-FYI- Model 69 and 66-8 ball detent design
- Thread starter 500swmag
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500, I am blown away that you joined in 2003 and this is your first post. You have a lot more self control than me, lol. 
Good info on why those ball detents look weird. Discussion on this topic has been spirited.
Good info on why those ball detents look weird. Discussion on this topic has been spirited.
Ashlander
Member
Nice visual aid. Thanks!
Spirited is not the word! Seriously, S&W's Performance Center produced 3 snub Mag revolvers (629, 657, 627) with a ball-detent forward lockup.
Can anyone post a picture of this earlier lockup for comparison with the 69's system?
Can anyone post a picture of this earlier lockup for comparison with the 69's system?
Uh, nothing on file that's turned up yet, but even the big PCs have had ball "locks" up front for years.
Note the lack of an underlug plunger on this mid-'90s PC:
All that front end locking junk on S&Ws after the Triple Lock have been more "Kind Thoughts" (think "Marketing Ploy") than anything truly functional. Extractor rod locks have too much "slop" in the system to do much real good. (If it were a true locating feature, then all of the under- and over-rotated barrels would create real dramas!) All the important stuff happens at the back of the cylinder. (Unless you're talking Brand DW, etc.)
I am tempted to say: "Bring back the REAL Triple Lock!" But all that would do is add cost without truly improving anything.
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Maybe all the various internet-engineers will consider your explanation and calm down a bit... ?
Maximumbob54
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I guess I just got lucky with my 327 R8 because while it's not perfect in the center and is in fact slightly off it's not by nearly as much as any of the new guns have been pictured. It's actually hard to see that it's not perfect centered. The new guns are so off center that at a glance it's a little shocking.
i'd usually rather listen than talk.500, I am blown away that you joined in 2003 and this is your first post. You have a lot more self control than me, lol.
Good info on why those ball detents look weird. Discussion on this topic has been spirited.
You're welcome.
Just trying to provide some facts and put folks concerns to rest.Maybe all the various internet-engineers will consider your explanation and calm down a bit... ?
Performance center has the luxury of tweaking. In standard production we can't afford the extra fitting time so it needs to go together without fiddling.
buck460XVR
Member
With all the whinnin' about the "bad lookin' poor design ball detent" on another online forum, I had my youngest son who is a third year engineering student look at the pics posted there and he explained to me how and why he thought it was a correct design, even tho it didn't look right to the average Joe. His remarks mirrored yours. Thanks for validating that my money going towards his education, is going to good use. BTW...I have two P.C. firearms, A .460 Compensated Hunter and a L.H. .44 Magnum Hunter with the ball detent lockup and they are great guns, and both are scarey accurate.
Respectfully, l dont need an engineer to tell me what is right and what is not...lt needs to look good too. l know rubber grips and rubber stocks on rifles.shotguns.handguns are tougher.. But they dont look right or feel right to me..l prefer wood..
l had wanted a 69 until l got the chance to feel and see 2 69s and a Mod 66 at Nickols Store outside Rock Hill recently...The sight of that ball being off center turned me off to both models.. My desire was quenched
l had wanted a 69 until l got the chance to feel and see 2 69s and a Mod 66 at Nickols Store outside Rock Hill recently...The sight of that ball being off center turned me off to both models.. My desire was quenched
Appearance over substance?
A lot of great things in life from good women to good used guns get overlooked because of how they look. Sometimes wanting things as you 'think' they should be makes you miss out on some really great experiences. I remember I bought a few bottles of cheap Spanish wine as a gift and it turned out to be a fantastic present for a couple of wine lovers I gave it too. To me they looked like some old, moldy, dusty bottles that didn't sell in the back of a liquor store, but the old owner sad trust me this stuff is great, it is not moving because idiots want a cute bottle.
The reason some 'new' things are better, is because, they are.
riverrat38
US Veteran
I will take an offset ball detent over a ground off forcing cone (flat spot) every time.
For both form and function considerations.
Best,
Rick
For both form and function considerations.
Best,
Rick
71firebird400
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Looks are subjective. Function is not.
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I understand your point from the point of view of the entire pistol or revolver. For example, people often say that Hi-Point firearms are ugly, but they work. I happen to agree on that point. I would not buy that make of firearm because the appearance of the whole pistol is, in my opinion, "just not right."
That said, you really have to look for it to even see the "issue" that so many have made of the ball-detent lock-up on the Model 66 and 69. I personally cannot see how it detracts from the lines of the revolver in the least, especially if it helps to maintain a tight lock-up.
I suppose everyone is free to buy or not buy for whatever reason, but I simply do not agree that the ball-detent lock-up is so ugly and so detracting from the overall appearance of the revolver that an otherwise great firearm should be rejected because of this non-existent issue.
And, personally, I am very grateful that the OP created this thread to put an end to the "hobby-engineers" who seem to know so much about gun design, yet are not employed at S&W or any other gun company. This thread follows a previous one about a buyer who got the same response from S&W's customer service, and I for one, appreciate the fact that this Forum Member, who rarely posts, took the time to speak to this issue.
Thank you.
44_wheel_gunner
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Please excuse my ignorance, since i am new to this forum...
Question: Is "500swmag" actually an engineer who works for S&W? and was his post meant to be the official word from S&W about the ball detent?
Question: Is "500swmag" actually an engineer who works for S&W? and was his post meant to be the official word from S&W about the ball detent?
JAREDSHS
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was wondering the same thing-----how about it "500swmag" ?? what say you?
Maximumbob54
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I have actually wondered the same thing. There is no way possible this system of lock up is holding any serious pressure on the action to keep anything tight. I know the pressure on the ejector rod can effect the trigger pull and on older models the rod could work loose and make the action hard to open. So I get that they wanted something else but this seems like an expensive way to move on and doesn't even do much. On the PC guns I guess it's a show of quality like "look what we can do" but on the regular production guns I just don't get it.
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