Can anyone who actually owns a 929 speak to how difficult it is to get cases out when not using a moon clip?

I understand that 9mm is a rimless cartridge, and that the ejector will not work without a moon clip.

My question is: Without a moon clip, will some of the cases just shake out, or come out "easily" with fingernails, or do the cases need to be poked out one at a time with a tool?

I know moon clips are great, but not for me. I like 9mm for the cheaper ammo, but if I must, I'll stick with a rimmed caliber.

Moon clips are required. They are not an option. Same for the the Model 986.

Thanks, Tanzer.

I have heard that previously. I have also seen conflicting statements. I can see from the pictures on the S&W web site that there is a step in the cylinder bore, presumably to headspace the cartridge. Perhaps this has another purpose?

No experience with the 9mm revolvers, but have a Model 25-2 45acp I've owned for 30 years. I have shot this pistol with both half and full moon clips and at times with no clip.

Shooting GI ball, most of the time just opening the cylinder and shaking it would drop the empties. If any failed to drop, a flick of the fingernail did the trick. However, with the higher pressure and smaller diameter of the 9mm, cases might be a bit more sticky.

Try it and see. Can't hurt.

P.S. I THINK Federal makes a rimmed version of the 9mm, called 9mm Federal. Similar to the 45 Auto Rim for the 45acp revolvers. (Something I never bothered with, since 45acp ball was MUCH cheaper back then)

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Mama, take this badge offa me

You are unlikely to get reliable ignition without moonclips. Those rounds that do fire will require a pencil or some type of rod to extract.

You are correct in assuming the shoulder in the chamber is there for headspacing purposes. However, since SAAMI sets the specs for cartridge dimensions, the shoulder is placed at maximum case length depth for a given caliber. My experience has been that any factory ammo or brass, when new, is always considerably less than this dimension - meaning that, in reality, headspacing on that shoulder, by the case mouth, seldom actually occurs.

What does happen is that variances in chamber roundness, smoothness, cleanliness and other variables, will hold some cartridges firmly enough that a firing pin strike will ignite the primers. Others are driven forward in the chamber, which results in a light primer strike and a failure to ignite.

Just as some rounds are held tightly enough for ignition and others are driven forward, some cases may drop out of the cylinder from gravity, while others may be "pluckable" and yet others will have to be poked out using a rod.

You should consider moon clips essential for any revolver that is chambered for a rimless or semi-rimmed round. The other alternative is using the rimmed version of that round, if one exists.

Moon clips are the greatest thing since sliced bread and your aversion to them is, most likely, founded in falsehoods found on the Internet or from people who either have no personal experience, or just a passing experience with them. In order to fully utilize, and fully enjoy, them requires the right tool(s) to load and unload the clips. For any 8-round revolver, the ultimate moon clip tool, which both loads and unloads the clips, is the BMT. You may balk at the cost ($80) - but consider what you just spent for the gun - isn't spending that extra little bit to insure full enjoyment from your investment worth it?

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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I have a 625PC 45acp, and find it about 99% reliable without moon clips, 100% with. I don't mess with 45 Auto Rim because they are tough to find and expensive, ACP is fine.

I have a 929 on order. When it arrives I'll undoubtely play with it......a bunch.....including with/without clips. But I'm with Pizza Bob, think moonclips are great. In addition to the 625PC, which is one of my favorite and most frequently used revolvers, I have an 8-shot 627 which is cut for clips. The latter is a 38/357, so works fine with our without, but the clips are a great convenience. And yes, having the right tool makes the whole process pretty painless.

Thanks everyone for your excellent responses, and willingness to help a new guy!

Some background to my question: I’m trying to decide between a 627 or waiting for a 929 for a range gun. I expect to fire over 10,000 rnds, so the small price delta between 9mm and 38 Special becomes a big deal. Since it is not for personal defense, reliability only needs to be high enough to not be annoying.

My wish to avoid moon clips is purely irrational. I find loading an auto pistol’s magazine to be slightly bothersome, but loading cartridges directly into a revolver’s cylinder, with no intermediate steps, to be great fun. I can’t explain why, but I really want that small joy.

