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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 09-30-2013, 05:58 PM
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Default Opinions wanted: 66 snub vs 686 snub

Hey All,
I have a dilemma that I hope some of you might help me with.
I often place low bids on guns on Gunbroker, in hopes that I will get lucky and get a gun I desire for a low-ish price.

I recently scored a 686-6 (snub) that is 98% condition.
It already has The Plug, and is in pristine condition.

I also scored a 66-4 snub , that is also in primo condition.

One of these guns will serve as my primary concealed carry gun.

I need to choose between these two revolvers, and sell off the one that I do not want.

The obvious answer is the 66 for concealed carry, due to it's smaller size.

BUT....I truly do not mind the added girth and weight of the 686 for IWB carry....

Would the 686 be a "better" weapon for the long haul, based on it's beefier forcing cone, availability of parts, pinned front sight, and "shootability"?

I love the looks of a 66 much better, and have carried one before.....but I hate to shoot the 66 too much, because they are not making them anymore....while the 686 screams for abuse!

If you HAD to keep only one..........what say you? (and why)
Thanks! (and keep your eyes peeled for one of them to be for sale!)
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:12 PM
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I had a 2.5" 686 but traded it for a 4" Highway Patrolman. The 686 just never felt right, didn't balance right, in my hand. It always felt really back-heavy to me as if it needed a 3" barrel at minimum to feel the same, and point the same, way the snub K-frames I have do. Having said that, I'd obviously opt for the 66 snub which feels much better to me.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:26 PM
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Try both out and decide which one to keep. I have a 686 2 1/2" with factory combats and a 19 snub also, and both are great shooters for me. Could not let either one go. Very hard decision to make since you have both in your possession.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:33 PM
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Dump the 686,For a CCW gun even a "plugged" lock bothers me.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:38 PM
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I find the 686 much less desirable than the 66.

Aesthetics mostly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Old 09-30-2013, 06:58 PM
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Default I cary my J frame.

Both great guns. Had a 686. Have a 340PD-CT now. The thing is that the 686 got left in the safe a lot. The J-frame is always with me unless I am going to an airport or a court room, etc. Just one opinion. Do what works for you.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:03 PM
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I am sure if you go for the 686 someone here will relieve you of the 66. If you shoot hot stuff a lot the choice is obvious. Carry the 686 for a month & see if you want to stick with it.
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Old 09-30-2013, 07:31 PM
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Years ago I tried carrying a friends' 2 1/2" Python for a couple of days. Was not fun, the difference in bulk was obvious under my coat and to my back. The 686 is basically the same size as the Python. I would vote for keeping the M66.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:02 PM
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I had a 686-4 and 66-4 2.5". Kept the 66 and sold the 686 because for that barrel length, the 66 felt better.
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Old 09-30-2013, 08:29 PM
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Man, you all are convincing me to ditch the 686......

Have to shoot them both first, but.....I'm easily swayed, and it seems like the 686 is not favored by many (in the snub version)....keep the thoughts coming though!
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:14 PM
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I think you have already made up your mind
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:35 PM
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Dump the 66 for a 629.
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:37 PM
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I have both as well and intend to keep them both! But when it comes to carry I have to admit I don't even own a holster for the 686.

For me when it comes to carry revolvers you have to consider the weight as the day drags on (guns get heavier!) vs. ballistics. It is MHO that if you were to chart these variables you would find they intersect at the model 19/66. It offers superior knock down power in a more comfortable package. I think most of us can respect the power of a 158g .357 and it's stopping ability...more than enough for any conceivable SD scenario...as well as the sleek design of a 66.

Now the 66 doesn't get you into J frame territory for ease of carry but it also doesn't batter you like a J frame using full 158g loads. The 686 will absorb recoil a bit better but at a cost of added bulk.

I own a few L frames and love 'em...but I have twice as many K frames and they are my favorite. I have said before in other posts but I will say again...my son-in-law is a Ruger guy through and through...but his carry revolver is a snubbie 66.

You could keep them both or turn that snubbie 686 into a 4" or 6" and have what the L frames do best! (I won't be parting with my 4" 586 in this lifetime).

