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06-21-2014, 11:59 AM
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Cylinder chamfer Disaster
Greetings Gentleman,
I am a new member in need of your expert advice!
My worst nightmare Has come true, I finally found (2) S&W
Model 625's of my dreams only to have a Gunsmith "Destroy"
The cylinders on both guns by doing a Chamfer Job ....using
a "Dremel Tool". One is a 625-2 5" 1988 and the other a 625-3 3" 1989. Both in beautiful condition (were). My question is... How do I go about replacing the Cylinders? They are NOT salvageable! Should I sent the pistols to S&W or have a reputable Smith do the work?
Could use some help here guys!
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06-21-2014, 12:07 PM
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Welcome to the Forum, albeit under such trying conditions. Since a gunsmith already ruined the 625s, I might contact the factory to see if parts are available. Others more experienced than I will provide more helpful and detailed advice.
I am interested, however, in the condition of the chambers on BOTH guns that led you to have them chamfered.
Good luck.
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06-21-2014, 12:25 PM
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That's unfortunate. Can you post pics?
Sounds more like a hacksmith than gunsmith. Lots of good guns have been ruined/damaged by some fool with a dremel not knowing what they're doing.
Welcome to the forum.
Last edited by jack the toad; 06-21-2014 at 12:30 PM.
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06-21-2014, 12:36 PM
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The condition of both were excellent, the 625-2 factory test
rounds only, the 625-3 maybe only a handful.
I went with the Chamfer Job to accommodate the use of .45acp
with the moon clips. Never expected anything more than a shallow 45 degree angle. Certainly not out-of-round, multiple
Angle, hand cut chamfers!
Live and Learn!
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06-21-2014, 12:41 PM
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Pictures? Please?
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06-21-2014, 12:49 PM
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Guys, bear with me please ....not familiar with the website.
I am working on a photo. Thanks
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06-21-2014, 12:54 PM
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attn Bad Apple
Take your time. We're only looking to help, not criticize. Not a good time for you, we're aware.
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06-21-2014, 12:57 PM
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a way to salvage?
One way to salvage this, since you want to go to moon clips, is to send the cylinders to TKcustom.com. He machines recesses in the cylinders anyway and may be able to take just a bit off. Worth a try!
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06-21-2014, 01:08 PM
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I encourage everyone to send their guns to S&W for chamfering. The last time I sent one the charge was 30.00 dollars-well worth the time and shipping IMHO.
Last edited by amazingflapjack; 06-22-2014 at 03:48 PM.
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06-21-2014, 01:41 PM
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Sorry for not sending the picture...I am using an IPad and
it will not send to the forum.
Guys, I appreciate your help! I guess the best thing to do is
contact Smith and Wesson and see what can be done!
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06-21-2014, 03:36 PM
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Welcome
Welcome, thought I'm sorry it' under such cruddy circumstances. More and more anyone calling themselves a 'gunsmith' means less and less. Since somebody has really 'fixed' themI would really advise sending them to S&W but the problem that turn around times are very long. But if you can find a true pistol smith I'd at least ask them. Since they would have to get parts sending it back to S&W might not look so bad in turn around time.
PS Oh my lord that hurts to hear that. I can only imagine how you must feel. Oh, and since you will be without guns for a while, you need to buy a back up.
Last edited by rwsmith; 06-21-2014 at 03:38 PM.
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06-21-2014, 03:47 PM
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Please send your revolvers back to S&W where you can be sure they will be properly repaired and returned to original specifications. You don't need any more hassles. Just send them back, find something else to play with for a while, and wait. "It's going to be a while," as they say.
Too late now, but honestly, only friendly advice >>> NEVER trust your firearms to a gunsmith unless you know his abilities and have personally seen the quality of his work in the specific area of expertise you require. Gunsmiths run the gamut from blind-and-insane to those capable of the most beautiful work imaginable. You have to know who's who. Finally, as with anything else, if a price seems too good to be true, you can be assured it is. Gunsmiths who do good work are NEVER cheap.
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06-21-2014, 03:57 PM
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I will never understand the desire to make a particular firearm do something it wasn't originally designed to do . . .
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06-21-2014, 03:58 PM
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To the OP...
Just curious, did the "gunsmith" that perpetrated this monstrosity have a milling machine or even a drill press?
I'm not a gunsmith so I can't see anyone with a lick of sense using a dremel to chamfer charge holes and expect anything good out of it.
