Purchased a Wolff RP kit for my 625JM. Had excessive light primer hits. Called Wolff and was advised that their RP kit hammer spring would not work 100% in my gun. The only suggestion was to revert back to the original hammer spring. They did not offer a refund of my money so I'm SOL. Any suggestions on improving DA spring pull greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Try installing a competition firing pin. I believe that both Apex and C&S offer them. Slightly longer and slightly different profile.

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NRA Benefactor Member

You could try using Federal Ammo and primers if reloading. They are softer primers and will help eliminate light strikes.

I put the Apex firing pin in all of my Smith revolvers that MUST fire.

By the way, I use Jerry Miculek's matched spring kit (Bang, Inc) in both of my 625's along with the Apex firing pin and have NO problems with light hits.

FWIW
Dale53

I did what both the above posters suggested and have had no light strikes. I'm going to replace my C&S firing pin with an Apex, though -the steel in the C&S is a bit too soft for my liking.

Andy

You might check to make your hammer is traveling straight back. Watch it closely while slowly pulling the trigger DA. If it's out of square, that's likely costing you some hammer fall. You can also look at the DA sear. Make sure it's got some wear all the way across. If it's only in one place, it's not square to the trigger surface and will cause the hammer to move sideways. Maybe try just the rebound spring to see if you get the desired result.

I've never been a fan of Wolf springs ever since trying them on a Redhawk.

I grind S&W mainsprings myself with good results, along with squaring and polishing all bearing surfaces.
I'm still torn about messing with the rebound spring. I clipped one coil off on an M-66 and it feels a little funky.

I've never been a fan of Wolff springs since trying them in my 60-9. Light strikes. Had to put the original back in. I don't buy Wolff anymore.

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But then, what do I know?

A fellow retired LEO on this Forum told me he used a Model 25 for entry work. He never changed or modified springs. Said he wanted the round to fire and the trigger to return. End of story.

I've had "experts" tell me there is no such thing as marginal or incomplete primer ignition, but they can't cite anything to support their opinion.

When I tried them in my redhawk, groups started stringing in an almost perfect vertical pattern and got progressively worse with each 1kb reduction in the spring kit. This was consistent across multiple groups and stopped as soon as I reinstalled the factory spring. That was 20 yrs ago and I still have a batch of that very-accurate load, so I may have to get a chrono & see what the variation is like.

Comparing a Redhaqk to a Smith is kinda apples-to-oranges though, since the Redhawk has the one does-it-all coil spring where the Smiths have the leaf MS.

Thanks for posting your findings. Seems many folks believe changing out (or trimming) springs must be done before even firing the gun. Once bought a beautiful used 649 with the smoothest DA pull. However, misfires/light hits at the range. Oops. Gunsmith installing standard mainspring cleared up problem. Still a nice DA pull.

Interesting to find other shooters who feel as I do.

My Performance Center 625 .45 started to experience light strikes after 2-300 rounds. Real head scratcher as I had not changed anything. Called SW, sent it in....they put a new pin in and it works great, no issues. The rep indicated they are now making the pins a fraction longer as stock.

I tried the Wolff springs in my 625JM first, and had about a 30% fail-to-fire rate. Good trigger, but totally unacceptable!
The Apex 'competition' firing pin did not improve it much.
Wilson Combat's hammer spring made it a little more reliable, but anything less than 100% sucks.
I hate to send it in for a Performance Center trigger job, but if I can't make it run better than this I guess I will.
The stock trigger was pretty poor. Any serious suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
BTW- I am going to try the Jerry Michulek springs mentioned by a previous poster. I will post an update after a couple hundred rounds. Do any of you use them successfully?

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

I will offer a suggestion to try, but keep a second original main spring on hand. I read in an old book some time ago (don't ask what book) that to reduce the trigger pull, replace the rebound spring with a 14 lb spring, then, "grind approximately .005" from each EDGE of the mainspring". I have tried this on one of my K frames, and it did indeed drop the trigger pull a couple lbs. Be sure t put some bluing and oil on it to kep from rusting.

