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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 09-11-2014, 01:32 PM
329 329 is offline
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Default Cylinder gap question?

I cleand my 629 today and decided to check the cyliner to forcing cone gap. Interesting...as you look down on the gun with the barrel facing away from you the gap on the left side is .010 while the gap on the right side is .0015...yep .0015. If I push it back I can get it to .004 and the other side to .011. The gun shoots great, more accurate than me but is this something I should be concerned with. Being a double action I assume you want a bit more clearance?

Last edited by 329; 09-11-2014 at 01:36 PM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:41 PM
Camster Camster is offline
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I would imagine that the face could lead up and create a bind.
If the gun performs fine,that a vote for leaving it alone.Ideally,the cone should be more square,with a uniform gap.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:49 PM
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You haven't by chance hollywooded the gun (flipping the cylinder closed by snapping the gun to the side)? If so the yoke may be bent. Forcing cone should be square to the cylinder and have an even gap.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:03 PM
329 329 is offline
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No hollywood here. It is only a few weeks old, the yoke is not bent. I measured theoutside with calipers and came up with a .008-.009 difference when measuring from the end of the forcing cone to the end of the barrel so I am pretty sure the cone is cut on somewhat of an angle. I read the according to S$W the ideal distance is no less than .006 and no more than .010 measured when pulling the cyinder back toward the hammer. Mine measures .004 on one side and .011 on the other. I guess when I load up some lead bullets we'll see how it does. I guess you might be right Camster. If it aint broke... besides the last thing I want to do is send it back to s&W for service. No binding when shooing a hundred or so jacketed bullets. On the other extreem my FA97 gap cannot be measured with my feelers. The .0015 feeler will not go through

Last edited by 329; 09-11-2014 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:23 PM
Goblin Goblin is offline
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I've never measured them, but FA are the tightest gaps I've ever eyeballed.
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:29 PM
jimtr6 jimtr6 is offline
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Are you checking the gap while you have full lock-up, where the gun is empty the hammer is cocked, then released slowly with the trigger held back. Measure while the trigger is held. Since I'm certainly no expert, perhaps I've misunderstood the question or I'm just wrong (not the first time today).
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:43 PM
robertrwalsh robertrwalsh is offline
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I would be willing to bet that the gun spits like anything.
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Old 09-11-2014, 06:28 PM
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When you shoot it, if it's not a problem, then it's not a problem. I'd leave it alone. The good thing as the original owner, with the Lifetime Service Policy, you can send it back whenever you choose at no cost. If it's out-of-spec S&W will fix it.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:36 PM
scooter123 scooter123 is offline
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You really need to check this dimension with shims, a caliper is NOT the correct tool for doing this. The procedure to doing this is to pull the cylinder towards the rear with just thumb and forefinger then insert the largest shim that will fit with light drag. If the rear of the barrel has been filed a bit cockeyed you can check for this by checking what shim will fit from each side.

After doing that check for each chamber position the next thing to check is the End Shake. Here you only need to check one single cylinder position because all you are checking is the total forward to rear movement when moderate thumb and forefinger pressure is applied. You determine the shim that fits with the cylinder held to the rear and then the shim that fits with the cylinder held to the front. Subtract the smaller dimension from the larger and that's your End Shake.

Now for dimensions that actually matter.

Forget everything you've heard about a B/C gap under 0.006 inch causing issues with dragging. I have a Dan Wesson revolver that has a tuneable B/C gap and keep it set to a loose 0.003 shim condition and really snug 0.004 shim condition. Split the difference and that is a B/C gap that is likely in the ballpark of 0.0035 inch. With over 200 rounds downrange in a range session I have never had an issue with the cylinder getting draggy. I also have a 625 JM that checks between 0.0025 and 0.004 inch depending to cylinder position and it doesn't drag either, even with reloads made up using Unique. So, if your B/C gap is over 0.003 inch IMO you won't have any issues with the cylinder dragging. I can also tell you that you won't find any measurable difference in produced velocity when changing the B/C gap from 0.003 to 0.010 inch. The only reason I keep the Dan Wesson set as tight as it is set is because a tighter gap should reduce gas cutting on the top strap by some small amount and I do run some rather stout 357 Magnums in it. As for the upper limit on B/C gap I would draw the line at 0.012 inch for a classic I really craved and 0.008 inch for something real easy to find like a 686.

As for End Shake, per S&W's repair standards the End Shake should be corrected as soon as it measures 0.002 inch or larger. Too much End Shake can allow the cylinder to slam forward and back under recoil and too much movement will allow it to act like a Slide Hammer and really beat up the Yoke Tube.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:58 PM
PERAZZI PERAZZI is offline
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the gap should be even on both sides. I had to have a barrel turned in because it was .006/.020 and spit lead not to mention inaccurate. afterwards it's a consistent .003 on all cylinders.
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Old 09-12-2014, 07:52 AM
329 329 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
You really need to check this dimension with shims, a caliper is NOT the correct tool for doing this. The procedure to doing this is to pull the cylinder towards the rear with just thumb and forefinger then insert the largest shim that will fit with light drag. If the rear of the barrel has been filed a bit cockeyed you can check for this by checking what shim will fit from each side.

After doing that check for each chamber position the next thing to check is the End Shake. Here you only need to check one single cylinder position because all you are checking is the total forward to rear movement when moderate thumb and forefinger pressure is applied. You determine the shim that fits with the cylinder held to the rear and then the shim that fits with the cylinder held to the front. Subtract the smaller dimension from the larger and that's your End Shake.

Now for dimensions that actually matter.

