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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 02-23-2014, 06:21 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Default Model 66 for 2014 - Holsters caution

I can now report that the new 66-8 for 2014 has a really FAT barrel. I had ordered a custom holster for the new revolver on the theory that the new revolver would be fine in a Model 66 holster so long as the barrel portion of the holster was cut to accommodate the new 4 1/4 inch barrel.

I will pass along this caution to those of you buying the new 2014 version of the 66. My existing holsters for the heavy barrel Model 64-8 will not allow the barrel of the new 2014 66-8 to be inserted with a proper fit. I found the same in a custom kydex for the Model 64-8 with heavy barrel.

Holster makers are either going to have to get a mold for the new 2014 Model 66-8 (and presumably the L Frame cousin, the Model 69) or some other modification will have to be made to existing designs. I suggest anyone ordering a true custom holster advise the maker of this fact, otherwise you may find yourself trying to shove an ill-fitting holster over a new S&W. I prefer a proper fit. Also, this problem may not affect the generic pattern mass-produced holsters of some leather and plastic holster makers. It will, however, affect a true to fit, blocked and fitted custom holster.

I do not have a proper caliper to make accurate measurements. Suffice it to say that the new 66-8 for 2014 will not fit the barrel profile for a heavy barrel 64-8, even if the length of the holster were correct.

Here are some comparison pictures of the 2014 66-8 with the heavy barrel 64-8 and the earlier 66-4. Left to Right: Picture 1, 64-8 on left; Picture 2, 66-4 on right; Picture 3, 64-8 on top; Picture 4, 66-4 on top.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg S&W 66 2014 bbl contour cf 64-8.jpg (91.6 KB, 881 views)
File Type: jpg S&W 66 2014 bbl contour cf 66-4.jpg (97.2 KB, 829 views)
File Type: jpg S&W 66 2014 top strap cf 64-8 sights.jpg (107.5 KB, 943 views)
File Type: jpg S&W 66 2014 top strap cf 66-4.jpg (111.0 KB, 811 views)

Last edited by shawn mccarver; 02-23-2014 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:41 PM
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Shawn ... Thank you for the report. The first two photos show what appears to be a 2mm difference. Is that accurate? If so, that is a fairly significant change in barrel diameter. If the new barrels are that much thicker, it would bode well for durability.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:49 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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As indicated, I do not have a caliper, so I cannot make an accurate measurement. I don't want to speculate. What I can say, is that the barrel on the new 66 for 2014 will not fit into the barrel portion of a holster for a heavy barrel 64-8. To be honest, it looks to me in person (although the photos do not show it too well) that the new 66 barrel is both fatter in diameter and that the top rib is also taller than the older 66. That creates a dilemma. The temptation for a mass produced holster company will be to use the 686 pattern, but that will not give a good fit, in my opinion, as the frame is taller on the L frame than the K frame. The barrel on the new 66 for 2014 (66-8) will go into the space for a barrel on a custom holster made for the 629, but of course the frames (like the L and K) of the N frame is taller than the K frame, which means it will not fit properly.

As I am not a holster maker, I can only speculate how each one will solve this problem.

No one wants to buy a new casting, but they may have to do so. Or, perhaps there is a casting that will work for both.
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Old 02-23-2014, 06:50 PM
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What Holster, and how much would you take for it? Thanks for the impute, I would like a good holster for my late model 66!
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:02 PM
shawn mccarver shawn mccarver is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbnatt View Post
What Holster, and how much would you take for it? Thanks for the impute, I would like a good holster for my late model 66!
I was able to notify the holster maker of the issue before the new one got built. Therefore, I do not have one to sell. We are exploring options.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawn mccarver View Post
I was able to notify the holster maker of the issue before the new one got built. Therefore, I do not have one to sell. We are exploring options.
Wrap the barrel of the 64 or 66 he is using for a guide with electrical tape to achieve desired diameter. Fit the holster, and remove the tape. shouldn't leave any mark on the barrel
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Old 03-30-2014, 02:41 PM
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Default Newb question

I just picked up a new M66-8 myself. Would a L frame holster for example a 686 holster be a better option? I am curious for myself too.
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Old 05-21-2014, 04:14 PM
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Interesting how many folks speak so casually about getting a new "mold" or "casting" for a new handgun model, as if it is as simple as picking up the old Sears catalog or calling a toll-free number.

Most of us in the business refer to these things as "dummy guns". Dummies are made by only a few companies (some are better than others), but the common denominator is that dummies are seldom offered for anything other than current production handgun models that have achieved a significant market share. Achieving said market share can take anywhere from a few months to a year or two before anyone considers making dummies, and MOST HANDGUN MODELS ARE NEVER OFFERED AS DUMMIES.

Folks who purchase new handgun models can usually expect to find no specific (formed fitted) holsters for those pieces available from any source.

I own dozens and dozens of dummy guns. I also own quite a few actual handguns. Dummies usually cost between $40 and $60 or so, and that level of investment can be recovered in the first order or two. The real handguns usually cost several hundred dollars to well over a grand, and that level of investment requires some serious consideration about just how much demand there will be for holsters.

Another factor that the holster maker must consider, but never occurs to most customers, is the time required to adapt each holster design to the new handgun model and generate the patterns to be used for production. This can take anywhere from about 30 minutes for a simple modification (barrel length, etc) to a couple of hours for an entirely new handgun model, and usually requires production of a prototype or two to adjust the pattern to final form. Since I am offering 12 different holster designs that means that I will be spending between 6 and 24 hours integrating the new handgun model into production, and during those hours no profits are being generated.

I am constantly monitoring holster demand for the newer handgun models. When demand is sufficient to justify the investment I will purchase the handgun. Moderate but ongoing demand may mean that I will wait for 6 months or a year to see if a dummy gun is offered.

