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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 09-02-2013, 10:14 PM
ALVMASON ALVMASON is offline
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MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT!  
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Default MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT!

I never thought I would find one, let alone find someone who would part with it. I am sure I will never find a cooler gun than this. Here is a photo of my 14-6 four inch that is brand new in the box and unfired.
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:07 AM
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Congrats!

Fine revolvers. I stumbled upon mine at a local gunshow a few years back. I never expected to see one in the flesh.

I traded a NIB 3 inch 64-3 for it. The seller must have really loved 3 inch K-frames. He seemed thrilled. I KNOW I was.

Enjoy that fine full lug 4 inch 14-6 Roper. Let us know how it shoots for you. You are going to shoot it, aren't you? Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:20 AM
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Pardon my ignorance...What is "roper"?


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Old 09-03-2013, 10:31 AM
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I asked Jim Rae, the fellow who made these guns, who told me "...approximately 131 made with the 4 inch barrel." The 4 inch full lug barrel 14-6's were sent to Roper supply in Mississippi around 1996-7 IIRC.

Hopefully member CALREB will see this thread. What he has forgotten about these fine revolvers I will never even know. Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-03-2013, 10:48 AM
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I must confess my ignorance too. I opened the thread expecting to see a beautiful pair of checkered wood grips by Walter Roper. Imagine my disappointment at seeing those "grips by Goodyear!"

So if I understand this correctly, some guy named Roper had a special order made up for 131 of these Model 14s with 4" full underlug barrel about 16-17 years ago, is that right? It is a right nice looking gun (except for the Goodyears) and with a set of the smooth combat grips Smith was selling in those days should hold and shoot very nicely. Who knows, with 129 more of them out there, maybe one will fall into my hands as well... stranger things have happened!

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:10 AM
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One day I only hope to stumble on one. Nice score!
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:28 AM
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Default Great find.....!

Here's the Roper flyer made at the time they released these to the general public:

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Old 09-03-2013, 11:38 AM
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I must confess my ignorance too. I opened the thread expecting to see a beautiful pair of checkered wood grips by Walter Roper. Imagine my disappointment at seeing those "grips by Goodyear!"


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Old 09-03-2013, 12:12 PM
ALVMASON ALVMASON is offline
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MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT! MODEL 14-6 FOUR INCH ROPER GUN FOUND IT!  
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Thanks everyone! This is better than any Christmas present I have ever had. I can't stop picking it up an looking at it. I bought it to shoot it but right now I am struggling with the thought of shooting this gun. 18DAI, CALREB knows I have this gun and will probably be chiming in sometime soon. CALREB was one of the first people I texted when I found it.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:28 PM
ALVMASON ALVMASON is offline
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SmithNut,
What is the name of the pair of grips you have in the first photo of your roper gun, the one with the finger grooves? I would like to get a pair of those.
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Old 09-03-2013, 12:54 PM
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ALVMASON,
All the grips in the pictures above were made by Craig Spegel.
The last gun is wearing his K frame Targets with short extension, smooth with medallions.

Edit: for some reason I was thinking you asked about the last gun, the first one is wearing a set of grips that Craig makes every 1000 pair of grips, I was lucky enough to have him make me that pair, it is made of American black walnut wood he cuts on his property in Oregon.

Tx
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:55 PM
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Default A bit of my journey regarding this model, FWIW

Starting in 1996, when the SCS&W came out, I started searching for info on this gun.

In the first edition, this was what Rick Nahas included:

* Special 1995: Production of 4" barrel for Perry & Associates for pistol teams. Accurized from the Performance Center. Limited Production

Not much info, but a start. I talked to Rick Nahas about this at the S&WCA meeting in Portlland in 1998 and he indicated that the info came from his notes and didn't have much more than that.

Then, in 2001, the second edition of the SCS&W came out with a bit more info:

* Special 1995: Production of 4" barrel for Perry and Assoc. for LA.P.D. pistol teams. Accurized from the Performance Center. Limited Production

This was a bit more (LAPD angle), but not much. I found a company called Perry & Associates who distributed guns and was somehow involved in the Police Pistol matches, but they had no idea what this model was, said they'd never heard of it. Bummer.

So, I believe I posted some info about it on the forum and a nice gentleman was gracious enough to send me a copy of the letter below.

BINGO...!



With the magic number on this letter (the SKU), I was able to get S&W Customer Service to provide some additional information about this model, and in fact the CS rep said "Oh, you called just in time as the last shipment of 25 just went to the distributor - Roper Police Supply". I was thrilled and called Roper, talked to a nice lady named Miss Vickie who confirmed that there had been about 100 over a 5 year period and that the last were on the way. She even mailed me several flyers (the one posted above).
I called my local GS (also a member of the S&WCA at the time) so he ordered 6-8 of these, some for me, some for himself and others.
When they came in they didn't last long I can tell you.

