I have been trying to track down some information about my question but I have not been able to come up with anything so far.

I am wondering if a Model 25 .45 Colt Mountain Gun can handle what are referred to as .45 Colt Ruger Loads.

I know they say not to use them in the variety of SAA replicas out there but nothing is ever mentioned about the S&W Colt .45 Handguns.

What are your thoughts?

The Ruger capable loads are generally waaaaay too stought for the S&W action/frame. Just my $0.02!

No! Do not do it! Buy a .44 magnum if the .45 Colt isn't enough for you.

You might want to read John Linebaugh's article on the 25-5. Google is your friend... matter of fact, I think a link to that article has been previously posted in another thread. It might be simpler to search for it on this forum.

I have done 21 grains of 2400 behind a 255 grain cast bullet. As a matter of fact I fired a 100 of them through a model 28 cylinder reamed to 45 colt and installed in a 1937 Brazilian. No ill effects. The cylinder will take it. It is actually about the same or a bit less pressure as 21 grains of 2400 behind a 240 in 44 mag due to the bigger case. The cylinder walls are .037 thinner than a model 29 and of course would fail at a pressure lower than a 29. But the frames are getting the same amount of pressure and the frames are exactly the same. If you shoot hot 44 loads in a S&W you will get end shake just like hot loads in a 45 colt.

But, my standard is 19 grains of 2400. Because I am shooting a big heavy bullet why do I need a little extra velocity? The change in trajectory over 100 yards is very minimal. I can't believe a deer or elk would know the difference if hit with a 255 grain .452 at 1100fps over a 2400gr .429 bullet at 1300. Power is fine accuracy is final.

I agree with John Linebaugh

I think the S&W 45 colts get a poor shake. While their frame isn't as massive as a Ruger, they are still way better guns than the factory loads for because the factory 45 have to consider some real old 45s.

Why beat your gun up for a few fps, 44 mag or 45 colt?

Keep your loads < 25k psi and you will be fine. That's basically 255 - 270gr SWC's at less than 1100fps. Hope that helps.

Don

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NRA Cert. Reloading Instructor

I will have to search that article out. It did not come up in the searches I tried. Thanks for the heads-up!

BTW, I do not plan on beating up my beloved Model 25 mountain Gun but I know dam well that it can handle more than factory .45 Colt Loads.

+1...

and heres the linebaugh article:

Gunnotes...Smith & Wesson Mod 25-5

I believe Brian Pearce had an article on reloading the .45 Colt in the Handloader a few issues back. It was a pretty thorough article, as I recall.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

If memory serves, the gist of the Linebaugh article was that one doesn't need all that velocity; that a 255 at ~1100 fps would take out just about anything on the face of the earth with the exception of the big bears, and would shoot through five feet of elk. And he had seen it do just that!

No need to beat up a fine revolver; keep it somewhere around 1100-1150 and enjoy that MG!

The cylinder might take it OK, but a steady diet is going to stretch the frame. My "newer" M25 mountain gun (with lock) is one of the most accurate 45 Colt revolvers I have.

I'm with the boys above...I keep my loads under 25,000 psi (Quickload software is great for this) and have a very accurate and powerful revolver that is not recoil intensive. My MG likes a load of 16.8 grains of 2400 and a 255 grain LSWC...very accurate.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Warmer than SAAMI , yes. What most of us consider "Ruger only" loads , no . Of course read the fine print of what a particular source quotes for pressure.

Pre-merger , Accurate Arms limited "RugerL loads to same pressure as their loads for .45acp+P , IIRC 21,500 . This actually would work well in a M25 . Speer for many years assigned 25K for "Ruger" loads. The Starting loads from their "Ruger only" loads would be of intrest for M25 and guns of similar strength.

Actually .45 ACP +P is 23,000 PSI. Standard .45 ACP is 21,000 PSI. John Linebaugh runs Ruger only .45 Colt loads to 32,000 PSI.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

The frame on your mountain gun is the same as the frame on a 629. The cylinder contains the side pressure and the frame back pressure. The frame of either will stretch with too much energy. I think energy is a better indicator of what happens to the frame. A 240 gr 44 mag to 1400 fps is 1045ftlbs. A 255gr 45 Colt at 1300 is only 957ftlbs. That's the energy that the case head is pressed back against the recoil shield as the bullet is pushed down the barrel or longitudinal force on the frame.