Of course this is all my ramblings and doesn't mean much...you could carry that 686 and be well armed with a fine revolver! It's always nice to have options...God bless America!

And since no post is complete without a pic please allow me...
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Old 09-30-2013, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
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I think you have already made up your mind
No Sir, I truly haven't.....but I did feel that more people would chime in with some advantages of the 686....
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:09 PM
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I don't have a 66 but do have a 19-3 2 1/2" and a 686-4 2 1/2". My suggestion is keep them both and get a 3" 13-3. It is one of my favorites and smooth as glass. But to your original question the 66 would be easier to carry. But with the right holster and the right belt I think either could work. Just try A 3" 13 as well. Now you have a reason to get one. Never too many.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:35 PM
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Buy a 642 to go with the 66 and the 686.

Carry the 642.

Use the 66 as a car/truck gun.

Keep the 686 as a home defense/night stand gun.

End of problem.

See how fast I can spend your money.

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Old 09-30-2013, 10:37 PM
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686 All day...sorry, I lust after one and I feel they're the best revolvers out there.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
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I don't have a 66 but do have a 19-3 2 1/2" and a 686-4 2 1/2". My suggestion is keep them both and get a 3" 13-3. It is one of my favorites and smooth as glass. But to your original question the 66 would be easier to carry. But with the right holster and the right belt I think either could work. Just try A 3" 13 as well. Now you have a reason to get one. Never too many.
Your 19 of course has the same qualities as the 66...I have one as well but can't bring myself to slide that beautiful blue into a holster!

The suggestion of a 13 is excellent as well as the 65. Now we are nearing perfection! This one may say "Lady" but it's all .357 magnum!
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:48 PM
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KEEP THEM BOTH and carry both for a while and see which you like best. I have carried the 2 1/2" 66 and liked it a lot. I never have shot the lite 125gn bullets in .38 or .357 because I like the 158gn rounds. I apply that same selection to my 686 4" and the load works very well.
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Old 09-30-2013, 10:51 PM
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Agree with most, M66, easyer to CC. Only "L" frame I have is a 696 3" and just don't CC it like I do a "K" frame M10 3" or M66 2.5".
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:01 PM
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Keep the M66 and sell the M686. I recently traded into a M66-3 two and a half inch. It's replacing my G23 as my carry gun. I also carry a model 60 or Model 649 (fan of the "New York reload"). The M66 carries much more comfortably than the Glock and another loaded revolver beats the best speed loader! YMMV

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Old 09-30-2013, 11:04 PM
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I have both and shoot the 686 much better than the 66. Run exact same ammo through both and I can tell that the 686 handles better for me. No doubt the 66 would carry lighter. For me while shooting off hand the 686 out shoots my 66, thats the reason it wears Ahrends retros. From a rest I don't see much difference.



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Old 09-30-2013, 11:16 PM
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Have you ever carried a heavy gun all day long? After 8 or 10 hours of carrying that 686 you will wonder why you sold the 66. I have a snubby 686 and a 2-1/2" 19 and the 19 wins hands down. If I'm going to carry the weight of a 686 I may as well strap on a Commander size 1911 and get 3 more rounds in a flatter package.
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Old 09-30-2013, 11:51 PM
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Have you ever carried a heavy gun all day long? After 8 or 10 hours of carrying that 686 you will wonder why you sold the 66. I have a snubby 686 and a 2-1/2" 19 and the 19 wins hands down. If I'm going to carry the weight of a 686 I may as well strap on a Commander size 1911 and get 3 more rounds in a flatter package.
Everyday, 6+ days a week, 8-12 hrs a day, sometimes longer I tried a Kimber pro TLE/RL and as far as a commander size 1911 compared to a 686, the Kimber was a boat anchor! Been there done that.

686 2.5" works for me, may not work for you.