Now, there are a handful of folks here who knew about these guns for years, a small group of tightknit folks who compete/competed in the Police Revolver matches, where these were known, but us in the collector community had to really dig to find out about them, almost too late.

The letter above is very interesting, tells the story as it were, and confirms that these handful of guns were scattered out over a period of time, so they are fairly exclusive and hard to find.

There's probably more to the story, lots of calls and discussions with other S&WCA members, but this is the result.

Oh yeah, with the info in the letter above, Rick updated the SCS&W V3, removing the Perry & Associates info (Pg 180) and added a good write up in the PC section, pg 346 "Model 14 PPC: Special 1995

That's all I can recall, the law enforcement guys who competed in the matches can tell more about these guns.
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Old 09-03-2013, 01:57 PM
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SUWEEEEEET!!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:04 PM
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SmithNut have you ever come across one of the handfull of 2.5 inch full lug 14-6's made for the off duty matches?

I'd love to see a picture of one. Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:08 PM
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Default Now....... the really intriguing piece

You'll notice in Jim Rae's letter that he says this model was one of the last square butt revolvers to be produced.... Got it, understand it, etc.
But - notice the gun in the flyer above, it's a RB and I'm still looking for one...
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:09 PM
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I am a shooter, not a collector, but given the apparent rarity of this special edition, I would have to advise the OP to not shoot it. Just my humble opinion. Seems like he could sell it for quite a bit to the right collector and have enough to get whatever he wanted to shoot with some extra.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:12 PM
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SmithNut have you ever come across one of the handfull of 2.5 inch full lug 14-6's made for the off duty matches?

I'd love to see a picture of one. Regards 18DAI
I've never held one, know of only 2 supposedly made. I did, at one time, have a pic of one of those on my cell-phone, but that was 3-4 cell phones back and lost it over time.

Cool gun..... The owner is among us and has never indicated any interest in getting rid of it.
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Old 09-03-2013, 02:20 PM
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Very very nice.

Was unaware that I could get checkered grips from him...

Hmm...
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:50 PM
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Thank you Smith nut, what a beautiful revolver. Just when I thought my revolver building days were over.

I feel a knock off coming on. A Model 15-3 with a 4" full lug bbl and Patridge sight and recessed muzzle.
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Old 09-03-2013, 08:59 PM
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SmithNut,

Thanks for the information on the grips and for more history behind the gun. I am lucky enough to know some of the people who have been shooting PPC for decades and I have seen about 6 or 7 of these guns still kicking around. However, nobody, I mean nobody would ever give me a price on one. Almost without exception, it is their favorite gun. I have a few friends who had been hunting for me too. One told me that he made an offer on one for an unheard of amount, he was turned down flat. This is my new pride and joy and will be gifted to one of my daughters and believe me, they know what it is, I think they are already tired of hearing about it and it has only been a few days. LOL
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:32 PM
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Bronco45, It is funny you say that. One of my friends also has a roper but he also had purchased just the barrel for another, I guess there were a few barrels that were floating around and not put on guns. He put it on a model 15. Neither of us ever imagined I would get my hands on one, so he ended up selling me that gun a few months back. So now I have a real Roper and a fifteen with the correct barrel. I guess I have answered my own question, I am not shooting this one, Ill shoot the 15.
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Old 09-03-2013, 09:45 PM
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I have a Model 17-6 4 inch / full lug models and have always wanted one of the Model 14-6 4 inch / full lug models to go with it. They are very scarce and command premium prices when they do show up. The guns that SmithNut shows are just gorgeous and I'll bet shoot like a house a'fire. I know I'd shoot one if I had it.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:07 PM
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ALVMASON: What a delicious dilemma. I thought I would get a 586 barrel or a 14 full lug bbl and cut it down from 6 inches to 4 and recess crown it. Install and set cylinder gap and then put a Patridge front on it. I'm assuming I would have to change the rear leaf because of the height difference. Will start project soon. In my sunset years I find I shoot a great deal of 38 Spl. I love the cartridge. I gave up PPC shooting around 1980 never knew they built such a nice 38 for PPC shooters.
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Old 09-03-2013, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
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ALVMASON: What a delicious dilemma. I thought I would get a 586 barrel or a 14 full lug bbl and cut it down from 6 inches to 4 and recess crown it. Install and set cylinder gap and then put a Patridge front on it. I'm assuming I would have to change the rear leaf because of the height difference. Will start project soon. In my sunset years I find I shoot a great deal of 38 Spl. I love the cartridge. I gave up PPC shooting around 1980 never knew they built such a nice 38 for PPC shooters.
Just a heads up as pretty sure the L frame barrel wont thread into a K frame without machine work,