At the present time I am aware of dummy guns being offered for only 4 or 5 S&W revolvers, and none of those are models that have been introduced over the past 20 years or so. Very, very few law enforcement agencies regularly use revolvers any more, thus removing a significant portion of the market for holsters. Of the nearly 100 different revolver models currently offered by S&W you can count on the fingers of one hand those that are available as dummies. The new 4.25" Model 66 (developed primarily to satisfy Canadian minimum barrel length requirements) is not one of them. With a manufacturer's suggested retail price of $849.00 I doubt very seriously that one could be obtained for much less with sales taxes, FFL transfer fees, etc, are added on.

So, a revolver manufactured primarily for the Canadian market with (in all likelihood) only a bit of overproduction funneled into the US market, will probably result in some holster demand. Will it be enough to convince a dummy gun maker to tool up for production? Probably not. Will it be enough to move a holster maker toward purchasing one for production use? That remains to be seen.

In the meantime I expect a few holster makers to either improvise (modify existing forming pieces), many of the larger manufacturers to continue offering "one size fits many" holsters, and quite a few to simply say "No, thank you" to orders.

Pretty long reply here, but the point is that it's a little bit more complicated than just buying a new dummy gun.
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:07 PM
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Very educational post Ray. I appreciate your contribution here as I'm sure many others do.
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Old 05-21-2014, 11:24 PM
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Maybe a holster for a 4 or 5" N-frame could be adapted.
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Old 07-08-2014, 10:34 AM
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I actually carry my new model 66 on duty and can attest to the fact that Safariland makes a duty holster that fits it well in all respects.

Last edited by Xatten; 07-08-2014 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 07-08-2014, 05:16 PM
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Barrel length or thickness won't effect by Hume belt slide type holster. They'll fit if the barrel is 2" long or if it drags the ground. As long as its a J-frame, or a K-frame, or a L-frame, or a N-frame specific slide, and gun of the same frame size will fit with no restrictions on barrel length or thickness, or sight type. As much as I don't need another 357, I'm started thinking about the new M-66. Anybody want to loan me some money?
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Old 07-28-2014, 01:39 AM
jaaeatax jaaeatax is offline
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Great review and photo's. My 686 plus holsters seem fine but were not custom. They fit the 66-8 and are all leather.
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Old 11-07-2014, 10:29 PM
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Hi, has anyone done a trigger job on the new 66-8. I can't seem to get the trigger smoother by dry firing. I shot about 100 rounds or so and it's basically the same. I have other revolvers and this one is extremely accurate but I can't use it with the stock trigger but I don't want to void the warranty by taking it in for wolf or wilson springs. Do you know if S&W can smooth it out without lightening the trigger too much??
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Old 11-08-2014, 03:45 PM
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Smith, the mother ship, offers action jobs on production and custom revolvers. Their action job won't void the warranty. I've owned revolvers with PC action jobs and stock actions. Smith still knows how to tune a revolver!
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Old 04-10-2016, 03:04 AM
trentcwwilson trentcwwilson is offline
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Saying these won't catch on is a lie. Same for the price. Got mine for 700 out the door. These are actually pretty popular seeing as 99% of the people I shoot with carry one. They like a model 19, but don't want a blued gun for carry. Enter the newly REINTRODUCED model 66. Popular then, popular now.

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Old 04-10-2016, 09:29 AM
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While Ray at Lobo Gun Leather is very sensitive to suggestions for improvement to his holster designs, something that led to a disagreement between us on a shoulder holster, I can say with certainty that his products are top-notch and that he knows of what he speaks.

I can also state from first-hand experience that some holsters from companies that do not make holsters to as exacting a fit standard as Ray does can be adapted to some degree. For example, Ray makes holsters specifially for S&W revolvers in (old style) K- and L-frame sizes while Bianchi and others make one that accepts both frame sizes. Also, I have a 4" holster that Ray made for me in L-frame size that, because it fits my Model 686 so snugly, works just fine with my (older) 4" Model 66 so you really might not know how something is going to work until you try it.

Perhaps a holster made for a 4" L-frame gun would work well with the new-style Model 66 despite the 1/4" of barrel length difference? I don't know and am just speculating. I'm sure Ray could tell us.

Ed
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Old 04-10-2016, 05:18 PM
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While I don't own the new 66, I do have a 69 with the longer 4.2" barrel length.

It would appear that the Canada-spec L-frames seem to fit all but the tightest of holsters designed for a 4-inch gun, in contrast to the 66s.


How hard would it be to cast one's own dummy gun? I have some mold-making materials and casting resin, but little experience with the process.
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Old 04-10-2016, 07:22 PM
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I read several reviews that claim this one from Galco works great with the new 66-8. https://www.copsplus.com/prodnum1779.php
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mc5aw View Post
Shawn ... Thank you for the report. The first two photos show what appears to be a 2mm difference. Is that accurate? If so, that is a fairly significant change in barrel diameter. If the new barrels are that much thicker, it would bode well for durability.
How does a thicker barrel add to durability?
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:30 AM
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Default Model 66 Dimensional Changes

What would motivate Smith & Wesson to make dimensional changes like this that don't really make any practical improvement, but screws up the fit in hundreds of thousands of existing holsters already out there?

Not to mention the re-tooling expenses of holster makers.
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smoothshooter View Post
What would motivate Smith & Wesson to make dimensional changes like this that don't really make any practical improvement, but screws up the fit in hundreds of thousands of existing holsters already out there?

Not to mention the re-tooling expenses of holster makers.
Probably because they are more concerned about the inner barrel sleeve being thick enough to withstand 1000's of magnum loads.

So the outer portion has to be bigger also.


The accessory market follows the gun makers, not the other way around.
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