I have a 19 2.5" and it's just to pretty to carry

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Old 10-01-2013, 12:06 AM
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I have a 19 2.5" and it's just to pretty to carry

That is a pretty one. Mine has some use and has holster wear so a bit more won't do it any harm. I agree with an all steel Commander size 1911 being heavy. When I carry a 1911 it's an alloy frame in a VM2 and it carries pretty well. I still prefer the snubby 19.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:41 AM
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A BIG consideration is how much, and what are you planning to shoot in them.
If you are going to shoot 38 Special ammunition 99% of the time the 66 will last forever. On the other hand if you are planning on a steady diet of HOT 357 Magnum ammo, and lots of it. The 686 is the easy choice.

I had a 2-1/2" 66 and I did not warm up to it for some reason. I ended up trading it for my Barbecue Revolver an as new 2 Inch 15-5.

My most carried revolver would be my 66-2 with 3" barrel.

I conceal carry my: 2" 15-5, 3" 66-2, 2-3/4" 315NG, 2-3/4" 310NG, and 3" 625.
I can tell the difference in weight between my 66, and the 625. I suspect the 686 snub is enough heavier that you will notice the extra few ounces. The big consideration is Tollerance. I carry all the above revolvers excluding the 625 and never notice I am wearing them. I do notice the extra weight of the N Frame. The 686 may be within your tollerance level, and carry fine.
The holster is another BIG consideration. I carry all my revolvers in Pancake holsters.

Tough decision.

If I managed to come up with a 686-4 SIX Shooter, with a 3" Barrel, I would be carrying it daily. That is at the top of my Christmas List.

Bob
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Old 10-01-2013, 01:32 AM
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I own a 686-6 and a 66-1 and find them both desirable. I can't favor one over the other. I'm sure whichever one you decide to keep, you'll be able to sell off the other quickly.

You did not mention exact barrel length, but I find the 686 to be perfect in 3 inch. I had looked at and tried a 2.5 inch but never warmed up to it, and the 6 inch always felt too barrel heavy. The L frame does have a higher bore axis than the K frame. When I first bought it I was so use to K frame's that it took me a little while to finally get it to shoot tight groups.

As for the model 66, it feels so well balanced and natural in your hand. Based on the near perfect model 19 it's hard to find anything to complain about. I guess my only gripe is I don't carry or shoot mine as much because being it's no longer in production, I'd like to keep it in as best shape for as long as I can.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:45 AM
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Buy a 642 to go with the 66 and the 686.

Carry the 642.

Use the 66 as a car/truck gun.

Keep the 686 as a home defense/night stand gun.

End of problem.

See how fast I can spend your money.

Well Sir...
I have owned more than one J-frame, and while they are convenient to carry....I love to train with and frequently shoot my carry gun...and the j-frame just ain't no fun!

I am fine with weight and bulk, as I am just a "night time carrier"....my day job is a teacher, so I cannot carry at work.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:50 AM
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Have you ever carried a heavy gun all day long? After 8 or 10 hours of carrying that 686 you will wonder why you sold the 66. I have a snubby 686 and a 2-1/2" 19 and the 19 wins hands down. If I'm going to carry the weight of a 686 I may as well strap on a Commander size 1911 and get 3 more rounds in a flatter package.
Yes Sir,
I am ex-airborne infantry, and carried 60+ pounds of gear on my body in Iraq summers while under great duress from the enemy! A little ol' stainless revolver is not a problem, but I am wondering about the durability/shootability of the 66 vs 686.

Excellent advice and opinions from all you guys....
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:26 AM
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I always laugh when I hear people complain "have you ever carried a ____ all day long?" or "you'll appreciate a polymer _____ after you carry it for _____ hours". I am an auto guy personally and I hear it all the time when it comes to talking about carrying steel framed autos. Apparently it is a topic for discussion here as well. I will save my opinion about that here.

I own and carry a 686 snubbie. LOVE IT. I carry it in a Lobo Gunleather holster. I never have an issue with the weight. Heck, I even carry it in a pair of shorts. What a great revolver. Big enough to mean business but not obtrusive enough to be problematic on the hip.

It really is all about what you use to carry it. A good holster is everything. I also own a 4 inch 686, so that might be why I'm partial to the 686. I also own a 681 and a 586, so I guess I am a little biased. Carry the 686.
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Old 10-01-2013, 06:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wheelyfun66 View Post
Yes Sir,
I am ex-airborne infantry, and carried 60+ pounds of gear on my body in Iraq summers while under great duress from the enemy! A little ol' stainless revolver is not a problem, but I am wondering about the durability/shootability of the 66 vs 686.