Has anyone else ever heard or tried this?

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

H Richard,
I am using a 13lb. rebound spring already, but since I have an extra stock hammer spring, I will try taking a few thousanths off the edges to see what results I get.
I just ordered the Bang, Inc. springs. I will let you all know what happens with them, too.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

Whenever I buy a used S&W revolver whose trigger to suspiciously wonderful, I check the strain screw. Then if it is light-striking, I replace the main spring and rebound springs with factory. After some practice and the normal smoothing out process, I prefer the factory weight springs.

My ultimate solution was to dump the late production revolvers with the frame mounted firing pins and replace them with older Smiths that have the firing pin in the proper location...on the hammer.

And yes, I tried every one of the suggestions mentioned above and some others as well. The guns in question were self-defense handguns and I will not own a defensive weapon that is so finicky it has to have a certain kind of ammunition or primers to reliably fire.

Dave

PS: And in case you were wondering, yes I am an old curmudgeon.

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RSVN '69-'71
PCSD (Ret)

I am not a fan of real light springs. I use the method that was taught to me by an officer that had been to the S&W advanced armorer school about 40 years ago. He said it is what the factory fitters taught him. That was to cut two coils off the main spring and balance the mainspring with a couple of kinks with a wooden wedge.

I have not had any luck with any aftermarket springs. Don't like the feel and they don't perform any better than the above method. This does not reduce the DA pull below 8 pounds or so and has 100 % reliability. This method applies to hammer nose firing pins. Frame mounted firing pins seem to require more strength, although I have a couple of 627-2s that run pretty good around 8 pounds.

I have seen some disagreement here on cutting the trigger return spring, but I have not seen any adverse affects. Each to his own preference!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

I'll throw out what I have been thinking (but have not yet tried!), which is to use the aftermarket spring, but add shims between the strain screw and main spring and slowly raise the tension until it fires reliably.

You also might try snipping a coil off the firing pin spring.

A lighter rebound spring helps lighten the trigger, but too light and the trigger will be slow to reset.

My gunsmith bent the factory mainspring to lighten it. It was good for a while, but now it is too light. In single action it seems like it goes off if you breathe on it hard. I need to see if the strain screw backed out. Do mainsprings weaken over time?

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Common sense isn't so common.

This is a classic issue with the Wolff reduced power main spring... the issue is the recess that the "power rib" introduces, that the stock spring does not have.

The tip of the strain screw fits into that groove, and with the added distance it adds, the stock screw is too short to properly load the spring when tightened down.

For round butt guns, buy a strain screw for a square butt, it's longer.

For a square butt, buy an 8-32 cap screw and fit the length to work.

I have a 625-8 JM and a 986, both round butt grip frames.

The 986 came factory equipped with the Performance center mainspring... I was curious about the difference, pulled the side plate...hmmmm, looks just like the Wolff RP mainspring, power rib and all. The strain screw from the factory was a recognizable longer square butt strain screw.

I had just put a Wolff RP sping in my 625-8 JM... encountered the light strikes, copied what S&W did in the 986, problem solved.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Out of spec head space (even marginal on the + side) can cause this, & lighter mainsprings make the problem more noticeable. Depending on current barrel / cylinder gap, a good smith can sometimes adjust this.

Moon clip thickness, & brass spec, throws another factor into the mix...

Notice any difference in light primer strikes / FTF - between DA, & SA?