The pressure needed to move a 255 gr 45 to 1300 fps is around 30,000 cup 2400 less with H4227 and under 25,000 cup with H110

AA 44 mag 240 gr to 1400 takes about 36,000cup.

A S&W 25 or 625 shooting 255 gr bullets at 1200 (815ftlbs) should do fine especially with H110 instead of 2400. When I have used up all my 2400 that is to powder I may go to and jack up my velocity a bit while keeping my pressures the same. I believe my 3 S&W 45 colts could handle 1300 fps loads, but why? With a 50 yd zero it will drop about 1.5 inches more at 1100 than at 1300. Not that much and a 255 gr. 452 bullet at 1100fps will still plow through lots of bone and tissue.

Until I got my custom SBH in 454, the 45 Colt was my favorite (although I have several 44 mags). If you want more than the 44, go to a OM (larger frame) Ruger. WHY accelerate wear and push the limits when a safe alternative is out there?

Some great information here regarding pressures etc.

I truly enjoy my 45 Colt loads in my Smiths with a big
lead bullet and a case full of trail boss.
I will load lead with Unique and still stay relatively mild.
it is just how my old bones enjoy shooting big guns these days.

My friend and I will load the 250 gr. XTP to 1000 f.p.s.
but no more.

I do not handgun hunt. And prize my Smiths in 45,
I will not do anything to accelerate the wear on them
besides normal use.

Regards

Allen

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NRA cert.instructor&R.S.O.

I have a 25-9 and those loads are not useful in that revolver. I don't use those in my Blackhawk either. I have no need to deal with the heavy recoil for any purpose in my part of the country. If I had to worry about big carvivores thinking I look like a meal, I would look more at .454, .460 or 500 if a handgun had to be it for some reason. I like 250gr. SWC's at around 900fps for general use.

This is an excellent analysis and something a lot of people don't think about. Velocity and the weight of the projectile are critical factors to consider. Something Mr. Newton understood. The faster you move a given projectile the more stress it will put on the gun, regardless of where the pressure of the load sits with regard to SAAMI specs.

The current craze of super high speed shotgun loads is nutty to me, at least with regard to lead. Aside from good ballistic science showing that it makes negligible difference downrange, it's unnecessarily tough on both the shooter and the gun.

Not in my model 25! Standard pressure .45 Colt loads are more fun anyway. If you must, get a Ruger.

Some good analysis here. I have a custom Ruger BH, a MG and some SAA and some SAA clones. I've loaded the BH hot just for the heck of it and it ain't pleasant. One thing that most reloaders don't think about is that there is a lot of variability in reloading. No matter how careful or precise you are it's possible to get a load that is a lot hotter than what you think it is. So when you start pushing 45 colt to 44 mag levels (which I think a Ruger can take) what happens when the load is maybe 10~30% hotter than you think.

I love the Taffin & Linebaugh articles. I have and love Taffin's books. But I think they both have blown up a few guns in their lifetimes.

Year, 1990. I stopped in a gun shop on my way to somewhere else. In the case was a S&W 45 colt revolver. Matt black solid cylinder, Laser engraved "Model of 1989". I bought it. Before I took it home, I measured the top strap and other parts of a model 29 frame to see if they were the same.

I had intentions of hunting with this gun. Took it home and loaded regular 45 colt and some hot ones. I put a clamp on scope mount on it.

The first time I fired one of those hot loads practicing, I took out one lens of my glasses and cut my nose with the scope.

I used that gun for a couple years to hunt. I did not fire any more of those nose hot loads, just carried them in the gun to hunt. I never shot a deer with that gun. I still have the box of hot loads and probably always will.

Now I have a Ruger Super Redhawk in 44 mag for deer hunting and use the model 25 as a comfortable shooter with 900 fps bullets only. The scope has been off since that first two years. I like that gun much better with no scope. I also shoot Hunters Silhouette and use it as my iron sight gun.

Looking at the cylinder where the stop goes in, its awfully thin there.

Its still as tight as new and I have fired that gun a LOT. Not even a box of 50 of those HOT ones.