Excellent advice and opinions from all you guys....
Never had a snub version of a K frame, but I do have a 2.5" 586. I love it and I can shoot it accurately. With that said, it resides as my nightstand piece. I've only tried a couple holsters but neither worked out for me. You may find one that does. The the others, try both out and keep which ever clicks with you.
I think both pieces will hold up just fine, unless you shoot a ton of hot hand loads. If that's the case, I'd give my nod to the 686. If you are looking for something small and rugged, I recommend selling both pieces and get a Ruger SP-101. (I know, blaspheme on a S&W forum. I love my Smiths. I have two J frames, two K frames, two L frames and a M&P 9mm, but the Ruger might just fit the bill).

Good luck and thank you for your service.
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Old 10-01-2013, 12:37 PM
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Never had a snub version of a K frame, but I do have a 2.5" 586. I love it and I can shoot it accurately. With that said, it resides as my nightstand piece. I've only tried a couple holsters but neither worked out for me. You may find one that does. The the others, try both out and keep which ever clicks with you.
I think both pieces will hold up just fine, unless you shoot a ton of hot hand loads. If that's the case, I'd give my nod to the 686. If you are looking for something small and rugged, I recommend selling both pieces and get a Ruger SP-101. (I know, blaspheme on a S&W forum. I love my Smiths. I have two J frames, two K frames, two L frames and a M&P 9mm, but the Ruger might just fit the bill).

Good luck and thank you for your service.
The SP101 is a terrific revolver and I like 'em...but you do lose a round to the 66 or 686. For CC that is something to think about. If it was 15 down to 12 maybe not so much but when you are in revolver territory going from 6 to 5 that single round is a consideration. Just sayin'...

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Old 10-01-2013, 03:14 PM
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With a 6" or longer barrel I would take an L or N frame over the K any day...but for 4 or less inches the K just feels "right" to me. We have a 6" inch 686 and a 4" 66. Would love to have a snubby 66.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:27 PM
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I have both in 2 1/2 inch and except for the extra round in my 686 can't say there is enough difference in the two to talk about. I carry both in sturdy pancake holsters and don't feel they're too heavy either.
I'd suggest keeping both but if you can't I'd go with the 686 by a little bit. Try both and decide.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:38 PM
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Wheelyfun66,
Your decision is as hard as deciding which good looking lady would you like to kiss first. The smoking hot blond or the to die for redhead.... There is no wrong answer. God man I can only wish I had your problems.
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Old 10-01-2013, 03:43 PM
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Well, "wheely", you did get your share of opinions. No, having been the proud possessor of a snub-nosed 629, let me put in a plug here because someone else did - UGH!!!!

It's very clunky, definitely not easy to conceal, it's kind of like a smallish utility pickup truck. Fun to drive, and certainly utilitarian, but you're not real proud of it. I sold mine, it was a 1980s Lew Horton, I got a lot of money for it, I don't miss it.

So, on to better guns.

I have a 686+ 2.5" that I adore. It's a great shooter, has the best trigger of any gun I own (gunsmith did it), and it's a joy except if you want to conceal it. Okay, the gun is a little fatter than a normal 686, admittedly, but not that much, and it's just a chunk when it comes to concealment. But it can be done and I have the gear to get that done. BUT!....

I also have a 2.5" Model 19 - and that's the gun I really like for concealment purposes. I don't stoke either with full house .357 Magnum loads - if I did I'd favor the 686+. With high quality, self-defense loads in .38 Special, the Model 19 is the winner. So, in your case, the snubbie 66 is the winner and I want it if you don't!

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Old 10-01-2013, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg View Post
I find the 686 much less desirable than the 66.

