I have seen many threads about a bobbed hammer on SW revolvers, I have several and cannot imagine not being able to cock the hammer and shoot single action, I understand that there is no chance of catching the hammer on clothing but if carried right or pulled from the bedstand. It never happened to me and I never even considered it. Will someone educate me on this issue

I could see it on a j frame carried in a front pocket,but none of mine are bobbed.

It's one way of preventing the gun from being thumb cocked in a self defense situation and was mandated by some police departments. It pretty much turns the gun into DAO, although the hammer can be started back and then cocked by thumb. I shoot DA revolvers DA so it would bother me not at all.

There are bobbed hammers that retain the SA notch.
A true DAO revolver cannot be "cocked" at all. Its DA or nothing.
Mostly police agencies who were concerned about a revolver being cocked in the heat of the moment with the later possibility of a negligent discharge when de-cocking is attempted.
The NY-1 is a great example of this. Mine is NYPD surplus that was returned to S&W for the combat revolver job.
As semi-autos replaced revolvers, many departments also specified a very heavy trigger pull in their striker-fired guns.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

It makes sense that a revolver used for self-defense might be DAO for all of the reasons GyMac cited. This factory bobbed Model 64 still has the single-action sear although I've never been compelled to shoot it that way...

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"Shall not be infringed"

There is a current thread under the 1980-present section entitled "My new Model 68-2 LAPD" that explains the origin of the DAO police revolver.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I like em trimmed......DAO is fun to shoot

Attached Images

	S&W NY-1 right.jpg (59.2 KB, 100 views)
	S&W 64-3 left.jpg (94.4 KB, 102 views)
	S&W 64-4 Right.jpg (156.1 KB, 95 views)

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Although I'd imagine the trigger was already smooth from service when you bought it, how's the factory combat revolver job?

I'm better double action than I am single action.

Shoot a lot of any firing mode and you become good at (familiar with) that mode.

For me at least, Single action feels like there's a "hard bump" to get over to get the hammer moving. Once over the bump, the trigger moves at a lot different speed and rate of smoothness. And for me that contributes to jerk.

Dbl action, the trigger just moves from front to rear smoothly.


Sgt Lumpy

In my opinion the only advantage is that they are cheaper to buy. What is funny to me is to see someone pay to have their revolver changed to DAO with the spur bobbed off the hammer then when trying to sell it expect to recoup the costs of their conversion.

My original point is that when you bob the hammer you only eliminate a choice, you can still shoot DA only if you want, but I can cock one of my revolvers and find a rest to steady myself and hit targets much farther away than I can hit DA. Just my opnion.

You don't remove a choice if you leave the single action hammer notch intact when you bob the hammer. You can still cock for single action very easily and safely if you start the hammer back by pulling the trigger slightly, catch the top of the hammer with your thumb, release the trigger, and continue the cocking to completion.

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Pisgah

Don't quite understand your question, however your comment "I have several and cannot imagine not being able to cock the hammer and shoot single action" concerns me with respect to a defense gun.
My opinion only, shooting single action with a DA revolver should be relegated to sighting in, bullseye competition and possibly hunting (long range shots). Other than that, a DA revolver should be shot DA, it's quicker and is not less accurate, assuming you learn to shoot DA consistently and practice that way. I do not see any reason to shoot single action with a defense gun, cocking a hammer and holding the gun on a "suspect" is asking for trouble, aside from what is seen on TV police and detective drama shows.

On exposed hammer on a defense gun can be a liability from a clothing standpoint, the only good use frankly is to use it to "power through" some kind of action issue, i.e., the gun is gritty, not shooting smoothly due to dirt clogging up the action, high primer, etc.

While it's a bit more challenging to shoot DA accurately, it's a good skill to master, good DA shooters can shoot SA with little challenge, but if you only shoot SA, then if you really need to pull a gun with little time to cock the action for that first shot, you may not have the time to prevail. Pull the gun, pull the trigger, put the bullet where it belongs and stay alive. Shooting DA is the answer, and for that you don't really need an exposed hammer.

For what it's worth, just one guy's opinion.

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.............SmithNut

Back in the late 1970s I started shooting in Police Revolver competition matches, better known as just PPC. All the top PPC shooters, like the Governor's 20 in the state or the President's 20 nationally, were DAO guys. Not that they used revolvers with bobbed hammers, they just shot strictly DA even at the 50 yard line. As it was explained to me, using a consistent trigger pull throughout the 150 rounds of the standard course was advantageous and produced better results over all.

