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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 05-23-2014, 12:07 PM
njr njr is offline
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Default Big Bore Snubbies?

I've looked around the net and while I'd like to get a big bore snubby I guess they're not being currently produced. I guess there's not a big enough market? I'm thinking 5 shot k or l frame, 25 to 30 ounces. I guess most people are happy enough with 38 special airweights?

More power than 38 special without the crack and snap of 357.

44 special or 45 acp.

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Old 05-23-2014, 12:10 PM
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I have a Bowen worked 296 in .44 SPL. that I carried a lot as both a back up and recreational gun (lightweight gun for mountain biking). It is ugly, but one of my all-time favorites. If you want .45ACP, there are a bunch of semi-autos that better fit the role (the Glock 36 is a good example).
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Old 05-23-2014, 12:28 PM
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Oops make that extreme CQC not extreme CCW, heh.


296 is n frame six shot right? In thinking k or l frame for concealment around town.

Yeah I guess there is xds 45 etc but then I'm thinking that's a bit light for the caliber. With semi auto you get into reliability questions with cycling. I'm thinking snubby big bore five shot for extreme CQC maybe single stack semi auto as a back up to that for greater distances

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Old 05-23-2014, 01:09 PM
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You can always go old school:

This is a .455 Hand Ejector that was converted to 45 Colt and snubbed to a 3 1/4" barrel.
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Old 05-23-2014, 01:11 PM
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The 296 is an L frame 5 shot .44spl. I usually run mine with 200 gr. CCI hollow points.
Here is a link to an article I did that has some pictures of mine with the Bowen sights:

Sight-Perfect Snubbies - Personal Defense World
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:30 PM
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Dare I say it...Charter Bulldog.
If that doesn't float your boat (didn't mine) there's also the 696, a 3" "sort of" snub:

And if bigger is mo better, there's always the 3" 624:
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Old 05-23-2014, 02:55 PM
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You didn't say if you mind newer revolvers or want an older one.

I think there's lots to choose from.

Oh, first , I don't think you'll find a k frame 5 shot big bore. S&W didn't make one. Taurus has a nearly k frame 5 shot in 44 spe. The 445 ultra lite.

Also Taurus in the past has made 5 shot 44 spe., 45 colt, and 45 acps all with 2 " barrel. The 450, in 45 colt in titanium is quite a hand cannon.

You say not much market, but Charter Arms has made quite a living with it's 44 bulldog in various configurations.

Back to Smith.

In 45 acp

325 pd, 325 sc, 325 ng, 625-10, 25-14 and some I'm forgetting

in 45 colt

25-14, 625-11

In 44 spe

24-6, 396ng, aforementioned 296, 696 ,396 mtn lite

In 45 colt AND 45 acp there were custom conversions by:

Behlert and Jovino.

There's also a whole bunch of 1917, 2nd model 455 and 1937 Brazilian custom conversions. Some of them done well.

The 2nd model 455 was also done in 45 colt (pictured earlier).

You can tell I really like snubby big bores.

Do a search here. Look for Belly Guns thread.

Have fun

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Old 05-23-2014, 04:06 PM
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As mentioned above the 25-14 is a nice one.



Maybe not a "big bore" to some but it's the right package and IMHO a 10mm will get'er done.



I find both of these easy to pack and shoot well.
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Old 05-23-2014, 04:28 PM
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I carry this one quite regularly now. 657 .41 Magnum.

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Old 05-23-2014, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clang444 View Post
You can always go old school:

This is a .455 Hand Ejector that was converted to 45 Colt and snubbed to a 3 1/4" barrel.
Clang444
I think I've got your gun's cousin. Born in 1913. It did a little time in His Majesty's service.
Different cylinder and barrel, and now its a .45 Colt.

It don't beller, don't kick, light to pack, and still packs a purty good punch.
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Old 05-23-2014, 05:31 PM
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True carry guns, the way a carry gun is supposed to be. Thanks for the photos, people.
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Old 05-23-2014, 06:31 PM
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When I decided I needed a big bore snub nosed revolver, small enough to easily conceal. I was looking for a S&W J frame in 45 acp. Trip to the local gun dealer showed That did not exist. He had a Charter arms Bulldog in 44 spcl....just wasn't taken with it. But he said I can get you a Taurus model 455 , 5 shot, 45 acp with 2 inch ported barrel and fixed sights....I told him get the light weight Titanium model.
It came in, but was in all stainless steel, never mind, I'll take it,
looked good, felt good, just a tad larger than J-frame Smith in 38 spcl. but it was a 45...It is surprisingly accurate, I enjoy shooting it...ported barrel and weight of all steel makes shooting fun. Got a Bianchi inside the waistband holster and good to go with it.
Not currently manufactured but keep eyes open for one...they pop up now and again. Taurus might make another run...they are rather handy.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:17 PM
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Here's my carry snubbie...a 657 in .41 magnum.