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Regards - GCF

You can also use an 8-32 x 1/2" set screw (no head to deal with). Adjust, mark and trim to length if necessary. Use purple Loc-Tite when installing.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

GCF,
Single action is about 95%, and double action is a dismal 80%.
Both are unacceptable.
The Miculek springs are on the way. If I don't get 100% out of them, I am going to reinstall the Wolff spring with a longer strain screw. The Wolff spring gave the most FTFs, but the very best trigger.
I will let you all know what spring/screw combo gives a 100% fire rate with an acceptable trigger.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

I have been using a method similar to this for 25 plus years. Note: I don't use a power tool to reduce the width of the mainspring. This should be done with a mill file by hand. No sense in taking a chance on inducing excess heat into the spring.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

I'm feeling kinda impatient today, so even though the Miculek springs will be here Monday, I filed one of my stock hammer springs .005" on each edge.
There is actually a noticeable difference in feel! I am guessing a 2 pound reduction. I will borrow a pull gauge at the range in a while to find out.
When I get back in a couple of hours I will let you know the results.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

That about sums it up. This sucks!
With the stock spring 'thinned' a little, the trigger feels good, but only fires about 80%. Sound familiar?
I just wasted 150 rounds of ammo (50 rounds each of 3 kinds) to find out that this setup isn't any better than the last.
I hope Dale53 is right, and my 625JM will run with no FTFs after installing the Miculek springs!
Come on, USPS!

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

Recently picked up a used 22-4 thunder ranch. PO had installed a Wolff main spring. Got a bunch of light primer strikes. Put in a factory mainspring and discovered he also put in a reduced power rebound spring. Back to stock for that as well. Trigger is a little heavier, but I expect it will go bang each and every time and I think I prefer that in the end...

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- Jeff

I'll go ahead and ask the dumb question. Was the gun 100% reliable with the factory springs, before installing the aftermarket springs?

Just my opinion, but I think the best way to improve the DA pull on a revolver that has to function 100% is to have a gunsmith smooth the action using the factory springs. I know it's not exactly the same as your situation, but I have a stock 642-1 and a 642 no-dash with a trigger job and factory springs. I can tell a big difference between the two, and both have been 100% reliable with whatever I've put in the chambers.

ContinentalOp,
At this point I think I agree about factory springs.
Nothing short of 100% is acceptable, of course.
Since I have already ordered them, I am going to try the Miculek springs.
If I get even one FTF, I will send the 625 in for a Performance Center trigger job.
I would like to have the charge holes chamfered and the muzzle crowned anyway.
I'll let you all know the results with the Michulek springs Monday or Tuesday after I get a chance to try them.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

Sounds like you're wasting a lot of money, and plan on burning some more. You do know the factory will just install Wolf springs in your gun anyway, and about the only real request you will probably get is the chamfered chambers. The barrel is already crowned.

At this point, I would be wondering if the gun was reliable from the start with factory springs. Cause it sure sounds like something is amiss.

With the leaf spring S&Ws, I have found that you lighten the rebound spring to decrease DA pull. The SA pull is more affected by the mainspring, but has pressure from the rebound spring too. So what I do is buy the 3 pack rebound spring kit and just lighten the factory mainspring via strain screw if possible, but would file it thinner if necessary.

I start with replacing the rebound spring with the lowest weight given out of the usual 3 pack. Then I test it for proper trigger rebound. If it doesn't rebound properly with the strain screw completely tightened on the factory mainspring like it should, then the mainspring needs lightened, but just to the point where it allows good trigger rebound. So with the lowest weight rebound spring, I will loosen the strain screw until rebound is normal, if possible. As sometimes with the lowest weight rebound spring, the strain screw needs backed out so far it ruins the mainspring's geometry of function. In that case, you have to bump up to the next weight rebound spring, test the rebound, then adjust mainspring again. Once you get the lightest rebound spring possible that will still allow lightened factory mainspring function, then you have to test reliability. If it has light strikes, then the mainspring needs heavier, which will require re-tweaking both of them again. Once you have the springs as light as you can get them but still fully reliable, it's all polishing and refining the internals then.

