Being a big fan of the 41 Magnum, I purchased a NIB current model 57. Shot like a dream...then I cleaned it. Used Hoppes on bore and cylinder charging holes and CLP on rest of gun. Immediately notice the bluing coming of the cylinder. Did not know what caused this. Called S&W customer service and was told they changed their bluing process and not to use Hoppes 9 as it will remove the finish. I have been using Hoppes for as many years as I can remember and never had a problem with my blued Smiths. I was absolutely dumb struck looking at my brand new, very expensive 57. The rest of the 57, entire frame was just like new. I sent it off to S&W for review of what happened and what I can do. Currently my other 41 is the Scandium/Titanium 4 inch that shoots like a dream. I know that the titanium cylinder can be an issue for cleaning, but I have not had a problem in several years of use. Being careful with most things I do, cant quite accept this mistake. Still a fan of Smith as I have several and will continue to shoot and clean as Smith informs me. Thanks for listening.

That's just crazy!
If that really is the case in the bluing change, it would seem the least they should have done would be to include a disclaimer as such in their instructions/new owner pamphlet.
Most of us have been using that product for eons.

The sound you just heard was my jaw hitting the floor.

If indeed S&W has made their current blued models so fragile that Hoppes 9 will strip the bluing that easily... that is just unconscionable.

So what does S&W condone using... Johnson's baby soap?

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Wow. I can't believe they would use a bluing process like that. I can't see me buying one.

What are they using, cold blue?

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Keep on Chooglin'

I was told by a friend who owns an Italian single action (can't recall the mgr..) anyway, they told him that their 'charcoal blue' premium option should never be cleaned with Hoppes #9 because it will remove/deteriorate the bluing. I wonder if S&W is using something similar....and WHY. Anxious for more info on this one.
J

Where are the pics?

I don't know for sure but I think that the old way of blueing is like freon. They found a more environment friendly less efficient process.

Wow, With so many blue guns, this post scares the cra* out of me !
What's safe and recomended these days ????????????

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'I know nothing'.. Sgt. Shultz

Yes preferably the no tears fragrance free kind.

Certainly, this must be an April Fools Joke!

I would think dehydrated water would be safe?

This is a sad story. I've use Hoppes #9 on about all finishes of guns, even very carefully in the bore and chambers of a nickel plated gun, without problems.

Hopefully this problem gets resolved.

John
Scoundrel and Ne'er-Do-Well in Training

I have a question, independent of the multitude of evident side issues: Does the manual mention the Hoppes problem? I recently purchased a Governor, and have neither fired nor cleaned it. As soon as I can, I'm headed to the manual to see what it says . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

At the risk of running afoul of the rules against bashing the new production guns..... The best advice is to purchase an older M57 and shoot it and clean it as we always have.

Remember the early M16s? No need to clean them because they didn't need it, so they didn't even supply things like a bore brush or cleaning rod. And when they all started failing in the jungle, the early fix was chrome plating. Finally the military gave in and began supplying traditional cleaning tools.

No the maker produces a product that won't hold up to cleaning. This has been a process over at least the last 15+ years. The titanium cylinder will always have burn stains. Before that it took heroic lengths to clean a stainless gun. Maybe us old guys are wrong. Guns weren't made to be cleaned. Just shoot until it seizes up and then buy a new one.

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Dick Burg

That's like making a car you aren't supposed to clean with water...

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Proud anachronism

I did not take a picture prior to sending it to S&W. Maybe I should have...The bluing was so weak it literally came off with just a light wiping. The S&W representative explained this process in detail and I was so caught off guard, I could literally not respond. I tried to explain that does not make sense and maybe this one was just improperly processed. He said no that's just the way they are made. This one had the bright blue or what ever it is called. I personally was going to buy the 25 and 27, now I wish I never bought this one let alone compound my situation. The rep blamed the EPA new standards, but still why would they produce something so poor. I still hold out hope that this was a poor quality control issue. I does not seem that way. Time will tell as they will have it back this Thursday. He also stated that rebluing was back logged for at least 7 months. I was caught off guard and was in such disbelief I was left speechless. Oh well, I still have many stainless models which I appreciate. Thanks once again.

Is this a joke? I cannot believe this is a legitimate issue! Surely not!

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Old paratrooper in NC

I have a model 18-7 which I believe is a 2012 gun and I used Hoppe's on it with zero issues.

James

If this truly is what we have come to it must be the beginning of the end. When I bought my first S&W in 1969 I used to clean it and leave it wrapped in a rag that contained enough Hoppe's Nr. 9 that I never worried about it corroding in the humid Indiana summers - and it never did. The finish of that gun still looks like new today, with the exception of the ordinary user-caused wear and tear (where it touched its holster).

I hope S&W can get your 57 back in decent shape for you. Maybe it was just a poor prep job and it will be better when it comes back? I sure hope so.

If this is indeed the case I would suspect EPA involvement.

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Stay safe people!

Was it really bluing, or some kind of paint/coating? Like the "blue" aluminum frame guns.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

Very sorry to hear that, you must be crushed.
Hopefully S&W will somehow make this right for you.

