or is QA really worse? Don't know, lean toward the former.

I suspect if you inspected a new Ferrari closely enough, you'd be able to find something to criticize.

Happy 4th to forum readers. Don

No Don, I am not a very fussy customer and I tend to forgive a lot, but the QC lately is really bad and Smith needs to address it.
Back in the day I would never have thought to look for a canted barrel or swirrlley finish, since that stuff would have never left the factory, but it does all too often now.
Jack

I commented on this quality business on another post recently but I still wonder why so many people are willing to give S&W a pass. Is it just brand loyalty or have we gotten to where we just don't expect excellence anymore?

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

What is also frustrating is when someone sends the gun back to S&W service and they in turn send it back and say "it's within specs". I'll guarantee mine isn't dead center but it's not canted enough to get me to send it back only to tell me it's within specs and here's a couple of extra scratches free of charge. I've put enough rounds through it where I'm satisfied with the sites and accuracy. When does canting go from aesthetics to the functioning of the gun (sites off, bullet shaving etc)? If it really is affecting the gun, send it back for sure. It seems that 21st century S&W revolvers are not made like they used to be. You'd think S&W would get tired of all the guns coming back to be fixed. The 'new normal' isn't that great.

I will add that several months ago I read a comparison of the S&W 686 and Ruger GP100 4" in one of the gun mags at Walmart.

The thing that stuck out to me was that they wrote that the S&W had a canted barrel, and even with the windage maxed out, it was still a few inches off.

Thats not good.

Hi Dave:

Wondered the same thing often. It's surely a brand loyalty matter, established what - over a century ago and then Colt went out of the revolver bus. Really, Ruger makes fine guns but it's clear the market prefers S&W. It'll take some time but S&W will eventually feel the market shift, if for no other reason than the younger buyers aren't so brand loyal (or maybe even shooting loyal).

I just wish S&W could see that. They have a huge impact on the gun owner's world and the those that might become shooters as I did. 50 or 100 years from now, shooting will be different, if it even exists on the magnitude of scale it does today. When people analyze this, the manufactures are gonna own a ton of responsibility for the shifts that occur - let's hope they can have pride in their contribution then.

I really love a great shooting S&W revolver, really, really do. That others have (and maybe you and me will to) had such a bunch of quality issues concerns me, as someday it will impact me in terms of availability, advancement and access to S&W guns and that's bad for everyone including S&W.

R

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Rachel
Grande Torina

Bought a brand new 625 JM a couple of months ago, took it to the range the next day and noticed two things. First, I just "felt", more than saw, that the front sight was off, leaning to the left. Second, the web between my thumb and index finger was getting beat up. I am addressing the grip problem, currently looking at alternative grips that will fit my hand better. The off-center front sight gnawed at me though. I took it back to the LGS and had several people, including the owner, look at it. They all said they couldn't see what I was describing which made me doubt myself a little. Long story short, I had them return it to S&W, had it back in a week, with the barrel realigned and now it is perfect. Now..... If I am looking at a revolver to purchase, I carefully check the alignment of the barrel. It was no biggie to get fixed though.

To see how the Performance Center installs revolver barrels, go to 2:35 on this video:

Smith & Wesson Performance Center Part 3 - YouTube

To see how the factory installs revolver barrels, go to 3:35 in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQ3HDLkB5l8

This explains why Performance Center Guns are lined up at 12 o'clock, I guess production line guys on Regular and Professional Series just slap them together "within specs" and can't take 2 seconds out and look down the barrel...really? I guess they must have cut the Quality Control position, and hired minimum wage employees to turn torque wrenches.

I've been wanting a 627 PC and the only one I've found had a canted barrel, so PC guns have it too.

So if find any new smith with a straight barrel, buy it, it may be a rare item that comes out 12 o'clock with just luck of the draw... phft!