Thanks for pointing out that variations in case length will result in play, resulting in increased potential for light strikes. Of course, even with rimmed cartridges, there is some play. I wonder how big the 9mm length tolerance is? Too much, and auto pistols could have a similar problem. I understand that a pistol’s extractor may hold the cartridge close to the breech face, but too much of this variation could result in the extractor not engaging, or in having to be designed with such a loose axial fit that the play problem still exists.

It’s also a good point that 9mm runs much higher pressure than 45 ACP, so the 929 could be more temperamental when it comes to getting the cases out. I understand that a definitive answer is impossible, given variation in chamber diameter, roughness, cleanliness, cartridge diameter, taper, etc…

MTKTM, please let me know how your 929 turns out!

I too am amazed at the number of folks that don't like, or haven't/won't try, moon clips.

If one values a speedy and positive reload, NOTHING else compares.

Otherwise, there are plenty of other options in rimmed calibers, including the M627 .357/.38, which can be used with or without moon clips.

My recommendation is that you buy the 627. It will fire everything from .38 Short Colt to .357 Magnum, with or without moonclips, with complete reliability. It offers much greater flexibility and reliability than anything 9mm based. The new 9mm revolvers are not designed to function without moonclips. Properly boring a 9mm cylinder to chamber loose rounds requires a lot of time, effort and care and S&W is no longer up to the task.

Dave Sinko

I don't know if they make them for that model or not. RIMZ poly moon clips. I like them for 45ACP. No tools required. Bob

Thanks. That is how I'm leaning: 627 5". Or dare I say it, a GP100 6" if I go the cheaper route. Or a 686 Plus 6".

You won't know until you try it.

There is no substitute for direct experience!

*although we may avoid some discomfort and learn from the mistakes of others

I'll share some experience I've had so far.

1) A-Zooms and Tipton Snap-Caps fit really loosely in the 929 moon clip. They're so loose it is hard to load the cylinder because the rounds fall out of the clip at the slightest touch.

2) I am having a lot of trouble loading the moon clip with actual 9mm live cartridges. I'm going to go to the range with a pencil and try shooting my 929 without the clip - if there is a trick to loading the moon clip without a tool, I haven't figured it out yet.

Does anyone have any advice on good moon clip loading & de-mooning tools?

Just got back from the range. The 929 will not fire without moon clips. I tried a couple different brands of ammo and there wasn't even a scratch on the primers.

Just thought I'd share some more info.

I ordered a pack of TK Custom moon clips and loaded those up for my next range trip.

I don't have a moonclip tool yet but I have one on order.

Loading aluminum cased ammo is fairly easy, I can do a whole clip by hand.

With brass cased ammo I can load most of the clip by hand but I need to use an Irwin bar-grip to load the last round, I just can't get the last round in there using just my thumb.

Steel-cased ammo is next to impossible to load in the moon clips. I had to use a bar grip, even on the first round and the last round was seriously a PITA. I only loaded one clip with Wolf ammo because it is so difficult and I'm not looking forward to de-mooning that clip either.

I took delivery of my new 929 two days ago. It came with only 1 moon clip. That clip is tight and tough to load. Since I have already had several 38/.357 moon clips on hand from a M327 I decided to try them. Well the rounds fit very loosely but I did get them on and tried them on the cylinder. Fit the cylinder just fine and appear to eject ok as well. But I won't know for sure until I get to the range later in the week. If it works, these clips would be good for informal range work.

Any style of moon clip loader will make loading the rounds effortless. Well worth the money.

Attached Images

DSC_0169.jpg (165.4 KB, 5004 views)

I've been shooting moon-clip revolvers in competition since 1990. My first was a model 625-2 and over the years many more 625s along with some 627s, a 610, a 646 and a custom built 686 converted to .38 Super.

One of the handiest tools for loading moon clips is needle-nose pliers. I won't try to describe how to use them but if anyone can't figure it out they're lost anyway.

My first demooner was dowel rod which fits into the empty brass. A glove on your off hand helps reduce wear and tear.

There's no substitute for jumping into the game and learning stuff as you go.

Enjoy!!

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

In the 929 moon clips are required. The cartridges just rattle around in the chamber without them.