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06-21-2014, 04:04 PM
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You say they "are NOT salvageable",can you load rounds into the chambers with moon clips? I bought a 625 years ago that someone had done what you are talking about,the only real problem I had was that i could not fire 45 AR in the revolver due to the depth of the chamfer but the revolver would shoot 45 ACP with moon clips.Just so I could shoot 45AR in mine I sent the revolver back to Smith and they fitted a new cylinder.I forget the cost and this was 3 years back.
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06-21-2014, 04:10 PM
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If you want to email me your pics I'll post them here.
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06-21-2014, 05:50 PM
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Guys, the picture of the 625-2 should be posted by one of the Forum members being nice enough to assist me. I only wish I had found this forum sooner, there is a world of info here. Downside is this thing is like a drug....addictive!!!
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06-21-2014, 07:00 PM
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625 cylinder
Sir
I have a very nice 625 cylinder listed for sale on the appropriate forum.
Thanks
Kelly
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06-21-2014, 07:12 PM
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I know this is a day late and a dollar short, but never trust a "gunsmith" with a well used Dremel tool.
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06-21-2014, 07:18 PM
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06-21-2014, 07:33 PM
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Alright, here's the picture.
[S&W 625-2 Model 1988]
I would take it back to the guy who did that. He needs to make right what he messed up!
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Last edited by JJEH; 06-21-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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06-21-2014, 07:42 PM
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The guy who did that work was NOT a gunsmith. You should publish his name and location so others won't suffer the same consequences you did.
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06-21-2014, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JJEH
Alright, here's the picture.
[S&W 625-2 Model 1988]
I would take it back to the guy who did that. He needs to make right what he messed up!
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I gotta tell you. It is possible that I would take a swing at that "gunsmith" when he handed those back to me . . .
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06-21-2014, 07:46 PM
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You make a good point about publishing his name, but
Is that ethical?
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06-21-2014, 07:47 PM
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There is the correct tool for doing chamfering. That was not it.
Ouch.
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Take your time..quickly.
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06-21-2014, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
You make a good point about publishing his name, but
Is that ethical?
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If you wrote him a bad check for the work, would he put your name on the marquee out front?
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06-21-2014, 07:50 PM
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Sorry for your loss. Hacks like that should not be allowed within 100 feet of a gun.
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06-21-2014, 07:50 PM
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Well guys the sad thing is he had both my 625's at the same
Time! The other is in the same condition...its a 625-3 3"
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06-21-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
You make a good point about publishing his name, but
Is that ethical?
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Would it be ethical to not publish his name?
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06-21-2014, 07:52 PM
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I am not sure what the big deal is, the gun isn't ruined. I bet if you brought it to a proper gunsmith they could clean it up with a countersink bit. Heck the S&W performance center does it with a countersink mounted in a drillpress!
Chris
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06-21-2014, 07:58 PM
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A gunsmith using a dremel to chamfer chambers? There's a tool much like a valve seat cutting tool to do that job.
That reminds me of a "mechanic" crawling under the front of my truck with a torch to do an alignment.
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06-21-2014, 07:59 PM
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I'm pretty sure that I could clean those up on the mill with the proper sized countersink. Take them to a local machine shop and see if they can't salvage them. They don't need to be cut any deeper. But do need to be centered and cleaned up some. If cut for moonclips, it would probably clean them up and they could be re cut at the same time.
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06-21-2014, 08:02 PM
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I am listening to al you advice guys, thanks
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06-21-2014, 08:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by epj
I'm pretty sure that I could clean those up on the mill with the proper sized countersink. Take them to a local machine shop and see if they can't salvage them. They don't need to be cut any deeper. But do need to be centered and cleaned up some. If cut for moonclips, it would probably clean them up and they could be re cut at the same time.
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This is frustrating. My gunsmith doesn't do brake jobs, and my machine shop doesn't do gunsmithing.
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06-21-2014, 08:10 PM
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First, make sure you'll get your money back. Then go out and look for a gunsmith and ask for advice. There are many revolver professionals out there and I'm sure they can help you out. Just make sure non of your family/friends will ever put a foot in that guys business.
Ask here for recommendations, this board is full of knowledge and camaraderie.
Another idea is to look through the members here:
http://www.americanpistol.com/guild_members_list.php
Contacting the S&W Performance Center never hurts.
You can also call Gerry Reeder. Some people don't like his work but he's a revolver guy after all.
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Last edited by JJEH; 06-21-2014 at 08:27 PM.
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06-21-2014, 08:14 PM
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EPJ....the only problem with milling the cyl. Holes again is there
Is not much extracter left bettween cylinders!