Aesthetics mostly.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Couldn't agree more!! The 66/19 in snub form is one fine looking gun in my opinion. I just have never cared much for "snub nosed" guns with the full lug.
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Old 10-01-2013, 05:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ben1 View Post
Never too many.
I am not sure about that. I own guns for one reason, personal defense. When the squishy brown stuff hits the rotary air acceleration device, I want to know exactly what I am going to use to defend me and my family. For that reason, I keep the selection of guns I use at a minimum, no fumbling to adjust to different grips, different sizes, different ammo. I can respond quickly and decisively. This is just me, YMMV.

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Have you ever carried a heavy gun all day long? After 8 or 10 hours of carrying that 686 you will wonder why you sold the 66.
I have carried a 4" K-frame or a 1911 for 12 hours. Was wishing for a J-frame the whole day.

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Buy a 642 to go with the 66 and the 686.

Carry the 642.
This is where I have landed. The J-Magnum frame is close enough to the K-frame in size that they both handle about the same. The 642 is great to carry, the K-frames are available at home. The L-frame would serve about the same (only one is available at each "station" in the house so no confusing decisions to make).
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:36 PM
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Well.....
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!

I guess that I have solved my dilemma......

The part of the equation that I did not mention was my Glock 26.
I had planned on selling it to help finance the revolver purchases. BUT, I went shooting yesterday, and the Glock reminded me of why the subcompact Glock is such a great carry gun....

So, I am going with the 686.
Why? Because the Glock will get the most carry work, and the 686 will pull nightstand duty and occasional carry.

I like the 686 for it's beefier forcing cone and full underlug, especially if I have a choice to carry the Glock most of the time and shoot some "fun" loads through the 686.

So, a full range report to follow on the 686-6 w/The Plug installed.

Thanks again!

Last edited by wheelyfun66; 10-02-2013 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal44 View Post
Buy a 642 to go with the 66 and the 686.

Carry the 642.

Use the 66 as a car/truck gun.

Keep the 686 as a home defense/night stand gun.

End of problem.

See how fast I can spend your money.

I'm on this page except replace the 642 with a 640-1. I have the 686 and 66. That weight gets old soon. I carry a 640 with one speed loader. If I need more. I shoulda brought a rifle.
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Old 10-02-2013, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelyfun66 View Post
Well.....
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!

I guess that I have solved my dilemma......

The part of the equation that I did not mention was my Glock 26.
I had planned on selling it to help finance the revolver purchases. BUT, I went shooting yesterday, and the Glock reminded me of why the subcompact Glock is such a great carry gun....

So, I am going with the 686.
Why? Because the Glock will get the most carry work, and the 686 will pull nightstand duty and occasional carry.

I like the 686 for it's beefier forcing cone and full underlug, especially if I have a choice to carry the Glock most of the time and shoot some "fun" loads through the 686.

So, a full range report to follow on the 686-6 w/The Plug installed.

Thanks again!
I can't find fault in going with the 686 but I have to take you to task on the Glock...nice guns that do their job well...but they are making them by the g'zillions! No more 66's...

How about keep both revolvers and sell the Glock? It can be replaced on any given day.

Either way enjoy your 686!
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Old 10-03-2013, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by lhump1961 View Post
I can't find fault in going with the 686 but I have to take you to task on the Glock...nice guns that do their job well...but they are making them by the g'zillions! No more 66's...

How about keep both revolvers and sell the Glock? It can be replaced on any given day.

Either way enjoy your 686!
Well Sir....
When I can afford to add to my "collection" (and I use the term loosely), I will definitely be adding a mint 66.
But for now, I am strictly about "working" guns, and as much as I have tried to leave the Glock sickness behind.....I am incurable.

I have been fortunate to own many fine firearms....but they just don't stick around long, as I trade them for something different!