I have a 1917, 25-2 and 940 and all can be fired without moon clips, but why? Loading a moon clip is like loading the magazine for your semi auto. Unloading the clip is no problem with most any of the tools Macinaw shows above. The 9mm are more of a chore to remove without moon clips as they work with higher pressure and therefore are somewhat tighter in the chamber after firing.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

And, who doesnt LOVE moonclips??

I bought a 929 last week and I can assure you that I do not love moon clips. Or should I say moon clip as it only came with one. I can't believe S&W sends 1 clip with a $1100 gun.

Ummm....you should PM Hearth and unless I miss my guess, he's Dave Hearth of Hearthco moonclips. I know from personal experience he makes great moonclips!!

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

I most certainly agree!

But does he still? I was under the impression that he abdicated all production to TK Custom. A lot (all?) Hearthco clips were EDM cut, whereas most (again, all?) of TK's are stamped. For my 627-4 PC (.38 Super) I found that the EDM cut clips from S&W (which I suspect are Hearthco / Hearthcos not TK / Hearthcos) work the best as far as holding the cartridges the most rigidly, aiding a fast reload. Tried TK's, Revolver Supply's (old & new design) and the S&W clips are the best. This is relevant as I understand the same clips can be used for the 929. Only downside is that they are $7 each.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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If you PM Hearth you may find he still sells clips, although direct sales seem to be from TK. I'd love some EDM cut clips for the 929, maybe time to try him again.

My TK custom stainless wire EDM moon clips say 627,929,.38 super.

Tom

I guess I should have sprung for the stainless clips them. I got the blued ones which are stamped. I guess that explains the cost difference.

One other option that you can do, that I did some time ago...

Have another cylinder fitted for almost any .357 (J, K or L frame), and have it cut for 9mm.

I've had this done and it seems to work well.

When I had it done some time ago, it was an act of congress to get two identical cylinders fitted to the same gun though. Don't know if it's any different today.

Then, you had to send off the cylinder and have it reamed to 9x23 and cut for moonclips. In an emergency, it is still possible to use 38/357 cartridges in it, but they do tend to swell a bit more as the O.D. of the 9mm case is a bit longer.

Here is a link to one that was done this way:
Some questions about the 9X23 Winchester

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Lost it all in a boat accident

Do your SS clips have the split arms or solid? On his website both the blue and stainless are shown with solid arms. He also goes on to say that the blued clips fit just like the stainless ones. I bought 10 blued clips to try and my experience was not great. I'll confess that I have a little bit of arthritis in my hands - but nothing an Aleve won't knock-down or that prevents me from shooting a match. It was almost impossible to load the cartridges into and extract the empties from the TK clip using a BMT tool - arguably the best tool on the market. Once the were inserted, the cartridges still exhibited a good deal of "flop". The S&W moons, with split arms, holds the ammo much more rigidly and it is far easier to load/unload the clips with the BMT.

Easy to see in the photos the difference in rigidity. The rounds are all Starline .38 Super brass.


Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Where did you get those SS clips? The loose fit of 9mm in the clips is my biggest complaint with the 929.

They aren't stainless - both the TK clips (on the left) and the S&W clips (on the right) are blued.

The S&W clips I bought from a private party, but they are still available from S&W (last time I looked). They are for the 627-4 PC, .38 Super.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Hmmm. I wonder if S&W still sells them? The single moonclip supplied with the 929 is a stamped TK custom.

Edit: Looks like they do but $6 and change each. Do they fit in the 929 and hold the 9mm cases well? Do you know the thickness?

I handled and came very close to buying a 929 just this past weekend. But I decided almost $1100 for a gun I didn't have a specific dedicated use for required some reflection. I have a 10 year-old 627 5" 8-shot, and also a 625PC, so am familiar with moon-clips and definitely find them to be a mixed bag for general shooting. If I were going to do a specific game where the capacity and light-weight cylinder gave me a leg up, heck, I'd buy it. I won't say that money is no object, but I could certainly afford the gun.

But I've decided that I'm happy/content with the 627 8-shot to fill this particular niche. It would be nice to be able to shoot 9x19 ammo, but 38s aren't a whole lot more expensive, and I prefer handloading 38s to futzing around with itzy-bitzy 9s. And I also like having the option to NOT use moon-clips with the 627, no need whatsoever. Even my 625PC will shoot 45ACP without them......most of the time, so I am mildly surprised that the 9 doesn't work that way, good to know, clinched it for me.