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Old 05-23-2014, 07:36 PM
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You could always find an old New Service, and do something like this to it:
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:38 PM
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Here's my carry snubbie...a 657 in .41 magnum.


Who made the holster? I'm gonna guess Mitch Rosen maybe.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:54 PM
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Who made the holster? I'm gonna guess Mitch Rosen maybe.
It's a Milt Sparks PMK. Works perfectly.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:04 PM
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Great photos and suggestions guys thanks.

I did do some googling on the topic and didn't think there was much out there.

Glad to be more or less wrong.

One question: ballistics wise, how do these perform?

What is the weight on a cut down colt 45?

I've been intrigued with this subject since seeing the photo of Rex Applegate's colt 45 snub on the cover of Ed Lovettes book.

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Old 05-23-2014, 08:42 PM
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njr, hold on a few minutes, I have some photos of one that might interest you.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:47 PM
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This is a 1917 S&W .45 DA that has been bobbed. There is some pitting on the frame and cylinder, which makes me think the gun has been plated. It has been lying in a Franklin, NC pawn/jewelry/gun shop for months with a $500.00 price tag. It was there two weeks ago.

I took these picks 7/20/13
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:58 PM
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Somebody orta put that old warrior to work.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:00 PM
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There is also a nickel 3.5" S&W 24-? "Classic" 5 screw with the ILS NIB at a shop back home, and a nickel 21-4 with the ILS, both around $1,200.00 each.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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There is also a nickel 3.5" S&W 24-? "Classic" 5 screw with the ILS NIB at a shop back home, and a nickel 21-4 with the ILS, both around $1,200.00 each.

Don't sound like that feller is ready to sell just yet.......
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njr View Post
Great photos and suggestions guys thanks.

One question: ballistics wise, how do these perform?

What is the weight on a cut down colt 45?

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As far as ballistics for mine goes, I really don't know. I use 8.5 gr. of Unique, and a 250 gr. SWC. I don't have a chronograph, but the book says 850, and with the shortened barrel, I'm guessing at least 800. I chose the front bead height so I could set it just over the rear notch, for quick close range shooting. I also practice point shooting with it, and it's a natural.

I've never weighed it, and I don't have a very good scale, but I'd say it's in the neighborhood of 40 ounces.


Now, this is one of my other snubbies, it's a SRH that's had the barrel trimmed to 2.75". This is the one that goes out in the woods with me. The bottom group was a .44 Special load that I loaded for my Contender, it was nice to find out the Ruger liked it, too. The top group was what I carry in the woods, a 300 gr. XTP over H-110. Both groups were shot at 10 yards, offhand.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:54 PM
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Many thanks for the responses and all the gun porn, heh.

My preliminary conclusion is that: 45 acp would make sense but as a previous poster noted, it works better in the semi auto platform due to the necessity of using bulky moon clips which would rule out summer carry. However, could you have the cylinder recessed?

44 special would seem to be more of a natural fit but the ammo is still expensive and almost all of the offerings are in n frames.

You would probably have to reload for 44 special or have a supply line to a reloader for cheaper rounds. Still, how cheaply can you buy 44 reloaded special? I almost bought a Dillon but honestly, maintaining an apartment as a bachelor is enough work and I probably wouldn't put the extra time into reloading, cleaning, prepping, etc.

The Charter Bulldog would seem like the platform I'm looking for in terms of size, but they are pretty cheaply made.

Have to go to bed, so I'll leave it there.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:58 PM
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The op asked about the weight of a cut down 45 colt.

Well that will vary.

a 2nd model 455 cut to 3 1/4" and done in 45 colt will weigh in at roughly 32oz empty WITHOUT grips. The type of grips will make a difference. Let's say 34 to 36 oz empty with grips.

Now the 25-14 and Jovino and Behlert jobs may will be 39 to 40 oz empty with grips.

The ones mentioned above are steel frame guns.

I have a 625-10 2.1 in barrel that weighs in empty with wood boot grips at a hair under 22 oz. stainless cylinder, scandium frame.

Also have a 325sc weighing empty with larger grips at 22.5 oz. Titanium cylinder and scandium frame.

I know the Taurus 44 spe ultra lite with factory grips is 22 oz empty.

Recoil goes up with the 625-10 and other light weights.

Still effective. Mine is a pleasure to shoot with PMC 200 gr copper jacketed.