Each gun will be different, but there shouldn't be a reason why it doesn't work if done properly and within limits. So again, I'm surprised that you have had about zero success. I would keep playing with it until corrected, or send it into Smith for warranty service if possible and give them a crack at it for free, instead of paying them.

iPac,
I have a 13# trigger rebound spring now, and the trigger both feels pretty good and returns well.
Fortunately, I like to tinker, and I have only spent $45.00 on spring kits. No big loss.
The more I think about it, if the Miculek springs don't run 100% I will just put a factory spring back in it, and call it good.
At least with this trigger spring the DA pull is no longer 10+ pounds. I will just get used to it, and enjoy it.
S&Ws are great shooting revolvers as you can see in my avatar!

P.S.- I will use the 'trigger job money' for a case of ammo instead.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

If you want a light trigger, tuned revolver, then just load with Federal primers. Or use Federal factory loads.
It's not rocket science, don't overthink the "problem".

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

Just a guess but have you removed and measured your firing pin OAL ?

Clark Custom Guns.
They do a Service Action Job (carry , defensive) or a
Target Action Job (target shooting)
Their work will put a smile on your face....the target action trigger is just a magical thing to experience.
Life's short ...try them out.
Gary

While you are at it, you might check the firing pin length (different lengths are available), barrel / cylinder gap, & also the headspace - with brass loaded moonclips in place.

Different thickness clips are available, & can make a difference.

Spring weight is only (especially in a moon clip M625) a small part of the equation.

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Regards - GCF

I had an Apex competition firing pin til this afternoon.
I got to thinking this over some more. For several years I have been shooting exclusively 1911s, and enjoying their short, crisp, light triggers. Even the 'duty' setups are a joy to shoot.
Just a few months ago I decided to go 'back to my roots' and start shooting revolvers again after not owning one for 20 years.
The transition from 1911s to revolver has been an uphill battle till today. I put the stock parts back in, and went to the range. The trigger was really not bad, and it was pretty predictable.
SA was as good as a 'duty' 1911.
I shot groups similar to my avatar in both SA and DA.

The moral of the story is "If it ain't broke, don't fix it"
It goes BANG every time I pull the trigger, and it shoots right
over the front sight.

P.S.- When the Miculek springs arrive, I will put them in my 617
for shooting bulls-eye.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

The Miculec hammer spring worked for my 686. I also use an 11 lb trigger return spring (the minimum made by Wolff) that gives me a wonderful 2-2/3 lb SA trigger.

OK. I confess to being a compulsive tinkerer.
The Miculek springs came early, and I couldn't resist trying them.
I swapped the springs, and headed to the range to see what they would do.
It fired 100%, but without tuning the strain screw to achieve a 7 lb. trigger as they recommend it felt bad. I just didn't like the heavy, rough trigger.
I then put the factory hammer spring in with the Bang, Inc. rebound spring, and it was a little better, but not good enough to leave it that way.
I thought about it while I walked to the Coke machine, and tried the factory hammer spring with the 13 lb. Wolff rebound spring.
Voila! It now has a nice, smooth trigger that is lighter than factory, and it goes BANG every single time I pull the trigger.
It feels good DA and SA. All it took was a lighter rebound spring.
I am settled with it now, and will leave it this way.
Tinkering good!

P.S.- Miculek warns of light primer strikes with their springs tuned for competition with a 7 lb. trigger. They strongly recommend using ONLY Federal ammo or primers.
This is not good imho, so I am not going to 'tune' the strain screw. I will live (happily) with what I have.

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Shoot Well! Have Fun! BE SAFE!

My gunsmith told me that the old S&W revolvers with the firing pin connected to the hammer can be set with a lighter DA pull (with good ignition) than the new S&W revolvers with the firing pin safety. I'm lucky that I don't really care about the DA pull ... I just shoot it SA, and would only use DA if a bad guy was right on top of me.

Pretty easy to make the revolver less reliable than the factory makes it. Not so easy to make it more reliable. I guess it's just a personal choice which one you prefer.