A few months ago i posted, whats a good gun for my Daughter.
Someone broke into her house last year,she wasn't home but they took over $5000 in electronics and $1000 in cash,and a case of beer.... I bought a Ruger revolver 10 shot. I took her to the range to shoot the 22 ruger and she did well. She since got a alarm but 2 weeks ago someone broke in through the basement door and made it up the steps and open the door in the hallway,the alarm went off and they ran away. She was home when this happen.
I asked her if she when for the gun that was in a small gun safe that i mounted for her near the bed. She said -NO. I asked why not? She said -it wasn't loaded and it takes to long to load it. She is right,if she not going to keep the gun loaded,that's not the gun for her. I need to get a gun that has only 5 or 6 shots and more powerful. Buy a moon clip, so when she needs to load it -its fast. .I would get a semi auto but she said no to that. I need a Revolver for her. ??????

6 shot .38 special K frame and a speedloader or 2. Get her some snap caps so she can practice retrieving and loading. Or, she could just keep it loaded. It's in a safe, it's not going to go off by itself. She don't need to be fumbling with ammo when she needs it to protect herself.

I gave her my SW 686 -357 just to hold for now. She said- 357 are to powerful,so i gave her 50 rounds of 38s. The problem is, she doesn't want to hurt anyone. That's why she took the 22.
I bought her bear spray and put one in the bedroom and 3 more all around the house.

I think buying the bear spray made a lot of sense. If she doesn't want to hurt someone, she's not the right person to have a gun. I'd remove the ones you gave her from the house before they are stolen or worse, used against your daughter (God forbid). Second, I'd get someone in there to add some serious security (lock, deadbolt, door reinforcement . . .) I wouldn't care if the landlord doesn't allow it - I assume she can't or won't move and she needs to protect herself. Third, I'd make sure she has a phone where all she has to do is dial 911 and the dispatcher knows exactly where she lives. I know my land line will do that. I think with a cell phone, you have to register it so they know. You don't want to have to say anything to get help there as quickly as possible.

FWIW - I tried to talk my daughter into carrying but she said the same thing - she's not prepared to kill someone. I told her I wasn't either but at some point, unfortunately, there may come a time when it's a matter of survival - at which point, I'd do what I had to do. She didn't see herself being able. At that point, all you can do is help them do what they are capable of. At least they are telling you the truth.

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18-4, 15-4

I understand that she doesn't want to hurt someone, but what if someone wants to hurt HER? With two break-ins, she may want to think seriously about this. It may not be worth using a firearm to protect your stuff, but a brazen burglar might be intent on other violence. If there are no children in the house, consider a 4" Model 10 that is available to her in seconds, not the time it takes to run the to bedroom and open a safe. If there are children, then other precautions might apply.

A complex problem with a complex answer.

First, make sure all entry points are secured and connected to the alarm. Second, she needs a secure but easily accessed (in the dark, adrenaline pumping, hands shaking and sweaty) means of getting to the gun. Third, if she is not already familiar with the laws regarding deadly force where she lives, she should be. Two break-ins with her at home during (at least) one really raises the possibility of her having to use whichever gun she has.

Lastly, and I don't mean to be critical, if she thinks she can't hurt anyone with a .22 or is not willing to use a gun when necessary and legally justified, she may need more training (like a concealed carry/qualification course) or reconsider the entire gun idea altogether.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

She needs a big dog, not a gun.

Buy her a trained dog, it'll be more use to her than a gun she's not sure she'll use.

Good advice on the securing her place. Put solid doors in, mount the deadbolts into framing, not just the jamb. Use these as well:

The Door Club Home Security Lock | Overstock.com

Was it day or night when she was home when they broke in?

PM Kanewpaddle, if I remember he's a lock/security guy, I'd bet he's got some good ideas.

I know I'm drifting off topic but my dad never carried. He never felt the need to. There were two times in his life where he seriously wished he had a gun on him right now, and one of those situations was a dog with rabies. It's not about hurting or killing someone, it's about a means of escaping with your life.

On topic, the hornady critical defense rounds in 22magnum have almost the same performance as the hornady critical defense in 32. The test gun was a s&w snub nose revolver. I want to call it the bodyguard or maybe the shield but I'm not sure what s&w calls their tiny ccw's

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson

Funny, you hit enter quicker, apparently.

Taser?

Best Self Defense Products: TASER® C2? CEW

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Watch & Pray

I agree with the dog recommendations. I have another idea though. Go on amazon or other online book place and find an old copy of "Armed and Female" by Paxton Quigley. It's probably 25 years old and one of the best books ever for a female who either, doesn't like guns, is afraid of them or has that mind set that guns are inherently dangerous.

Paxton was an anti-gunner and once worked for the Bobby Kennedy campaign. Then one of her best friends was brutally raped. While in the hospital with her friend she started thinking about how she could ever possibly not be in the situation her friend was now in. Her mind kept going back to a gun but she hated them and was afraid of them. That was then, look up her firearms credentials today. Your daughter will relate to Paxton in ways she'll never relate to gun guys like you and I. Get her the book and a dog.