Enjoy your gun no matter how you use it. Please be safe, and smarter than I was.

David

I use 10.0 grains of HS-6 with the Lyman 250 SWC out of my 4" 25-5 and I chronographed it at 1000 fps. The recoil is not too bad. I have a 2' long box in my garage that is filled with sand with an old bullet proof vest in the back that I use to test loads before I load up any quantity. The only bullets that ever make it close to the vest are the 45 colt and auto loads at 750-800 fps. The 1000 fps 45 colt loads come to rest against the vest so in my opinion you don't need much more than that for general purposes. I like to shoot the 750 fps loads simply because they are easier on me and i don't need the extra power to target practice with.

Mike

While I don't believe a lot of velocity is needed I do like mine hotter than factory. A factory 45 Colt is around 14,000psi, and 850fps. That's a waste in a S&W colt. The factory 45 ACP is around 21,000psi and a 45 ACP +P around 23,000psi. The frames of the S&W ACP and Colts are the same, the cylinders have the same diameter holes. Explain to me why the ACP is fine at 23,000 and the Colt isn't. The frames are the same as the 44 mags and they take more energy than either. I fail to see a problem with running a S&W 45 Colt in the low 20s. If you don't take advantage of that big case why not just run an ACP with mild loads? I am not knocking those who only run factory pressures for recoil reasons. But, I believe that these guns have more to offer if you want it, I just wouldn't go to the top Ruger loadings more like the bottom of their loadings.
Once my 2400 is gone, If I can get 8# of H110 I will go to around 1200fps and have the same pressures. All my 45s have been cut to run 45acps as well as colts. I mostly fire ACPs. (45 shorts LOL) The Colts rounds I fire are with hunting in mind. I don't change the sights as I want more range with the Colts and the difference isn't that much anyway and I have learned what it is.

If you are using modern brass, trimming, sizing bullets, properly adjusting dies, and have a measure that throws very consistent why would you get some loads that are 10-30% over? a 23,000psi colt load would be 25,300-29,600psi. A 45ACP load would be more apt to cause problems because of its smaller case. Same result with a 36000psi 44 mag would be 39,600 to 46,800. If you can't load a warm colt you best not be loading any 45 ACPs or 44 mags.

I have been experimenting with an early 25-5 4" trying to improve accuracy. It didn't match my Ruger SA's, my opinion. So far the most accurate load tried is a 200gr RNFP being pushed by 9.0 Unique and ignited by Remington large pistol primers. Bullet diameter is .453-.454. The heavier cast bullets with lighter charges give so-so accuracy in my gun.

Have you checked your cylinder. I have heard some early ones were over .456. All my guns now run reamed out 44 mag cylinders so I could get what I wanted, but 2 started life as ACPs and one was originally a 629. so all mine have .452 chamber throats. I had to refit the barrels so they all had the forcing cones recut too.

Opps , my bad on recall of the specific PSI number from first of fat Accurate Manuals , but primary point was the linkage to .45acp pressures.

There are multiple factors in determining suitable pressure ranges. We could go full angles on pinhead with pressure curves and acceleration rates , but for rule of thumb for developing endshake , and battering of internal parts , I mentally think in terms of G Forces , and will further mentally equate more directly with momemtum than kinetic energy.

As noted in that regard, a M25 would be substantally similar to a M29 . BUT , in my interpetation , that's not the limiting factor with a M25 , it's the bolt notch.

Rather than speaking on a particular number , I will make a comparison to a well known class of revolver : Recent production , correctly dimentioned , modern steel SAA clones. Whatever number you assign to those , *to me* would also be good for a M25 .
While I don't have the privledge of owning a M25 , I do have havored loads at this level , and a few more directions to eventually try.

Depending on the individual gun , this will put a 250-260 to low to mid 1000's . This is a useful level of load. If the only big bore revolver I owned was one of this type , I might convince myself to work up another 75-100fps , but having both large frame Rugers , and .44's I don't feel the need.

I know it a long time after post started and I probably should start another one.I'll just say I exploded mine with a handload. I will never really know what happened.The way I weigh each load leans me away from double loaded,which most people think happened.I think other issues accured.Just be safe always