|
|
04-04-2015, 11:28 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
|
|
Model 14 education please
I have a 686-3 that I primarily use for 38spl indoor target shooting with wadcutters and semiwadcutters.
I have been giving thought to a model 14 target revolver and just wondering what to expect in terms of pleasantness of shooting and quality of sights. Is there a specific model or dash series that I would want? I notice that some are SA/DA and some are SA only, how is the DA and SA, will they require some basic trigger and spring work to bring them around or are they great the way they were built?
Please help and share your knowledge on whether I would appreciate getting into a Model 14 target to enjoy
Thanks!
Karl
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-04-2015, 12:04 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Kansas
Posts: 2,566
Likes: 5,443
Liked 2,921 Times in 1,222 Posts
|
|
In 1957 S&W started using model numbers. Prior to 1957 the model 14 was called the K-38 Masterpiece.
I think the overall short answer is that you would be very happy with any vintage K-38 Masterpiece or Model 14.
To answer your first question I think you would find any K-38 Masterpiece of Model 14 to shoot pleasantly. Regarding the sights, all vintages came with 1/10" or 1/8" Patridge front sight and micrometer adjustable rear sights.
Regarding "specific model or dash series" I think they are all very good. There are numerous small engineering changes but in my mind here are some things that materially differentiate some of the iterations:
1949 - heavy barrel introduced
1952 - discontinue 1/10" Patridge front sight
1955 - delete upper side plate screw going from a "5-screw" to a "4-screw"
1961 (14-2) - delete trigger guard screw going from a "4-screw" to a "3-screw"
1968 - Delete diamond grips. Although not a mechanical or structural change it is significant to some
1982 - Delete pinned barrel
1991 - (14-5) introduce a full lug barrel
1995 - delete square butt
1997 - change to MIM parts
In my opinion you would not need to modify the trigger or spring to "bring them around."
Triggers and hammers come in standard and target widths.
Grips come as standard (Magna), Target (larger sized), combat (smooth, contoured, with finger grooves) and, infrequently, synthetic grips.
Yes, there are some uncommon versions with 4 inch barrels and single action only but for the most part they are all 6" barrels and double-action/single action.
Here's a link to a current discussion in the S&W Forum about a purchase of a K-38 Masterpiece that might be informative for you:
K38 5 screw/ question
Good luck
__________________
Scoundrel & Ne'er-Do-Well
Last edited by g8rb8; 04-04-2015 at 12:33 PM.
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-04-2015, 12:27 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by g8rb8
In 1957 S&W started using model numbers. Prior to 1957 the model 14 was called the K-38 Masterpiece.
I think the overall short answer is that you would be very happy with any vintage K-38 Masterpiece or Model 14.
To answer your first question I think you would any K-38 Masterpiece of Model 14 to shoot pleasantly. Regarding the sights, all vintages came with 1/10" or 1/8" Patridge front sight and micrometer adjustable rear sights.
Regarding "specific model or dash series" I think they are all very good. There are numerous small engineering changes but in my mind here are some things that materially differentiate some of the iterations:
1949 - heavy barrel introduced
1952 - discontinue 1/10" Patridge front sight
1955 - delete upper side plate screw going from a "5-screw" to a "4-screw"
1961 (14-2) - delete trigger guard screw going from a "4-screw" to a "3-screw"
1968 - Delete diamond grips. Although not a mechanical or structural change it is significant to some
1982 - Delete pinned barrel
1991 - (14-5) introduce a full lug barrel
1995 - delete square butt
1997 - change to MIM parts
In my opinion you would not need to modify the trigger or spring to "bring them around."
Triggers and hammers come in standard and target widths.
Grips come as standard (Magna), Target (larger sized), combat (smooth, contoured, with finger grooves) and, infrequently, synthetic grips.
Yes, there are some uncommon versions with 4 inch barrels and single action only but for the most part they are all 6" barrels and double-action/single action.
Here's a link to a current discussion in the S&W Forum about a purchase of a K-38 Masterpiece that might be informative for you:
K38 5 screw/ question
Good luck
|
Ahhh this is very helpful! A most kind thanks for the chronological breakdown.