As for ballistics, for my purpose that 45 cal hole in the barrel might be all I need. Still a big slug at self defense ranges. Don't care if it's 750 or 700 fps at 10-15 yards.

Big bore snubs are nice!

Dave
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:05 PM
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RE: Moon clips in summer. There are 3 versions of clips for 45ACP
Full moon, Half moon and 1/3rd moon.

In the winter I dump a couple of full moons in a coat pocket. In summer I use the 1/3rd moons. Dump several in the watch pocket of my britches and I'm good to go.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clang444 View Post
You can always go old school:

This is a .455 Hand Ejector that was converted to 45 Colt and snubbed to a 3 1/4" barrel.
A 3 1/4" bbl does not a snub nose make methinks.
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:16 PM
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A 3 1/4" bbl does not a snub nose make methinks.
I won't tell if you don't!!!
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Old 05-23-2014, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
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It's a Milt Sparks PMK. Works perfectly.

I was right kinda sorta, because I was thinking Milt Sparks although I typed Mitch Rosen. I'm bad about mixing them even though I keep it straight in my head. Sharp, sharp holster.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
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njr, hold on a few minutes, I have some photos of one that might interest you.
Thanks Bruce that looks really nice but I'm thinking it's probably closer to an N frame?

Thinking that 44 special would be the way to go because it's rimmed and widely available add I'm assuming that 44 special defensive loads are more available than say 45 Colt. Also I'm looking at getting a Smith 29 so the ammo would be compatible.


Still, that's a really nice revolver.


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Old 05-24-2014, 08:59 AM
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Yes, this is a N frame snubbie. The .45 Auto Rim cartridge is a rimmed .45 a.c.p., made so one does not have to use the moon clips in the revolvers. There is a wide range of self defense ammo in the big bore calibers.

You might also look at the Taurus 431 .44 special, a beefier gun than a Charter Arms, also a five shot revolver.
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:10 AM
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This one has been around. It's my 625-4 with 2" barrel installed. It's a one of a kind, so I had to make the holster myself. The short, flat 2" barrel with large cylinder and heavy weight for size made holster design very critical, as it would fall out of every conventional holster that I tried. I finally got it right, and it has been my daily carry for a while now.

Moonclips are NOT bulky to carry. If I wanted, I could carry five or more reloads clipped to my belt and nobody would ever know it. Carrying the same amount of ammo for a rimmed cartridge is much more difficult if not impossible.

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Old 05-24-2014, 09:21 AM
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Look at the Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 Spl. I had one back in the early 80's and I loved it. The only reason I sold it was because I was transferred to Japan.

This Autumn their 45 ACP Pitbull will be coming out. I'll be first in line.

IMO S&W really missed the boat on this. A 5-shot 44 Spl or 45 ACP is a natural progression from 38 Spl. With the popularity of 5-shot 38's no one will ever convince me there isn't a HUGE market for people who love a 45.

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Old 05-24-2014, 03:00 PM
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to the op: Not sure if anyone answered this , but a 296 is a 5 shot L frame.

A friend had one, at 18.5 oz it was a handle to shoot because it was double action only.

Some one mentioned a Taurus 431 (fixed sight). My wife had a Taurus 441 (adj sight) 5 shot that weighed in at 33oz or so empty.

I'm still opting for the lighter weight packages. At 33 oz empty add another 4 to 5 oz loaded (5 rounds). Granted the frame is closer to in between a k and L but still a hefty gun.

Not trying to steal the thread but it was mentioned Charter is FINALLY coming out with their 45acp bulldog in the fall.

I will believe it when I see one. First announcement of rimless revolvers from Charter arms was back in late '08,early '09.

As for caliber, for snub noses, I prefer the 45 acp these days. Can still find 100 rounds of 45 acp in white box at Walmart for 39.99 to 44.99. When the scalpers don't get them first.

Dave
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Old 05-24-2014, 03:25 PM
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There is a tremendous allure to a large bore snub, but be careful what you wish for. I owned a 396 Mountain Lite, and @ 19oz, it was virtually unshootable with the factory open backstrap rubber grip. I have NEVER experienced recoil like that. A 500 Mag grip helped, but the concealability was lost on the large rubber handle. Gemini Customs worked up a pair of 296s for CCW and they looked beautiful. I'm sure the price for the custom package was not quite as attractive.

With the importance of the N-frame platform to the roster, S&W really should rethink the .45 ACP as a viable caliber to produce in something more than just the Miculek models. I bet a steel .45 snub would do well with the current interest and ammo availability.
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Old 05-24-2014, 04:24 PM
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I can image the 19oz mtn lite was a handful. Recoil can be a variable "felt" perception.