Also while I totally get the whole 4" Model 14 addiction having a 4" 14-2 and 14-3 .... isnt the Model 586 a stronger design thats pretty close in look and feel but at a fraction of the cost or is there a rule that doesnt allow .357's loaded with .38 special bullets to be used in competition shooting ?
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Old 09-04-2013, 12:13 AM
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OK, so we know these are rare and were made by the PC. However, no one has posted a word on how they shoot.
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
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Rest assured, many of us have dressed ours up properly.......
Thanks, SmithNut. Now I can go into full lust mode!

Froggie
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Old 09-04-2013, 09:40 AM
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Another reason why I love this forum. Learn something new almost every time you log in. I also was expecting to see some nice grips but was pleasantly surprised to see another gun to put on my mental list to look for....
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:06 AM
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Since someone mentioned the option of shooting a 586, there's a about as rare a version of the 586-4 chambered for the 38 Special. These were over runs from a special order for the Brazilian National Police. There were 6", 4" and 2.5" versions and less that 200 of each barrel length went out to distributors back in the 1990s. I have both a 6" and a 4":



However I much prefer the 4" for shooting:



I treat mine as modern day 38/44s and shoot my 38/44 hand loads in them exclusively. Not to say they wouldn't handle the 148g wadcutters or 158g Ball of the PPC game just fine.

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Old 09-04-2013, 03:14 PM
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I've shot my Roper 4 inch 14-6 twice. Last time was a few years ago. Very nice shooter as you might imagine.

I only shot jacketed ammunition in it as I was warned that the barrel leads up fast and accuracy is then degraded.

IIRC it made a sub 2 inch ragged hole in a 3 inch Shoot-N-Cee target at 15 yards using WWB 38's.

The trigger is unlike any of my other S&W revolvers. VERY smooth but slightly heavy in DA. IIRC it has a PC "duty action" on it. SA was light short and crisp. Superb revolver. Regards 18DAI
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Old 09-04-2013, 07:08 PM
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Nice Guns Dave T!
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:03 PM
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At the risk of sounding stupid, which I'm too old to much care any longer when it comes to learning something that really interests me, what makes you certain one or more round butt 14-6 4" full lugs exist?

While I'm at it, all these fine guns should not be called Ropers just because of the last run of them. Although they may possibly have been sent to Roper, they were not for sale to the general public until the last run of 25 or am I wrong?

According to Jim Rae, there were no round butts. What were the serial number ranges of those that went to LAPD, and those that went to the winners of the next year's match? How many were sent each time they were sent? When were they sent. I ask because owning one could be owning a presented pistol as opposed to owning a purchased pistol.

A picture wearing rubber extended grips can play tricks on the eyes.

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Old 09-04-2013, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Just a heads up as pretty sure the L frame barrel wont thread into a K frame without machine work,

Also while I totally get the whole 4" Model 14 addiction having a 4" 14-2 and 14-3 .... isnt the Model 586 a stronger design thats pretty close in look and feel but at a fraction of the cost or is there a rule that doesnt allow .357's loaded with .38 special bullets to be used in competition shooting ?
You can use a .357 loaded with .38 Specials if one wants to do so. A lot of competitors won't though, because they feel that the slight bullet jump for a .38 Spl. in a .357 Mag chamber is not conducive to accuracy.
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:27 PM
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BUD JR,
I don't want to speak for SmithNut but if you look at the flyer he posted, it sure appears that the model is a RB. I don't know if he has other information other than that or not. Just curious, do you know Jim Rae or are you inferring your information based on the letter?
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:14 PM
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I based my statement on the letter. I think looking for a gun based on a pic with rubber grips extending below the end of the butt has no validity when the master gunsmith and all documentation state they were square butts. Mind you, I can see a definitive treasure chest full of gold if one were to find one.

I am still MORE curious as to the prefixes and or serial numbers if there were just six units per year made and shipped, what they ended up actually being used for, etcetera. I just don't think a RB exists from the factory judging from that letter. If I knew the man and he were alive and well, guess I'd be on the phone with him presently if all was well with him.....which I hope is.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:16 PM
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By the way, Alvmason: think that was a needle in a haystack you came across and found it from a mighty kind sort of a person.
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Old 09-05-2013, 12:20 AM
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Bud Jr.,

Without a doubt! The man I traded with knew what he had and knew how rare it was but he also knew that I had been searching and that I could truly appreciate what it was. As a matter a fact, he worked for Smith and received the gun from Jim Rae. He is a true gentleman and I cant express how impressed i was after meeting with him. Really an interesting, and generous person, and that goes for his wife as well.
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:26 PM
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You found a super desirable gun. Thats the Holy Grail of 4" model 14's. Nice catch and that's great that someone let it go to be appreciated by someone else. Larry
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALVMASON View Post
Bud Jr.,

Without a doubt! The man I traded with knew what he had and knew how rare it was but he also knew that I had been searching and that I could truly appreciate what it was. As a matter a fact, he worked for Smith and received the gun from Jim Rae. He is a true gentleman and I cant express how impressed i was after meeting with him. Really an interesting, and generous person, and that goes for his wife as well.