I became convinced and almost never shoot SA with any DA revolver I own. I've only converted one gun to DAO but would be willing to do so with more of them it it weren't cost prohibitive.


Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

This one had a problem where the action was "short stroking" to coin a term. I sent it in to have that corrected and decided to add on the combat job.

Charge hole chamfering aside, the factory action job is essentially equivalent to the ones I have done following Jerry Miculek's process. They even used Wolff springs.

The outside was really battered, so they blasted it. I asked them to re-stamp the SN on the frame side but it didn't happen.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Gentlemen , I am fortunate to be able to have a number of revolvers, While most have their hammers intact, all of my everyday concealed carry guns are either Enclosed {or shrouded} or have their hammers "bobbed". It is the only way I will have a "carry" revolver and even with field guns or heavier holster guns, I only shoot DA. In times of stress, I want nothing slowing me down or having the risk of getting hung up drawing from a pocket or concealed under a piece of clothing. In my own case, "hammerless" makes the most sense for the use of the revolvers that I depend on. All my best, Joe.

Bill Jordan bobbed the hammers of his working revolvers, both primary and back-up or off-duty, but retained the ability to cock the revolver when needed for a long shot. This is not the fashion now.

LE agencies started the trend when officers noticed that suspects were no longer reacting to them pulling their weapons, so they cocked them for additional effect. A little too much stress, a finger on a trigger and the weapon pointed at the hapless suspect and BANG - dead suspect, lawsuit and everyone else got punished by making their weapons harder to shoot well, which means more bystanders hit, more lawsuits, etc., instead of just firing the idiot and sending out a memo. God forbid we get rid of idiots from government service - someone might sue and allege an untrue and unrelated reason for discharge for the firing, etc.

In any event, there are people who have learned the DA stroke enough to still have that surprise break and some shooters can shoot distance shots DA as good as or better than SA firing. In my experience that is NOT the norm.

In addition, some lawsuits have claimed a weapon was cocked and the firing was inadvertent (negligent) in order to kick in the homeowner's coverage, which would not cover for an intentional act, but which might for a non-intentional act. Perhaps I am not understanding the issue clearly, but it seems to me that elimination of the SA firing capability takes away your chance of getting your insurance to kick in with both the cost of your defense (legal fees and related expenses) and your damages when the jury pulls the handle on the legal slot machine of damages. Of course, I guess cocking the revolver might also cause difficulty in evaluation by the police and prosecutor in that someone may claim some sort of pre-meditation or whatever - I don't know. But, in any event, there are articles cautioning against single action for defense use. Those have caused more or less the trend among non police private citizens to gravitate to DAO systems - that and the desire people have to get one of what the cops carry - even if that is not well thought out. For example - Glock with 5 or 6 pound pull - great idea. Glock with NYPD 11 pound pull - not well thought out.

I've castrated every wheel gun I carry and use a lot. You all know how touchy a S&W is when it is cocked. You can almost blow on the trigger and set it off. Not a chance I want to take in a serious situation. Like mentioned in previous comments if you are sighting the weapon in etc. you can still cock it if need be. With the exception of target shooting if you're in to that a lot I see no point in keeping the hammer spur on a DA revolver especially on a carry gun. But hey! that's my view point. Ya All do what ever trips your trigger guys!!

I understand all your concerns about cocking the hammer and pointing at a suspect you are holding. My point is that if you are well trained you simply do not cock the hammer except in appropriate situations, such as a longer 120 feet or so with some brace available for support. I personally can shoot DA or SA, since my age is finally getting to me I have a bit of a shake so my scores are not as good a in the past. I also find that I can cock and fire a single shot and the gun is in DA for further shots. Respectifully that is just my opnion and experience. Besides I just got a Berreta M9 and with a crimson trace I think it is one of the most versitile handguns.

Just my opnion no disrespect to anyone elses, Semper Fr

George

I shoot my DA revolvers DA, so the functionality of a bobbed hammer appeals to me, but I prefer the looks of a hammer with a spur. Maybe I would change my mind if I carried one concealed.

I own five Chief Specials of various models, the four which serve as carry guns all have bobbed hammers. I like IWB carry under an untucked t-shirt, and dehorning the hammer lessens the chance of snagging the gun when drawing-- in a self-defense SHTF situation you need all the advantage you can get.
Mine are not DAO, SA is still possible, but IMHO you don't generally need SA capability in a true self-defense situation. Given the typical S&W SA hair trigger, it's pretty easy to have an AD with a cocked gun if you're tensed up . Never mind that homeowners insurance business, "oops, my bad" doesn't cut it in the courtroom.