Let me make it clear that I do not have a 929, and the photos are of .38 Super ammo, not 9 mm. However, the clip manufacturers market the clips as fitting both calibers.

So I decided to see how some 9 mm ammo would fit in the S&W clips. I had some R-P 9mm ammo. The 9 mm fit horribly in those clips. Very loose almost to the point of falling out. Easily inserted and removed with fingers only. I should note that the arms on the S&W clips are shorter than those on the TK clips.

Tried the 9 mm in the TK clips, which were difficult in which to insert and remove the .38 Super ammo. Worked much better with the 9 mm. Still not rigid, but at least secure in the clips. May be acceptable for competition, even with the flop, due to the short cartridge length and RN bullet.

I think the only conclusion we can draw from this is that it will require a lot of trial & error with different clips and ammo to find which combination works best for you.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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Thanks for this - almost just bought a few to checkout.

Forget those other moonclip tools. Pony up the $80 and get a BMT moonclip loader/unloader. They are fast, and effortless. Drop the 8 cartridges in the tool, twist the knob and the moonclip is loaded. Unloading is just as easy.

http://www.bmtequipped.com/

You don't need to break the bank on moonclips. Try either Ranch Product moonclips or the moonclips from revolver supply company. The Hearthco clips are best saved for competition, where fractions of a second affect your position in the standings.

IMO, all revolvers should have been designed for moon clips. There is no faster way to load and empty them, and with the proper tool the clips are easy to load and empty. No speedloader is faster.

I do not disagree with this. But I would also say that all revolvers ought to be usable without them as well, that they shouldn't be mandatory.

I'm curious, I've never owned nor handled a 610, but were they usable without clips? I know that you'd have to use the clips if you were shooting 40s, but what about with 10mm?

The moonclip that I received with my 929 from Smith is the same as the blue stamped blue moon clip from TK.
The blue stamped moon clips work with all misc brass that I have tried. If you have special brass requirements call TK and they can help you out.

I have over 7k 0f REM 9mm brass that I will use for the 929. TK was able to send me the required EDM stainless moonclips to fit that brass. But the misc brass does not easily load in the Stainless moon clips (too tight) even with the BMT tool.

Tom

Post #6 in this thread applies to all rimless cartridges, which, of course, includes the 10 mm round.

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I'm getting several miss fires on my new 929
It has an extended firing pin
moon clips are .35 thick
useing federal primers
any sugestions

Assuming you are referring to light strikes?

Tighten your strain screw.

I could of sworn I've fired 10mm without moonclips in my 610, maybe I'm imagining things??

Me too!! Now I've got to get my 610s out and try it.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

@RYNO & S&WIowegan - it's quite possible that you did. Again, my post (#6) explains that phenomena. If you are just fooling around at the range, then have at it any way you wish But if you are using it for competition or defensive purposes, moon clips should be mandatory.

I really don't understand this aversion to moon clips - it's like wanting to forego the magazine and single load your semi-auto.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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The one and only clip that came with my 929 is a TK and it is so tight that it is almost impossible to load with 8 rounds. Last week I got my new set of 8 moonclips from RanchProducts and they are so easy to load up that I can just snap them in easily with my fingers. Factory ammo or reloads snap right in. No moonclip tool needed. I purchased them from UniqueTek.

I agree with you 100% about the BMT loader and demooner. I figure that because I have a Governor and if I want to shoot 45 acp then I should get a tool that is gonna work for a lot of uses. It was expensive but works so easy that I will for get the cost.
I used to load them by hand until the last round I would put it on a hard surface and press it in. I bought the pipe type demooner that works well but I am shocked how easy the BMT tool works. Worth it if you have to use them, pony up the bucks, you will like it.

My old SP101 could be shot without the moon clips. Just used a finger or fingernail to remove the empties. I saved the moonclips for serious work, no clips for the range. I can't imagine owning a revolver where I HAD to use the clips. After reading the thread I'm thinking I'm gonna pass on the 986.