I think it would be neat if you could get him to type up the story on how he got the gun since it has a connection with the developer. Any documentation on the gun would be a plus. I would also get a factory letter as well
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Old 09-05-2013, 01:35 PM
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That is a good point 410Bore, I really had not thought about it. I have just been so happy about getting one I did not think it could get better. However, i think it would be awesome to do both. Thanks for the idea.
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Old 09-05-2013, 03:10 PM
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Picayune, MS? I've lived here(Central MS) all my life and was not aware... LOL...
Maybe I will find one!
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Old 09-05-2013, 05:37 PM
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It's a shame that they are so rare. They would make a fantastic gun for IDPA's SSR division.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
Just a heads up as pretty sure the L frame barrel wont thread into a K frame without machine work,

Also while I totally get the whole 4" Model 14 addiction having a 4" 14-2 and 14-3 .... isnt the Model 586 a stronger design thats pretty close in look and feel but at a fraction of the cost or is there a rule that doesnt allow .357's loaded with .38 special bullets to be used in competition shooting ?
I have a Model 13 that Bill Davis mounted a 581 barrel on. The K-Frame makes the gun a hair more nimble for action shooting, and the smaller cylinder helps with the speed reloads. A 4" full-lug model 14 would be even better because of the theoretical improved accuracy of a .38-only cylinder.
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Old 09-05-2013, 09:59 PM
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The Jim Rae letter is in reference to a specific gun and he lists the serial number at the top. The statement regarding the square butt configuration is in reference to this particular gun being one of the last square butt guns to leave the factory. I don't think he is stating all 4" Model 14-6 Roper guns are square butt.

In fact half of the standard 14-6 production was square butt and half was round butt spanning the three year production run from 1994-1997. The square butt frames were phased out during 1995-1996. That's when these first few Roper guns were made.

The Roper sales flyer is dated March 10, 2000, which is four days prior to the date of Jim Rae's letter, and certainly is confusing since it shows round butt grips in the picture but lists square butt grips under the features. However that's four or five years after the square butt frames were phased out so it seems reasonable to think in 2000 they would have been using round butt frames. The square butt grips mentioned could have been round to square butt conversion grips.....but that's not what the picture shows.

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Old 09-05-2013, 10:39 PM
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Great gun and great story! Thanks for sharing!
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:59 AM
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This has to be the best forum that exist! Every time I log in I get educated and find something else I would like to own, but I can't go there for several reasons. I do indeed enjoy looking at all the rare smiths. Keep it coming.
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Old 09-07-2013, 04:31 PM
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HI FOLKS,
yes that 14-6 in a 4" is a great find, wish i could find one. just think, there are some model 14-2s that are also 4", that are like a model 10, but have adjustable sights, which are also hard to find. thanks for sharing. sw dan

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Old 11-13-2018, 05:15 PM
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Somebody asked this . Yep they shoot pretty good,
and I know several others shooting the same model gun who have the same trophy, or a few of them. If it goes outside the x ring at 25 yards its your fault. WW 158 swc or P Delta.
These 2 consecutive ser #----- 59/60
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Old 11-14-2018, 02:32 PM
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Was lucky to find 2 of em with the original boxes and broke the bank to buy them. I shoot the one, it’s very accurate. The previous owner shot it also. The second one is in great shape, the box has wear on it. May be for sale in the future.

Bought a 16-4 and a 17-6 with the 4” full lug barrels to get a 3 Caliber set which is hard to obtain. Had them on display at the NE Ohio Bunch a couple times, there was actually 3 of the 4” full lug 14’s at the one Bunch. Larry

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Old 11-14-2018, 06:41 PM
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Jebus, could you post a photo of the boxes, mine came in plain brown cardboard if I remember right. I always wondered if they were all that way. Bob
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Old 04-11-2019, 11:14 PM
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Shoot me a pm if your thinking about selling.


Charles
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:17 PM
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I would like to see a photo of the boxes people got them in from the distributor. The ones I have came from the factory and came in plain cardboard boxes. Thanks
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