If she does not want to hurt anyone she should not have a gun, unless for target shooting. That is a critical decision each one must make. No problem, but being armed is much more than having a weapon in one's possession.
Dogs, alarms, fences, and cameras perhaps.

She is not going to use a gun so the bear spray makes sense. Maybe a security camera would be helpful too. But, if she wants a little more protection, I would suggest a dog. If she doesn't like that idea, maybe you could find a cheap or used computer and have a low jack installed. I know a guy who took a computer from where he worked that had low jack. He took it to his home and put it in a box with some other stuff but didn't turn it on so no signal was sent out. He was transferred to another state a short time later and one day while he was working, his wife was emptying boxes in their new house. She come across the computer and assumed it was her husbands so she turned it on. The low jack company got the signal, notified the owner (the Navy) and a few days later Mr stickey fingers got a visit from some officers. He lost his Gov't job and was arrested. It would be nice to catch your daughters burglar and maybe get some of her stuff back. Just something to think about.

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Dennis
He's got a gun!

All of you said good things. First - Taser are illegal in her town. She has 3 dogs. When she got robed she found all 3 dogs outside. They must of had food ??? This is a new house, she got robed the 2nd week she moved in. Even tho the sensors for the alarm are for dogs, they still go off so she has to leave the sensors off. [the alarm company are working on that ]Only the windows and doors are on the alarm. She keeps the door in the basement off because she has a cat.That's how they got in last week. Maybe she not the right person for a gun. A good friend of mine [DIY] does gun reviews videos. He did a video for my daughter,showing her girls that shoot guns. It was after that she said ok with having a gun.Having the cell phone with 911 and knowing the address is very good. I will tell her that. Smart!!! It was 5 am on Sunday the 2nd time.. The first time it was weekday -dont know the time.

She needs to adjust the animal's lives to match the alarm. If the movement of the cat means she can't alarm that door, kitty needs to stay in. Period. She has to have priorities, and in this case, she needs to readjust them. All doors are locked every second except to pass through them. This is not negotiable.

Dogs: A dog as an alarm is a modest step. They have to be the right breed(s) to have the right temperament so that they at least alert to strange people, and the bigger ones have a much more imposing sound to them. A dog as protection is a more serious issue. You have to make up your mind that the dog(s) might really mess someone up. Until this set of dogs, ours were there to make noise, buy us time, and make it clear that a person had chosen to continue an unlawful act despite that racket. They were social, and pets. They might have protected us, but that was innate and not something on which to bet. (Of course, the average idiot does not want to find out if the Rottweilers and pits bite, so ...)

The difference between them and a dog that is selected/trained is the reality that the dog should bite when needed. We like big dogs. Our Belgian Shepherd is the smallest dog we have ever had (by a little); a few have been in the high 60s/low 70; most well over 100. Her "brother" is a rottXFila. He's not really big - 117 at the vet. He loves us. He hates everyone else. He is genetically incapable of tolerating strangers. His display of hatred is hard to believe until you see it. He is strong enough to pull me (6'1, 230, 52 coat, 38 pants, strong and active) off my feet while playing. He gets walked in a muzzle, and a lot of other steps have to be taken because he is a real risk to others. He is a great pal to us in the house, and an unholy pain in the gluteal complex in other settings. He also brings a feeling of safety in the house. He will kill any intruder who does not kill him first. (And yes, I am aware of the legal issues here and know my status if that happens; we'll be fine. I live in a court room and do not respond well to threats of litigation.) If she lives alone and never has to board the dog, and does not EVER have company, a Fila is a great dog. She would need to get a young one so it bonds to the other dogs and the cat along with her. The standard of conduct will change her life for the life of the dog and there is no alternative. The behavior is genetic and will not be trained or socialized out. A pure Fila male is 140+ and strong. He probably will not "out" once he has the miscreant's face in his mouth. No one who does not live in the house can ever be allowed in. Period. She'll also never be cold again - they have to be near/on you all the time. Very affectionate.

A well selected and trained protection dog of a more traditional breed is staggeringly expensive. $10K is CHEAP. They are also potentially a pain the posterior. We also have a 6' fence, with the gates locked all the time. That's just part of the response we made to being burgled 2 years ago.

Not willing to shoot? She needs to do without the gun or change her mindset. She needs to make up her mind about her safety and well-being, and choose her priorities. If she is not willing to do what damage is needed to overcome the criminal, it will be hard as heck to help her.

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NHI, 10-8.

All these suggestions above are good, I would add:
Give her Cathy Jacksons book "Cornered Cat"
Send her a link to Cornered Cat | If you have to fight, fight like a cornered cat.

I have a daughter who is thirty and lives alone.

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Halfway and one more step

I'm going to tell her to read all what you all said. Getting back to the dogs. She is a Vet. and sometime her house looks like a hospital. She would NEVER buy a dog. Its not the money,she would go and get one at ASPCA. All the dogs she has are like 100 years old. They should of died many years ago but she keeps them living. I call her Miss Frankenstein.
The house she bought is in the dam woods. There is a park there. I think that's the reason why her house is getting robed. There is no other houses there.
Trying to tell her what to do from her dad is not working. If you have kids, well you know. All i get from her is ===I KNOW DAD.
One more thing. She post on facebook when she goes camping. I told her not to do that. That Sunday when someone came in the basement. She posted --We are going camping. She did go but came back Sat. night because it got to cold.. Sorry to go on and on --I'm just venting.