I had a feeling that this may be a gun I would appreciate greatly.
Karl
|
04-04-2015, 01:16 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: North Central Illinois
Posts: 973
Likes: 1,460
Liked 705 Times in 351 Posts
|
|
I have a 686-1 and my brother has a 14-4, pinned barrel, target stocks, 22K serial number range which puts it from the late 1970s I believe. He and I have both had our respective guns for about 25 years. His 14-4 is more accurate than my 686-1. As far as triggers, in SA, I slightly prefer his 14-4. It breaks just a little bit better. In DA his 14-4 is lighter and slicker.
Since you're shooting .38wc or swc indoors, I think you'd be very happy with a M14. The overall feel will be different due to the lack of a full underlug, but the M14 overall has better balance. Plus, if you have grips you like on your 686-3, they will fit a M14 although the feel may be a little different because the K frame is a little smaller than the L frame.
I've noticed that Simpson's usually has a number of M14s with a variety of grips. I think they are repatriated as most have been modified to SA only to comply with a European target shooting regulation. I have no idea what the regulation is-- nor do I have any affiliation with Simpsons. But, at least reading through Simpson's descriptions will give you some idea of condition v. pricing.
|
04-04-2015, 01:40 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 7,807
Likes: 4,237
Liked 15,203 Times in 4,161 Posts
|
|
My 14-4 is one of my favorite range guns, accurate beyond belief. These are fairly rare in good shape but a great purchase if you can find one in good shape.
__________________
Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)
|
04-04-2015, 02:17 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Santo las nubes, Florida
Posts: 9,004
Likes: 9,236
Liked 14,707 Times in 4,706 Posts
|
|
I like Model 14's, a most underrated revolver. Top is a 14-3 (12K#)SAO version with 3 T's. Trigger advances the cylinder. I don't think the trigger is better than any of the others in SA. Middle is 14-3 (1K#) with Standard trigger and hammer, came with #'d magnas. Looks good for a gun made in my junior year of high school. Bottom is a 14-5, not made for too long. Came with the finger groove grips, a Target hammer but standard trigger. Almost didn't buy it as I thought it was an L frame (Not that there's anything wrong with them) but I'm a sucker fro K frames. These guns can be shot with any .38 spl ammo but high pressure rounds would seem to go contrary to intent. Get one. Joe
__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-04-2015, 03:05 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
|
|
Joe, can I take my pick LOL
That is a beautiful collection, now I am on a quest! Thanks for sharing your enthusiasm on the model and showing the guns.
Now I need to learn some values of what to expect to pay.
Thanks!
Karl
|
04-05-2015, 12:42 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Northeast TX
Posts: 1,277
Likes: 623
Liked 995 Times in 413 Posts
|
|
In my opinion, there is no greater pleasure in handgunning than spending a few hours outside with a nice model 14 and a ziplock baggie full of 148gr wadcutter reloads.
__________________
Where we go one, we go all
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-05-2015, 12:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: WINCHESTER, VIRGINIA
Posts: 3,356
Likes: 4,437
Liked 4,433 Times in 1,463 Posts
|
|
This 14-3 does just fine for me- had another, but gave it to my son who lived in Alaska at the time. She also has smooth targets but like the stag-- Just cannot seem to let this one go.
|
The Following 5 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-05-2015, 01:00 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Liked 53 Times in 20 Posts
|
|
I have both a pre-war k38 Masterpiece and its post-War Model 14 iteration from the early 1950s. Both are superb paper punchers with S/A D/A trigger feel that is not duplicated by any current S&W production guns. The feel is second only to one of my pre-war Colt Shooting Master and a first decade 20th Century New Service Target in 44 S&W Russian. Those two were the products of hand fitting actions by master revolver builders, and an action Colt continued in its post-War 357 (a special target model, not the Trooper), the Officers Model Match- albeit not hand done to the same extent, and the carefully hand crafted early Phytons. Colt correctly followed the 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' approach with these guns. The pre-War K-38 comes damn close and may be S&W's finest hour. David
__________________
Time Wounds All Heels
|
04-05-2015, 02:55 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Hillsdale, Mi.