I'm kinda' like SGT LUMPY, in that I've shot double action so long, and so much, I tend to forget what that thing on the back of the hammer is for.....

LOL - I bet I have at least half a dozen DA revolvers in the safe I've never even fired single action.

Dave

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

Anyone know the advantage for a previous owner of my 64 to have it DAO but leave the hammer spur ?
For safety reason I took a Dremel cutting wheel to the spur. I didn't want a friend to try and cock the hammer back and possibly let it slip when it didn't lock back.

It may have been a duty revolver that for liability reasons was converted to DAO but the hammer spurr was left on for use with a thumb break. I know the ones I have without hammer spurs (most), the thumb breaks don't do much to secure the pistol in the holster.

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Support your Police, & NRA

In its last authorized revolver iteration the Chicago PD required that the S&W or Ruger be a .357(but only .38 specials were permitted) DAO but required a hammer spur for securing the weapon in the holster. It worked OK, and there are still a few of the old SA/DA revolvers being carried by old guys who either did not trust semi autos, or did not want to spend the money. They still work just fine. The required load was the 158 gr SWC HP +P and it made an impressive number of one shot stops. I still have my M10, and it ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

For those of us who carried revolvers daily as a duty weapon, we were trained to shoot DA only....the first agency I worked for mandated that all their duty revolvers have the single action capability removed ( this was due to court litigation )....I carried a revolver from 73-88, and instructed revolvers as an LE instructor from 78-95....single action firing was NEVER a component in our instruction....all of my personal carry revolvers are despurred.....I competed in PPC for years and as DAve T pointed out, we all shot DA exclusively out to 50 yds....I also competed in IPSC for years and DA was the only mode that was used....same way in pin shoots....the only time I have ever thumb cocked a revolver was when I shot ISHMA with a single action Ruger or TC, or when hunting, where I was shooting at 50 plus yards.
In my world, the primary reason for removing the spur was to eliminate the possibility of it getting snagged during a presentation, to prevent it from "chewing up" clothing ( like suit coat linings), or gouging holes in the upholstery....I have trained for decades to shoot DA, and I know that for me, cocking the hammer during a defensive scenario is simply never going to happen - so the hammer spur is superfulous.......from an agency standpoint, the reason to remove the SA mode was to prevent the possibility of inadvertent discharges under duress ( this was driven by actual court litigation)....an attorney is going to be hard pressed to prove that the officer thumb cocked the revolver ( which violated agency training protocols and policies) when it cannot be cocked to single action.

I always told my students to never, ever, not-even-for-fun, fire their weapon single action. Then they could tell an investigating officer that they knew absolutely that they had not cocked the gun.

The students that I used to call "125 pound housewives" followed the rules dutifully. The cowboys, well that's another matter. One used to sneak his .41 Magnum into his holster when he thought no one was watching. Another emptied his revolver several times when he envisioned that multiple assailants were attacking him from an open field. I used to love those phone calls at 2 AM.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

I have never been comfortable with a holster lacking a thumb snap. Never had one fail even when I was near upside down.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

I do not want the option of SA fire with a carry gun for SD. Period. That's why I carry an enclosed-hammer J-frame. My reasons have mostly been stated already on this thread, but I simply don't see much chance I'll need to take a long SA shot in self defense. If it's more than about 25 feet I'm likely to need an even better lawyer.

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Oh well, what the hell.

When I started as a LEO in the late 80's, I was issued a M10HB. I never fired it SA except for shooting at fifty yards for qualification in the academy. The state mandated it for the required course to become certified. The academy firearms instructor told us to never shoot our service revolvers SA from then on. There was no desire to have officers cock their revolvers out of habit and shoot a suspect when not justified...There were no bobbed hammers or DAO revolvers around back then...The revolvers I carry routinely for serious social purposes are enclosed hammer designs or have bobbed hammers. If one cannot shoot well DA, THAT means you need more training. Shooting DA is a skill like any other and takes no talent, just training and practice. When I go to a public range, of the few people I see shooting a revolver, they all are shooting SA...And, usually very badly...

I myself just like the look of the hammer.I never shoot SA,but if for some reason I needed to,I have the option.Who knows,maybe it's all the cowboy and indian movies I watched as a kid,but I think wheel guns need a hammer.

Clint Smith recently covered this topic in his American Handgunner column, and received significant criticism for advocating NOT shooting SA with revolvers. He is a proponent of DA shooting exclusively.

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I'm with the banned ...