Not being able to use Hoppes 9 to clean a quality firearm is akin to being told your new cars paint will come off if you take it to a car wash.

Thank you for sharing this information with us, as painful as it is.

If worse comes to worst, send it to Fords for a re-blue.

Let us know what happens.

Well here is the owner's manual. Read page 32: http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...08-15-2013.pdf

I bought a 36 3" heavy barrel from a gun shop that had a fire. It had been exposed to water and steam so the finish was trashed. I wanted it for a beater carry gun, glass beaded then Parkerized. The frame took the finish fine but on the barrel and cylinder the finish just washed off. Repeated the process and the same thing happened. The barrel and cylinder seem to be some type of stainless definitely not carbon steel. This is a late production IL model.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I have had the same thing happen and I was sick, still am. I cleaned the cylinder on my Model 57-5 Mountain Gun that I purchased new (I think in 2009) and removed some of the bluing from it. I was using Winchester Super X bore cleaner on the barrel and charge holes in the cylinder, and Hoppes #9 on the outside of the cylinder and frame. The bluing only came off of the cylinder as I was rubbing a little hard due to a long day at the range and some lead residue. I have stayed away from Hoppes on nickel but have used it on blue for 20 years. I did not call Smith and Wesson because frankly I have not even wanted to think about it. I love that weapon and will keep and shoot it no matter the finish, but am curious to see if they remedy it for the OP. Best of luck sir.

Well, Hoppe's is an ammoniated solvent . . . I guess they really mean that particular sentence. Of course, at the risk of thread drift, there are two paragraphs highlighted in red with exclamation points at the bottom of page 32 that are regularly violated . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Hopefully they will see the point in that fact. I have a new old stock, never fired, 57, 4" that is not going to see any Hoppe's.

Anybody know the date that the change in the bluing process took place?

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NRA Benefactor Member

Definitely much more difficult to get a durable black on stainless. But I wonder why the rest of the revolver is carbon steel? Makes matching the finishes even more difficult!

I was shocked when I found this. I don't know when they changed their manufacturing process. It is going to the factory for a broken hammer pin. I am going to send a letter questioning this. I assumed I was buying a carbon steel revolver like they had been made for years.

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I've got the new model 29 classic. Wonder if I'm in the same boat? Got me scared now!

I CALLED S&W AFTER READING THIS POST SINCE I'VE JUST PURCHASED A NEW CLASSIC M57. SURE ENOUGH, I WAS TOLD THAT HOPPES #9 HAD THE POTENTIAL TO DAMAGE THE FINISH IF USED IMPROPERLY (WHATEVER THAT MEANS?) I ASKED IF THEY COULD SUGGEST A SAFE SOLVENT FOR USE & WAS TOLD THAT S&W RECOMMENDS HOPPES "ELITE" CLEANING SOLVENT. I HOPE THIS IS OF SOME HELP TO THOSE WHO HAVE PURCHASED A NEW S&W. AFTER CHECKING OUT THIS PRODUCT ON MIDWAY'S WEBSITE, THE REVIEWS OF THIS PRODUCT WERE VERY POSITIVE & MOST RATED IT AS AN IMPROVEMENT OVER THE OLDER HOPPE'S #9 SOLVENT. I PLACE AN ORDER FOR IT & INTEND TO TRY IT OUT.

I bought a Classic 29-10 a couple years back and use nothing but Hoppe's 9 on it, no problems. Now, I smell something, and it's not roses.

I've never seen a bottle of Hoppe's Elite, anywhere, so perhaps they oughta supply one with new guns? Crapiola, this is redden ing my buttocks, Hoppe's, probably the largest selling and most common cleaning fluid in the world, unsuitable for one of the largest handgun manufacturers in the world? Makes no sense whatsoever.

Did hoppes change there formula?

I use only the orginal USGI RIFLE BORE CLEANER
I cleaned the bore on my m58 very sparsely using it. I didn't spill a drop on the finish with a mop. I just wiped out the bore.

On my rifles and stainless revolvers it never hurt the finish.

I only have one new s&w in blue that I may trade in on a python. Maybe, I hate to do it.

Do we need to pull the grips and do a solvent test?

very odd indeed....

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

If this was actually a problem do you really think this would be the first time we had heard about it? The new guns have been out for a while, I'd expect dozens of instances. I either think something was wrong with the blued finish on this gun to begin with or a key part of the story is being left out.

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Mark

Yep.... like "Larry the Cable Guy" says: "makes no sense at all, it's like wiping before you poop".

S&W needs to be more forthright in the owners guide about it, and not add to their already overburdened repair queue with owners sending in their Hoppes #9 damaged guns in.

Plus.... if being an ammoniated solvent is the issue, there is a long list of other gun/bore cleaners in addition to Hoppes #9 sitting on shelves just waiting to do their deed.

Out of curiosity, I did an internet search on "ammoniated bore solvent" just to see how many are out there, interestingly enough... the search results included a posting that appeared on The Firing Line forum from back in 2007, discussing the use of Hoppe's #9 on M&P pistols due to the warning in the Instruction Manual.

So that got me thinking... when the heck did S&W start putting that warning in the instruction manual?