Forget everything you've heard about a B/C gap under 0.006 inch causing issues with dragging. I have a Dan Wesson revolver that has a tuneable B/C gap and keep it set to a loose 0.003 shim condition and really snug 0.004 shim condition. Split the difference and that is a B/C gap that is likely in the ballpark of 0.0035 inch. With over 200 rounds downrange in a range session I have never had an issue with the cylinder getting draggy. I also have a 625 JM that checks between 0.0025 and 0.004 inch depending to cylinder position and it doesn't drag either, even with reloads made up using Unique. So, if your B/C gap is over 0.003 inch IMO you won't have any issues with the cylinder dragging. I can also tell you that you won't find any measurable difference in produced velocity when changing the B/C gap from 0.003 to 0.010 inch. The only reason I keep the Dan Wesson set as tight as it is set is because a tighter gap should reduce gas cutting on the top strap by some small amount and I do run some rather stout 357 Magnums in it. As for the upper limit on B/C gap I would draw the line at 0.012 inch for a classic I really craved and 0.008 inch for something real easy to find like a 686.

As for End Shake, per S&W's repair standards the End Shake should be corrected as soon as it measures 0.002 inch or larger. Too much End Shake can allow the cylinder to slam forward and back under recoil and too much movement will allow it to act like a Slide Hammer and really beat up the Yoke Tube.
I guess I did not make it clear in my previous post. I did check it with feeler gages and it was .004 with the feeler on one side and .011 on the other with the cylinder pulled back. I only use the calipers to verify that it was the forcing cone and not the cylinder alignment. After about 200 rounds I have not noticed any cylinder drag or "spitting" (not really sure what is meant by that, but it sounds like it would be noticable). The gun seems more accurate than I am. Below is a photo of my first 12 rounds off hand a couple of days ago. Single action from 25 feet. I don't know I can shoot any better with a snubbie. If I really concentrate on one bullet hole in the target I can usually come within an inch or so of that hole at 25 feet. Can someone explain the spitting? I am thinking if it ever starts to drag I would clamp it up and carefully file off of one side but the accuracy seems good and it is not spitting that I can tell.


Last edited by 329; 09-12-2014 at 08:08 AM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:36 AM
Camster Camster is offline
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For what it's worth:When I purchased my new 617 about sixteen years ago,it had an uneven gap similar to yours.I sent it back,had them correct it,and paid them to do some action work on it as well.I'm glad that I sent it in.

Last edited by Camster; 09-12-2014 at 08:37 AM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:55 AM
329 329 is offline
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Camster, did you notice any problems or issues when it was not even? I wonder if I am just to fussy about this stuff. Probably most people would not check if there were no funcional issues. I hate the though of sending it back to SW becuase of the long turn around time reported on the board here. I had to send my FA 97 back and had it in my hands a week later.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:13 AM
PERAZZI PERAZZI is offline
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Rbutton, spitting lead is usually from the cylinder not perfectly aligning with the forcing cone. If your happy with yours at 25 ft, it's fine. Many of us are Bullseye or PPC shooters where accuracy at 50 yards is required. At 25 and 50 yards my mod 14 6" would shoot large groups. After correcting the barrel gap problems it now shoots x-ring groups with match loads..

It really depends on what your requirements are.

Jim C

PS it's measured with the cylinder fully forward as previously stated, empty gun, pull trigger, while holding trigger back measure gap. This is where the hand is placing maximum forward pressure on the cylinder.

Last edited by PERAZZI; 09-12-2014 at 10:17 AM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:21 AM
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Yea Jim, I hear you. I am very pleased that the cylinder bores are all a very snug slip fit .429 as that is the bullet size I shoot from my FA83. I am happy with those groups at 25 feet with a 2.5 inch barrel, with my 6" FA83 that would not be the case. I will head out to an outdoor range this weekend and test the accuracy at 25 yards using a sandbag. I will also hang some paper 18-24 inches to my left side to see if there is any spitting that I am missng that might be annoying to someone standing next to me. The action is wonderful and the fit and finish (with the exception the the stupid bear tracks) is solid as well. I am working on dusting those tracks .

Last edited by 329; 09-12-2014 at 10:22 AM.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:26 AM
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I would just shoot and enjoy. I have at one time or another been caught up in the B/C gap worry also. I went as far as testing two Smiths with the same barrel length but extreme spread on B/C gap. Long story short there was very minimal difference on the chronograph. If it is not spitting bad (shooting lead out the sides, keep in mind they all do a little) I would not worry about it. I have many Smiths and they are all over the place with B/C gaps. Some of them uneven like yours. Shoot, enjoy and repeat.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:34 AM
Camster Camster is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RButton View Post
Camster, did you notice any problems or issues when it was not even? I wonder if I am just to fussy about this stuff. Probably most people would not check if there were no funcional issues. I hate the though of sending it back to SW becuase of the long turn around time reported on the board here. I had to send my FA 97 back and had it in my hands a week later.
I wasn't aware of any usage issues.It was,however,my first revolver,so perhaps I wasn't very qualified to evaluate it.I did know that it just wasn't right,the way that it was.(and yes,I tend to be a perfectionist)
I would think the misbehavior,ie,spitting,etc,would be more evident with a centerfire than a rimfire.
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:11 PM
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Took it out this weekend to shoot a bit longer. Rested at 25 yards it would consistently group 3" or a tad less. Solid for me considering the fiber optic front sight. I stapled a silhouette next to me on the right where the larger gap is. From 12-24 inches there was no sign on any thing spitting to the side. All and all very happy and though I may send it to s&w for a tune someday, it is fine for now. Thanks all for your tips and suggestions
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:24 PM
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If the gun shoots more accurate than you and does not shave bullets/spit lead, there is nothing to be concerned about.
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