I'll start this by saying I love S&W revolvers. I'm a revolver person, love them. But here's my experience today on buying a new J-frame:

Went to my LGS. It's a large store but privately owned. Looked at new models 649, 60, 640. There were 2 model 60's, 4 model 649's, and 3 model 640's. ALL nine of them had canted barrels. Some of them were VERY bad, with the square edge of the barrel touching the edge of the frame. I decided to go with a 640, which had the least cant. I got home, cleaned it, and then noticed the forcing cone had metal shavings on the port side, right on the edge, and the circle was not concentric. It's as if a tool was taken to the cone, and shaved only on the left side. Very sharp shards. Bought it back to the store, they were very good and let me get something else.

After looking at all of them again, I decided on a m649. Barrel cant was slight. I do notice that while endshake is minimal in full lock up and when at rest, the cylinder does have quite a bit of rotational play both at rest and even in full lock up. I know that this isn't necesarily a bad thing (as the bullet aligns itself as it leaves the cylinder and enters the f/c).

What bothers me is that all nine new J-frames had what I would consider significant problems. At least two of them had VERY loose cylinder to yoke strength (pushing on the cylinder slightly made the gap increase A LOT). All had canted barrels, some significantly so. Cyinders have a lot of rotational wobble, especially compared with my older smiths.

I'm not trying to bash the company. I bought a S&W today after it all. BUT, am I the only one to notice these huge QC problems? Especially the forcing cone burrs.

Attached Images

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The canted barrel problems seem to have been running rampant the last couple of years, at least what I have seen on this forum.

I have not noticed any canted barrels, but when I was on a search for a new CC gun, I was a bit disappointed in the new J frames I looked at.

I went in expecting the same smooth trigger and cylinder release of my 686-3 but instead found a very rough trigger and a cylinder release that did not want to release

That combined with the internal lock led me to purchase a Ruger SP101 and I am very satisfied with the choice.

Yes, in addition to the 'problems' I mentioned in the OP, I noticed that the triggers were all varied considerably from one to the next. Some triggers were nice, others were 'stacky'.

I don't mind the lock so much, I just want good fit and finish.

I believe the problem comes from untrained "fitters". Or, what should be called "assemblers", not "fitters". There is no hand fitting any longer, and with CNC machining not a lot is needed, but there is some NEEDED and either the employees are not capable or are paid for production only and not to consider quality. I hate to say it, but the QC at S&W has slipped considerably. They always make it right and the service dept. still knows how to "fit" and fix. Probably the bean counters have determined it is cheaper for the public to do their QC and only worry about fixing those sent back. Once fixed they have a great revolver still.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Congrats on your newest!

I'm surprised you bought one with all the problems that you stated. I would've passed and looked for a better sample.

Are you planning on sending it in to S&W?

Well...I'm shocked...SHOCKED I SAY!

Shocked that any store on the planet EVER had NINE all-steel S&W's in stock at a single point in time.

WOW...I'm just too stunned to respond. I've never seen anything close to that. What is that, a whole month of S&W's production of all-steel revolvers sent to a single store...

Not surprised that they all had issues though.

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But then, what do I know?

Thanks. The one I picked is very slightly canted, so little that I'm not concerned. The rotational cylinder wobble is a little more concerning, but I'll shoot the gun first and see how it goes.

If it shoots well and doesn't spit, I think I'll leave it as is.

Another LGS I was at had a used 629 with unfluted cylinder and target hammer and trigger with 3 inch barrel. I ALMOST bought it, but I suspect it had been 'cowboyed' slammed shut a few times. The cylinder didn't spin free, and when I pushed outward on the cylinder when closed the frame/yoke gaps increased quite a bit. Timing and endshake were perfect though. Too bad.

So I took the new 649 to the range today and put 50 rounds of 38 spl. and 50 rounds of 357 magnum.

Consistently got flecked in the side of the face with copper/lead while shooting the 357 magnum rounds. I think this has to do with the excessive cylinder wiggle (rotational) when the gun is in full lock-up.

I called up S&W, talked to a service rep, and they emailed me a package label and it's going back today. We'll see what happens. I do like this little humpback magnum, it looks great and carries even better as a back-up to my 1911. I hope this one works out.

Did S&W get bought out by Taurus?

QUALITY CONTROL IS IN THE TOILET. THEY ARE JUST SHIPPING THE GUNS OUT. IF THEY COME BACK, THEY WILL FIX THEM. THE CUSTOMER IS NOW DOING QC……...

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

The LGS that I bought this one from has a guy that works there that i'm friendly with. When he saw the buggered up forcing cone on the new 640 (the one I returned to the store), his exact comment referenced Taurus. ('this is something you'd expect from a Taurus, not a S&W). Then we both spent 30 minutes picking the best 649/60 from the half dozen available, all with loose yoke/frame lockup, canted barrels, or something else.

The one I picked had the straightest barrel (it's very very close to 12'clock), but apparently it has cylinder /lock-work issues that makes it spit copper at my face.

Really, for a 650 dollar snub nose, we'd expect better

YES, TAURUS DOES COME TO MIND. THEY ORIGINATED THE "JUST SHIP IT OUT. IF IT COMES BACK WE'LL FIX IT" QUALITY CONTROL PLAN…..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Don't get me wrong I still LOVE my S+W 442 but after buying a Ruger
LCR 9mm and putting over 300 rounds thru it with no issues and that nice smooth trigger the 442 got put in the safe. Yes I know Ruger has its problems too but I just fell in love with the Ruger. It's not as pretty as my Smith but dam it's a nice carry gun shoots great and it's fun to shoot.

Ruger has definitely stepped up. I looked at a GP100 Match champion and was VERY close to taking it home (but I needed a snubby). S&W should take note: Ruger knows what they are doing, and for lower prices.

While the sp101 is a great gun, it just doesn't balance like a stainless J-frame. Also, I love the humpback hammer shroud.

I hope the 649 comes back like it should be-tight and properly fitted.

Out of the four new S&Ws I bought two had to go back.

2011 442 no lock - perfect in every way

2012 M-63 had to go back for lead spitting - replaced barrel, works great

2014 Governor - Perfect

2015 627 Pro is back at S&W now. Something wrong where the trigger wouldn't "reset" the hammer, the cylinder would rotate and lock, on the next shot the hammer would not engage so it would not fire but rotate the cylinder leaving an unfired round. This only happened when releasing the trigger slowly.

All barrels have perfectly aligned

Would I buy another new one

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Be obscure, clearly.

I looked at two new PC guns too: 629 PC 2.5, 686 PC. BOTH had problems. The 629 had a very weak yoke /frame lock up, as the gap would get very big with a slight push on the cylinder. The 686pc had horrendous cylinder end play. Like it had been shot in IDPA for years and it needed endshake bearings. But it was brand new.

I'm NOT bashing the company: I love S&W. I very much wAnt to buy. But I'm just very disappointed with what I've seen.