Well... in the collection of manuals I've accumulated along the years buying these things, I found one from 2005 that I got with a 3rd gen pistol. It has the ammoniated/strong alkaline solvent warning, along with this pearl of wisdom no longer in the current manual:

"As a rule of thumb, if you would be comfortable applying the solvent of your choice to the finish of your automobile, it will probably be safe for use on your firearm"

So like allergy testing, I'm heading out to my garage to put droplets of various gun cleaners on the trunk lid of my car and wait to see which ones lift the paint...

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Traditional bluing salts when depleted are a tough commodity to get rid of. EPA regulations, Haz Mat , profit margins and all that stuff.

So they are now most likely using some sort of bluing process that is simply weaker. Or reacts to Hoppes #9.

Once they halt bluing they will be epoxy painted. A few gun manufacturers have done this.

Let's not jump to s&w being the problem yet.

Did you contact hoopes? Maybe a bad batch?

What solvent should we use?

The solution is not to buy any blued S&W since the era of the lock started. If the customers react in a way that cuts their profits then they will consider a more robust alternative.

I don't care about the loc. My new s&w revolvers feel the same as my older revolvers. The actions feel the same. It's still the same s&w quality.

Yup once the revolver sales drop they could stop manufacturing them and just sell pistols.
This has started already with some models not in production today. We lose not s&w.

Colt offers nothing in DA revolvers. Ruger offers nothing in larger caliber revolvers so we're going to hurt the only gun manufacturer who still offers the revolver line up and still offers the classics. If we lose what s&w offers today in all there REVOLVERS that would be a very sad day. I have autos but I'd rather shoot my revolvers loc or no loc. If we didn't purchase a new s&w what brand of "revolver" would you purchase that's still made in the USA?

With a 100% lifetime warranty?

Ya let's hurt s&w that's a great idea? "NOT"

If (and I say if because it has yet to be specifically determined/verified what the exact cause of the bluing loss is) the current bluing method is not holding up, it's not the same S&W quality.

100% lifetime warranty... yeah right.

Tell that to the owners of out of production S&W products (which includes me) with the so called "lifetime" warranty, that cannot get issues addressed due to parts no longer being available, as in the situation with 3rd Generation pistols.

Ruger offers nothing in larger caliber revolvers? I guess the DA Redhawk revolvers in .44 Magnum and .454 Casull doesn't qualify?

I'm sorry... but if S&W stops producing revolvers because of a sales slump resulting from consumers voting with their wallets because they are unhappy with what S&W is producing, then it's shame on S&W... not on the consumer, for not wanting to acquiesce for something less because it's better than nothing.

If the issue is related to having to comply with a new EPA regulation regarding bluing salt composition or process, then S&W is not alone, and we should start to or be seeing the same issues taking place with the other US gun manufacturers... if not, then S&W needs to go ask them how they are managing to pull off.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

Carbonia Blue.....Nuff' said.

Two, "2" rugers offered. How many s&w?

If you're just limiting yourself to USA made DA revolvers... I didn't mention any Ruger SA revolvers. Two is more than "nothing".

Look... all I'm saying is there are other viable revolvers in the market place, and despite being bad mouthed here a lot because it's an S&W forum, Taurus can not be denied as a threat to S&W.

And S&W must have also view it that way too, coming out with the "Governor" after the Taurus "Judge" was out.

I love my S&W's, but my gun buying universe doesn't revolve (no pun intended... but not bad either ) around them to the point of willing to accept something like a tired and true, common as dirt gun cleaner, having an affect like it did on a new gun as the OP reported... as a result of a possible change in the bluing process.

I'm not willing to blow something shy of grand on a blued revolver if a $3-5 bottle of gun cleaner will do it in.

A stainless Model 69... now that's a different story. If and when they get approved for sale in CA... I'm camping out on someone's door step waiting for the doors to open.

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Conrad
SWCA #1830 SWHF #222

I don't think it is the bluing process but the funky alloy they are using to manufacture the cylinder and barrel. It doesn't accept the standard blueing process, so it has some type of surface coating. Which might be alright if S&W would have told us they were no longer using carbon steel like the guns we have bought for years.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

I'd go for that but from what I understand, even S&W doesn't have the formula for their own original Bright Blue.

Bruce

Using an in the pants holster I noticed the body sweat can tarnish stainless and nickel plating during the hotter months of ccw carry. This means no finish is safe or better than the other. I do prefer a epoxy painted pistol during the extreme hot weather carry.

I just repaired a tiny spot of surface rust on my new/used never shot s&w 29-10. My process of using cold bluing blended in perfectly. You can hardley see it. I believe it was there when I purchased it for $699 with the presentation case.

Ok we need to know an answer on this?

Is it the solvent?

Is it a change in the bluing process?

I just retired 10 years ago from one of the top ten engineering groups in the world. Worked in the world headquarters engineering lab. We did R&D ne product development, life testing, accident investigations. We also did outside vendors product testing for reliability.
My point is I'm sure s&w has an r&d lab and your solvent manufacturer has a test lab too. There probably not talking when I think they should be?
I think if they did talk together then we would be better advised on what solvent to use? What solvents not to use?