Posts: 7,495
Likes: 7,033
Liked 7,083 Times in 2,940 Posts
|
|
I bought a 14-3 (1977) last year. Came with target grips. It was on G.B. $410 shipped with insurance. Super nice gun, along with that it shoots great. Bob
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
04-05-2015, 02:55 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 7,778
Likes: 2,484
Liked 8,314 Times in 2,917 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by g8rb8
In 1957 S&W started using model numbers. Prior to 1957 the model 14 was called the K-38 Masterpiece.
I think the overall short answer is that you would be very happy with any vintage K-38 Masterpiece or Model 14.
To answer your first question I think you would find any K-38 Masterpiece of Model 14 to shoot pleasantly. Regarding the sights, all vintages came with 1/10" or 1/8" Patridge front sight and micrometer adjustable rear sights.
Regarding "specific model or dash series" I think they are all very good. There are numerous small engineering changes but in my mind here are some things that materially differentiate some of the iterations:
1949 - heavy barrel introduced
1952 - discontinue 1/10" Patridge front sight
1955 - delete upper side plate screw going from a "5-screw" to a "4-screw"
1961 (14-2) - delete trigger guard screw going from a "4-screw" to a "3-screw"
1968 - Delete diamond grips. Although not a mechanical or structural change it is significant to some
1982 - Delete pinned barrel
1991 - (14-5) introduce a full lug barrel
1995 - delete square butt
1997 - change to MIM parts
In my opinion you would not need to modify the trigger or spring to "bring them around."
Triggers and hammers come in standard and target widths.
Grips come as standard (Magna), Target (larger sized), combat (smooth, contoured, with finger grooves) and, infrequently, synthetic grips.
Yes, there are some uncommon versions with 4 inch barrels and single action only but for the most part they are all 6" barrels and double-action/single action.
Here's a link to a current discussion in the S&W Forum about a purchase of a K-38 Masterpiece that might be informative for you:
K38 5 screw/ question
Good luck
|
Very nice run down of revisional changes,
I would add that the 14-1 revisional change reversed the direction of the ejector rod threads to prevent it unscrewing during use and the 14-4 revision moved the gas ring from the yoke to the cylinder which supposedly improved resistance to powder fouling cylinder rotation.
|
04-05-2015, 03:04 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 18,773
Likes: 6,048
Liked 5,762 Times in 1,992 Posts
|
|
The Model 14 is a wonderful revolver that was once a competition gun in the 50's and early 60's and it was made to be accurate by S&W. The K22 22 LR was made to weigh the same and feel the same in hand and was used for practice by the competition shooters using the model 14 so they could practice trigger control with cheaper ammo.
|
04-05-2015, 06:21 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Liked 53 Times in 20 Posts
|
|
On the subject of great triggers, and a great 38 wadcutter launcher, I fave a pristine no dash 586 8& 3/8" that has the nicest breaking trigger of any S&W I have experienced of that generation. Between its feel and its condition I overpaid for it four years ago and don't feel guilty at all when I take it out to the range for its exercise. Bought the same day as its 8&3/8 Python cousin, another great wadcutter dispenser . David
__________________
Time Wounds All Heels
Last edited by Dnovo1; 04-05-2015 at 06:22 PM.
|
04-05-2015, 07:47 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SE USA
Posts: 2,464
Likes: 4,476
Liked 1,919 Times in 868 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontargetagain
Joe, can I take my pick LOL
That is a beautiful collection, now I am on a quest! Thanks for sharing your enthusiasm on the model and showing the guns.
Now I need to learn some values of what to expect to pay.
Thanks!
Karl
|
Which one would you pick, out of curiosity?
|
04-05-2015, 09:15 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SW Montana
Posts: 626
Likes: 495
Liked 194 Times in 143 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontargetagain
I have a 686-3 that I primarily use for 38spl indoor target shooting with wadcutters and semiwadcutters.
