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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 10-19-2013, 02:48 PM
Karl in NY Karl in NY is offline
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Default Need Model 60 info. (have box label info.)

Opportunity to purchase an engraved M60. Deal will be long-gone before I could possibly get a factory letter. I have consulted Supica 3rd edition and latest Blue Book, with few answers. The numbers were given over the phone, and the letters were not given phonetically, so may be slightly off.
I have not personally viewed the gun as it's a 3-hour drive...owned by a fairly close relative.

Line-by-Line:

J7149
Mod 60
2"
Stocks RD
Features Adj. Sights
serial number ALU36XX (x's represent numbers)
prod. code 102305
Special 5156
06010920
X5156

The serial number range (ALU) seems to be skipped by Supica, as does the product code.

Wondering when it was made, whether the engraving could possibly be that laser-****, and approx. value. I don't want to overpay, and don't want to cheat the man, either. It was a gift to him, he knows very little about it except it's at least 25 years old, and has never been fired. He did not have the gun in front of him, just the box, since he was calling from work, so I don't have the "dash" number yet. If I don't come up with an offer in 2 weeks, it's going to a dealer who will probably pay him 10 cents on the dollar...If it's "real" engraving, it appears that would add at least $800 to the value of the base gun...if laser-engraved, I probably don't want it.

Any help from you gurus would be appreciated.
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Old 10-19-2013, 05:20 PM
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824tsv 824tsv is offline
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Hello,
I can help you narrow down the ship date. The "SPC ORD" code numbers are the calender in a Julian date format. This Julian date is the date the revolver was completed, boxed and ready to be shipped.
You have "5156" as the SPC ORD code which stands for 1985, 156th day. June 5th, 1985 is the day it was ready to ship, not the actual shipping date.
If you look at the serial# tables in the Standard Catalog of S&W 3rd Edition, you have to sometimes read a little into the information to get an approximate shipping date with the information that is provided. ALUxxxx is the serial# prefix you provided and a check of the serial# tables show that ALA-ALC were shipped in November 1985. I would make a semi educated guess that this revolver shipped in either December 1985 or very early in January 1986. Someone else is going to have to chime in about your other questions as small frame revolvers are not my collecting specialty. Hope this info helps.
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Old 10-19-2013, 06:10 PM
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The hand and laser engraving appear very different and should be easy to distinguish; also, some members here can verify it as being factory work, if you are able to post photos.
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Old 10-19-2013, 07:09 PM
Karl in NY Karl in NY is offline
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Sorry, I have not even viewed the gun, as it's almost a 600-mile round trip to get to the relative's house. I'm also having little luck converting a Julian date of 5156 to anything relating to 1985, using several date conversion sites...I'm obviously doing something wrong. I'm also questioning if "special 5156" is even a Julian date...repeated on the label as "X5156"....

But, that's why I'm asking here, since I know little about S&W labeling, and my two primary reference books have been less than helpful.

I do hope it was produced in 1985, since that would pre-date laser engraving that apparently began in 1989...

With my medical conditions, a ~600 mile car trip is a challenge, and the owner is not computer-literate and cannot take photos, either.

Thank you-
Karl

Last edited by Karl in NY; 10-19-2013 at 09:23 PM. Reason: pismelling
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Old 10-19-2013, 10:03 PM
BJoe BJoe is offline
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Like this?

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Old 10-19-2013, 10:04 PM
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In the SCS&W 3rd edition read the note that appears after the modern revolver serial#s and before the Model 61 Escort serial#s. This explains the Julian date format on end labels. I'm viewing the Standard Catalog on Kindle so I don't have page numbers.
As I stated, shipping dates are not always easy to get and the information in the Standard Catalog is not always accurate. Sometimes guesstimating is the only way without spending the money for a historical letter.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:09 PM
Karl in NY Karl in NY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BJoe View Post
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I haven't actually viewed the label, but it looks like that comes very close, from the way it was relayed to me by telephone...different spec.order number and s/n, of course, but identical prod.code #. What does it mean?

I'm waiting for a copy of the label to arrive by snail mail...there were some hearing deficits on both sides of our conversation, and the seller can't do photos, .pdf files, or even emails!
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:16 PM
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murphydog murphydog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl in NY View Post
I'm also having little luck converting a Julian date of 5156 to anything relating to 1985, using several date conversion sites...I'm obviously doing something wrong.
The 5 is the last digit of the year; you have to know which decade. Then it's the 156th day of that year.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:40 PM
Karl in NY Karl in NY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 824tsv View Post
In the SCS&W 3rd edition read the note that appears after the modern revolver serial#s and before the Model 61 Escort serial#s. This explains the Julian date format on end labels. I'm viewing the Standard Catalog on Kindle so I don't have page numbers.
As I stated, shipping dates are not always easy to get and the information in the Standard Catalog is not always accurate. Sometimes guesstimating is the only way without spending the money for a historical letter.
I wish I had the Supica book in an electronic searchable form. The index is fairly worthless. Did finally find reference to the prod.code 102305, however, and it looks to date to 1986, a special run of 660 guns for distributor Ashland. Don't know how the engraving fits in, though, but it appears to pre-date laser engraving by about three years, a relief.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:36 PM
Karl in NY Karl in NY is offline
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I had an email reply from S&W stating the gun was shipped to Ashland Distributors, 1985, several years before laser-engraving began. It appears the gun is either Class A or Class B hand-engraved, either by an in-house employee or contractor, but prior to shipping as part of the 660 guns shipped to Ashland. No data on how many of the 660 were engraved, but all had adj. sights.

The Gun is NIB, unfired. Any suggestions of what its value would be today? I need to make an offer within the next few days. Transfer fees will run about $75 under present state and dealer policies, with about a three-week waiting period for the papers to clear the county clerk's office.

Due to travel distance, this is going to be bought sight-unseen, but from a trusted person.

thanks-
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