The 686 is going to earn it's keep!
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Old 10-03-2013, 11:30 PM
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HERE'S MY NO DASH 686, FITTED W/ A 7 SHOT CYLINDER BY S&W, WEARIN' SOME VINTAGE GRIPS AND A TYLER-T. I CARRY IT IN A CROSSDRAW , BY OUR PAL LEFTY @ BELL CHARTER OAK HOLSTERS. IT'S A GREAT CARRY GUN, VERY ACCURATE, PLENTY OF POWER, AND BUILT LIKE A BANK VAULT......
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:21 AM
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Default 66 vs 686

Lots of thoughtful insights here. I have both an early P&R 66 snub, and a 686-4 (2.5 bbl). I have some j- frame snubbies that leave the house with me in warmer weather. My 66 is a favorite for cooler weather, where I would be wearing a coat. (But there are times when Kimber Ultra Carry is with me on cold day, instead.) The three of these guns are ones that I have no thoughts of getting rid of. I do believe that old 66 is one of the nicest pieces of S&W craftsmanship that I had the privilege to own. But I have to say, this 686 is an impressive revolver!
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Old 10-04-2013, 12:34 AM
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I've owned both. I would keep the L-frame, 686. For the very small difference in size & weight, there's just no reason not to choose the stronger gun. But honestly, for about the same weight, I choose a 45 ACP semi-auto. It's flatter, & much easier to carry & conceal, at least for me. It doesn't hurt that it's much easier to shoot the auto well, too.

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Old 01-27-2015, 06:53 AM
70olds98 70olds98 is offline
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I have both a 66 and a 686 in 2 1/2" and I'm thinking of buying a 4" barrel for the 686 and just have a cool round butt 4" to target shoot with. It's just too big and after an hour it feels like a boat anchor on your side. I guess it would be a different story if you could open carry it. We can't in Illinois.
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Old 01-27-2015, 07:44 AM
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I'd say ditch them both and find a "K" frame in .357, it doesn't matter which one, with a 3" barrel and full-length ejector rod. Load it up with good 125gr JHP's and drive on.

I carried a 2.5" Model 19 snub as a back up gun for about a year. Every time I had to qualify with it I noticed my times were 1-2 seconds slower on the fire and reload stage of the course than they were on the same stage with my 4" barreled gun. This was due to having to swipe at least one round of brass out of the cylinder 3 out of 5 reloads. I switched to a 3" model 65 and never had that problem again. I know it doesn't sound like much, but in a gunfight 2 seconds is an eternity.

As far as the 125gr load goes....why would you add recoil when it's unnecessary? The 125gr JHP has proven itself to be at least the equal if not superior to the 158's when dealing with stopping people with far less recoil.

As far as a concealable self defense revolver goes, IMHO the 3" S&W model 13 or 65 loaded with Remington 125 JHP's is about the best combination there is. These little differences add up and could make the difference in a life or death situation. I want all the advantages I can get if that need arises and if your serious about your CCW gun you should be too.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:24 AM
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A good compromise would be the M66-8. I have had a number of K frames in 2.5 and 4 inch. The 4 inch is no more difficult to carry concealed. The M66-8 will handle the hot loads with no problem. And parts will be available.

I also had a M696 and a 4 inch M686 and both carried OK with a proper holster and belt. I used a 4 inch M581 for a duty revolver and carried it off duty too with no problem.

In your case I would keep both of them. Carry the M66 and practice with the M686. They are about the same in handling.
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:00 PM
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Back from the dead!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelyfun66 View Post
Well.....
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies!

I guess that I have solved my dilemma......

The part of the equation that I did not mention was my Glock 26.
I had planned on selling it to help finance the revolver purchases. BUT, I went shooting yesterday, and the Glock reminded me of why the subcompact Glock is such a great carry gun....

So, I am going with the 686.
Why? Because the Glock will get the most carry work, and the 686 will pull nightstand duty and occasional carry.

I like the 686 for it's beefier forcing cone and full underlug, especially if I have a choice to carry the Glock most of the time and shoot some "fun" loads through the 686.

So, a full range report to follow on the 686-6 w/The Plug installed.

Thanks again!
So, I have a question nobody has asked. Why didn't you change your screen name to wheelyfun686??
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Old 01-27-2015, 12:34 PM
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Back from the dead!!



So, I have a question nobody has asked. Why didn't you change your screen name to wheelyfun686??
Back from the dead, indeed!
Strange timing, as I am selling the 686 snub in the classifieds!

In regard to changing my screen name to wheelyfun686....
I would have changed my screen name to semiauto1911/plasticGlock26/blackpowderPete/wheelyfunRuger, etc, etc.....

I change guns more than some forum members change underwear!
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