I have been giving thought to a model 14 target revolver and just wondering what to expect in terms of pleasantness of shooting and quality of sights. Is there a specific model or dash series that I would want? I notice that some are SA/DA and some are SA only, how is the DA and SA, will they require some basic trigger and spring work to bring them around or are they great the way they were built?
Please help and share your knowledge on whether I would appreciate getting into a Model 14 target to enjoy
Thanks!
Karl
|
Ontargetagain
I'd get a mod. 14 in a heartbeat. I had one once & used it to shoot the old Police PPC matches. This was in the mid 70s & I still fondly remember that gun. I'd love another one day & maybe I will. I shot mostly target .38 wadcutters & that gun will shoot better than you can. I even got to where I could hit thrown bottles at the dump with it. They are fantastic guns & well worth the money.
I would get one before the MIM parts & lock just because. I don't like the lock nor MIM & the one I used to have was way before that. Depending on what use you are going to have for it you may or may not want a target hammer & trigger. I don't care for them because I carry most guns I have & I like a std hammer & trigger. Also my hands are big & a target hammer will pinch the web of my hand cocking it with my left thumb & shooting SA. I would also get a DA/SA gun because I really like shooting SA. I think unless you are a steely eyed target shooter the gun if not messed with will please you right out of the box.
Let us know what you decide, I think you will enjoy the gun.
Enjoy!
__________________
US RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-05-2015, 09:52 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud Jr.
Which one would you pick, out of curiosity?
|
I like tradition so I think #1 would be my pick. Those grips fill my hand nicely. They all are attractive in their respectful ways and I would love to have any one of them!
Karl
|
04-05-2015, 11:12 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 487
Likes: 368
Liked 324 Times in 155 Posts
|
|
My model 14 6 inch From1974 is pure pleasure. It will make a average shooter excited and ready to shoot more. Just last night mine was out getting a little buffing and just admiring it. Only 6 inch revolver I have
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-06-2015, 05:47 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: North Central Ohio
Posts: 921
Likes: 862
Liked 597 Times in 332 Posts
|
|
Thanks to all for their contributions here. Since there was nothing negative and only encouraging banter on the Model 14 I just purchased a -3 model with TT/TH. Grips were modded by someone so we will see how they do or don't fit my hand. Also included some Hogues but I want a this one wood gripped to keep it authentic and nostalgic
I'm anxious now and will have to load up a bunch more 158 plated SWC's and some 148 plated WC's to have some fun with.
I appreciate everyones input, made for a rapid learning curve!
Karl
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
04-06-2015, 08:41 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 383
Liked 988 Times in 535 Posts
|
|
I would look for any K-38 with a pinned barrel. I recently acquired a nearly unused 14-3 with TH and TT. For a 40 year old gun with no turn line it had a pretty darn good trigger. With gentle use the trigger has smoothed out even more. I like the TH and TT because they give me lots of feedback and control. The K-38 is perfectly mated to .38 wadcutters, but I've gotten pretty good accuracy with every ammo I've tried in it. I like the deep bluing of the -3 era, but the K-38 is generally excellent no matter which vintage.
|
04-08-2015, 02:39 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: SW Montana
Posts: 626
Likes: 495
Liked 194 Times in 143 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by ontargetagain
Thanks to all for their contributions here. Since there was nothing negative and only encouraging banter on the Model 14 I just purchased a -3 model with TT/TH. Grips were modded by someone so we will see how they do or don't fit my hand. Also included some Hogues but I want a this one wood gripped to keep it authentic and nostalgic
I'm anxious now and will have to load up a bunch more 158 plated SWC's and some 148 plated WC's to have some fun with.
I appreciate everyones input, made for a rapid learning curve!
Karl
|
Congratulations.
You are going to enjoy that. They are great handguns. Look in most any reloading manual & try the starting load of Bullseye, 231, HP38, Red Dot, & probably other powders underneath a good wadcutter & I'll bet that gun will stick them all in the same hole!
Let us know how it shoots when you get it to the range.
Thanks.
__________________
US RIDE FOR THE BRAND OR LEAVE
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|