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06-21-2014, 08:18 PM
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Again, I would contact S&W. There's been enough agonizing and heartbreak by the OP to trust it to someone other than the 'mother ship,' no matter how skilled. The OP, Bad Apple, is really at sixes and sevens here to consider so many possible solutions. What does it matter how long S&W takes, if it is done correctly. Forget about ethics and publication of names, etc. Let's get those 2 nice guns properly put in order.
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06-21-2014, 08:19 PM
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I have had a couple of guns back to Smith to chamfer the chambers and it looks like they used some sort of hand tool like a Dremel to do it. The chamfers are oblong and steep. I would never cut them that much. But they seem to work, so no big deal.
Those are ugly and need to be cleaned up, but the cylinders may be salvagable. It looks more steep than wide. You did not state the caliber, so I assume .45 ACP, which means that they are already sized for moon clips, so no help there. Find some AR brass and see if they will extract. If so, the cylinder is not ruined, just ugly. I believe I would have to go back and try to get him to buy you two new cylinders.
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06-21-2014, 08:29 PM
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Kaaskop49 has a valid point....I agree with you!
I will send them back to S&W to be treated with the respect they deserve! As for the "Gunsmith" hopefully none of you will venture his way! ( he is a revolver SPECIALEST)
Thanks guy
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06-21-2014, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
EPJ....the only problem with milling the cyl. Holes again is there
Is not much extracter left bettween cylinders!
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I wouldn't suggest removing much more material, but rather trying to clean up what's there. The only potential problem is creating too much unsupported case. Since the .45 is such a low pressure round that's not too much of a concern as long as the camfer isn't too deep. They do need to be a bit more concentric and a lot smoother.
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06-21-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
( he is a revolver SPECIALEST)
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No, he's not.
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06-21-2014, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
The condition of both were excellent, the 625-2 factory test
rounds only, the 625-3 maybe only a handful.
I went with the Chamfer Job to accommodate the use of .45acp
with the moon clips. Never expected anything more than a shallow 45 degree angle. Certainly not out-of-round, multiple
Angle, hand cut chamfers!
Live and Learn!
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I must be missing something. Aren't 625's set up for use with moon clips with .45acp and chambered for .45ar? There would be no need to chamfer the charging holes. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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06-21-2014, 09:01 PM
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That is unreal. Gunsmith?
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06-21-2014, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
This is frustrating. My gunsmith doesn't do brake jobs, and my machine shop doesn't do gunsmithing.
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This is not frustrating, it's some of the most common sense and cost efficient advice offered to the O/P so far. Any trained machinist should be able to fix the problem.
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06-21-2014, 09:17 PM
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Well it ain't pretty, but if I was using moon clips all the time I'd shoot it and not worry about it. Maybe have a new cylinder made up if I thought about trading in the future, but for now I'd just lick my wounds and move on.
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06-21-2014, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old bear
This is not frustrating, it's some of the most common sense and cost efficient advice offered to the O/P so far. Any trained machinist should be able to fix the problem.
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What do you figure the S&W fellows think about your garden variety machinist working on their firearms?
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06-21-2014, 09:25 PM
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THROW 2 MORE ON THE PILE.
For GODS sake, PLEASE leave VERY GOOD alone unless absolutely needed. Another example of "if you keep playing with it, you will break it for sure". I see it EVERY week. Guys that just HAVE TO lighten that trigger 1 more ounce, and end up with a gun that won't ignite primers. Whether you should take treasures to "A REPUTABLE SMITH", as opposed to a hack like you found? You're kidding right? Sorry for your loss, & sure hope that guy didn't have the nerve to try and charge you for that butchery. He owes you money for damages. I believe we have a few Lawyers on the site.
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06-21-2014, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
What do you figure the S&W fellows think about your garden variety machinist working on their firearms?
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I wish to think, the average Smith and Wesson owner is experienced and SMART enough to realize that the gunsmith trade is simply a specialized subsection of the machinist/metalworkers art.
I wish you a good evening.
Added- Well, I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
Last edited by old bear; 06-22-2014 at 10:21 AM.
Reason: Removed tacky comment and added more info.
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06-21-2014, 09:39 PM
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Banned
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Apple
Well guys the sad thing is he had both my 625's at the same
Time! The other is in the same condition...its a 625-3 3"
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Oh No! Not 625-3 3"......
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06-21-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by old bear
I wish to think, the average Smith and Wesson owner is experienced and SMART enough to realize that the gunsmith trade is simply a specialized subsection of the machinist/metalworkers art.
I wish you a good evening and bless your heart.
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Having been to the Smith and Wesson Revolver Armorer's School in Springfield, and knowing more than one machinist, I can assure you that is not the case. Bless your heart, and good luck . . .
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