By that I mean it depends on the caliber, load and configuration of the gun.

The hardest recoil I ever felt with a "handgun" was shooting a Remington XP bolt action pistol in .7mm/.308. quite an experience.

Now having said that, my 625-10 45 stings a bit with the wood boot grips. With the larger rubber grips, tame by comparison.

I guess I will trade felt recoil for weight and portability for close encounter defensive purposes.

It's been asked many times on this forum: If Taurus can make a 45acp and 45 colt in nearly a K frame, why can't Smith?

I will tell you though the Taurus tracker (model 455) 5 shot 45 acp would only fire 45acp with it's own designed stellar 5 round clips. It would not chamber the 45 auto rim. Something to do with headspacing and the way the cylinder was cut.

Smith 6 shot n frames will fire both acp and auto rim.

Now that I think of it, if Charter ever does come out with the 45 rimless bulldog, I'm guessing it won't fire 45 auto rims.

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Old 05-24-2014, 05:19 PM
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Default My current duo

S&W 629-5 .44 mag. (pre-lock)




1917 Colt .45acp

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Old 05-24-2014, 06:00 PM
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I have to say THANKS to all who contributed to the thread so far.. I am a snubbie fan. I love shooting my .41 mag, however it is not a smith it is a Taurus model 415. I have to say it shoots just fine for me and I would buy another .41 if I could find one at a price I could afford, with a wife and two teenage daughters I have to be careful with my money. Thanks again to all who posted the fine photos. Be safe.
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Old 05-24-2014, 06:23 PM
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Default are you pondering what I'm pondering?

A model 69 could be shortened to near snub-nose length. A hacksaw, a file, some elbow grease, a virtual trip to brownell's for a crowing tool...the front sight would be the trickiest bit.

A cylinder with enough meat for a 44 magnum should have enough meat for a 45 at acp pressures (or colt pressures). I wonder if Hamilton Bowen would think so?


Cheers,
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Old 05-24-2014, 07:31 PM
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I've owned 8 Charter Bulldogs.
Only one has ever given any trouble.
It was either a Charco or a Charter 2000 iteration.
They're not Smiths, but they work and work well.
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:21 PM
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What about a Rossi .44 special?

I have one on loan from a cousin - should I make an offer?
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Old 05-24-2014, 08:35 PM
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I guess these three apply ... 624, 696, and Ruger Alaskan in .44 mag (with 624 for comparison).

The target is from this afternoon's range session. Drawn from the holster and fired double action, the Alaskan does the job well. It's a big clunker of a revolver, but it's dead on accurate. I was shooting HSM 240g Specials, so recoil was minimal. Even an anvil of a snubbie can work wonders with some practice.
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File Type: jpg 624_3.jpg (81.4 KB, 57 views)
File Type: jpg 696a.jpg (149.4 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg Alaskan3.jpg (129.6 KB, 63 views)
File Type: jpg Alaskan-target.jpg (41.0 KB, 48 views)
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iggy View Post
Clang444
I think I've got your gun's cousin. Born in 1913. It did a little time in His Majesty's service.
Different cylinder and barrel, and now its a .45 Colt.

It don't beller, don't kick, light to pack, and still packs a purty good punch.
Iggy
that is sweet !!!!
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Old 05-24-2014, 09:33 PM
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Did someone say "SNUBBIE",..
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:05 PM
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great snubs, everyone!!!

696-1 and 625-3...
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Old 05-24-2014, 11:29 PM
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Old 05-25-2014, 12:15 AM
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Default 3" guns

Did some one say 3" hand cannons! Yes sir, gots me a couple!

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Old 05-25-2014, 12:45 AM
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These two are not smiths, but do carry and shoot quite well.
I do wish smith had made some like this instead of the Governor. At only 24oz. loaded, think 45 Colt airweight!

Titanium

Ultralite

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Old 05-26-2014, 09:55 AM
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a couple of nice 45 colts.

A titanium AND an ultra lite. I've handled a titanium but not an ultra lite. My understanding is the ultra lite is only 2 oz heavier than the titanium.

Best of both portability and power.

If the OP shops around I'm sure they can find something to fit their need.

Dave
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Old 05-26-2014, 11:20 AM
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Dave the ultralite is 20 ounces, just 0.2 ounces heavier, so basically the same. I carry that one often, as it cost me about 1/3 the price of the titanium. I shoot them both regularly though, as I do most of what I own. I stupidly passed on an all stainless one a couple of years ago, still kick myself for that decision. I do have one in 41mag, now that is a hoot to shoot!
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