I too am going to suggest a dog. If she is a dog savior she should look around and find a Wolf hybrid. I have had 2. One for many years. Thing is they are very pack oriented. Somewhat like the dog mentioned above, but not so single minded. Mine where smart enough to figure out who I wanted and who I didn't. He was unreal whenever a bear came around and they didn't stay. Was good with my cats though. If you belonged you belonged, if you didn't you didn't. Some people he just didn't like and I took his advice on this! When I bought a 5 acre place I walked him around the property and leaked here and there as I went. He got it. By far the smartest dog I ever owned and the biggest lap dog. He even carried a fairly large pack when hiking. Doberman, Dane, Terrier, Shepard, he beat them all.

If she won't use a gun because she can't stand the thought of hurting someone she probably won't use any gun as demonstrated in the last incident. So to me it looks like she needs a bullet proof security system and a trained large dog.

All that aside she probably could use some gun training classes that stress personal security and why a gun is the best form of protection and perhaps the only option.

A complex problem with no easy answer.

Sounds like she needs a boy friend -- one with a military or LE background.

Helps on producing grand children, also.

Virtually all that need be said has been said. I'll only add that even if she decides to keep a gun in the home, and even if she decides that she could use it to protect herself after all, it's still near to useless if she doesn't learn to run it and run it well in a home defense situation; that means some kind of course(s) and regular practice.

If she can't or won't make a basic commitment to that, a gun is more hazard than help.

The title to your thread sounds like the irresistible set-up to the old punch line, "pretty good trade, huh?" I'd be curious to know what kind of gun you want someone to swap for her.

Seriously, you might find that if you introduce her to some of your friends closer to her age and who are enthusiastic shooters, and perhaps some of that will rub off on her. No matter how old we and they respectively get, there seems to be a certain barrier between the generations that frequently is just awfully hard to overcome when trying to convey a philosophy. I wish her well.

Green Frog

I don't know what brand of house alarm she has but all my motion sensers or adjusted so my Dalmation can walk around without activating them. I don't know if hers can be adjusted. Also maybe install another keypad in the bedroom so she could hit the panic button in there. How about cellular backup because if they cut the landline before entering alarm will go off but it will not register at monitering station

The alarm guy came today and i was there. Yes, they are adjustable but he didn't want to start adj. them. he first check if all the zones were right. He replace the sensor in the basement. He installed a panic button near the bed. He put in
a back up battery system. I replaced all 3 outside spotlights with motion detectors. I did some other things like bolt all the down stair windows. My daughter started a neighborhood watch. They put signs up. That's all i can do for now.

It's a start. One way you might get her to revisit her attitude is to point out the risk to the dogs if an intruder thinks they present a risk to HIM (or her). Since she has the laudable practice of taking in rescue dogs and taking care of them, she ought to be more concerned about their well-being than she seems to be about her own. It's one of the reasons that I am never unarmed when I walk the dogs and have not been in 20+ years.

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NHI, 10-8.

You're a concerned father taking an active role in his daughter's safety -- you can take pride in that.

Take her to a gun range and let her try a few. If she is like all the women I know who have done that, she will realize that a 9mm auto with a constant trigger pull and no safety lever to mess with is easier to shoot, less recoil, holds as much ammo as 3 J frames and is easier to get hits than a double action revolver.

The secret is to let her shoot both types.

If she shoots them side by side, she will end up with an M&P or Glock as opposed to any revolver.

As hard to imagine as it is for a lot of us who have always had guns, not everyone should have one.

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Oh well, what the hell.

Sounds like she needs a trained German Shepard not a gun.

Eric

I always had German Shepard until the kids left home. If anyone ever had a German Shepard they know how smart they are. The black dog is my daughters and the white one is my wife's.
We should start a Thread -Show me your Dog !! Dogs are 2 nd. best to a gun, maybe even better.

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I can not imagine how I would feel if I could not get my daughter to open her eyes to the real danger she was in. I wish you the best.

read the whole thread and wish you could change her mind. that is why we don't have a basement, really though you can't have one in most places in AZ due to water table.
as for social media, that has been getting people in trouble since it started, friends shooting friends over a mispost, people putting out on vacation, etc. i don't have an account and never will, plus i advise my wife and grown daughter not to post that kind of stuff either.

as for bear spray, a lot cheaper and almost better is Wasp and Hornet spray. big can and it sticks to the target. if you google it for self defense there are all kinds of posts. i have a can at the front door...next to the .357! will go through screen doors also.

just a thought to save money. looks like you have helped about as best as you can w/o you moving in with her or her moving back home.

i'd love to retire in the woods, but then there is that possibility that isolation breeds violation. Walls that keep people out also disguise those that have gotten over the walls.