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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 07-15-2015, 09:24 PM
rogo123 rogo123 is offline
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Default 442 no lock or Wyatt deep cover?

Need a lightweight carry gun. All my snubs are collectable and I hesitate to carry them.

I like the Smith Airweights but every new one I have looked at in gun shops has had problems right from the factory.

Any advice?
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Old 07-15-2015, 09:31 PM
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I bought a 642-1 with out the lock at a Phoenix gun show about 4 years ago for right at $400.00 and have had not one single issue with it. I carry 110gr +P+ loads and every couple of months shoot the carried rounds along with 50 or so lead SWC and the little gun is tight as a drum. This weekend I am going back to Phoenix to another gun show and if I can not find the Nickel Model 15 I saw last time, I am thinking about getting another 642-1. SO, that would be my pick.

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Old 07-15-2015, 09:58 PM
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I'd pick a stainless airweight over a 442 simply because my 442 is prone to rust on the yoke when I carry it IWB and don't remember to wipe the yoke down with an oily or silicone rag every night. The 638 that replaced it as my daily carry piece doesn't have that problem. If you like the concealed hammer design I'd pick a 642 over the 442. And would certainly get a no-lock version, as it would have just that many fewer parts to go wrong.
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Old 07-15-2015, 10:49 PM
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I would go with a 642 over the 442 for the stainless steel. The internal lock is pretty much a deal breaker for me on a small carry snub. I think the enclosed hammer frame has a lot more practical advantages compared to a bobbed hammer one.
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Old 07-15-2015, 11:05 PM
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I have several J frame in the -1 versionss, all made in the last year, with no issues what so ever. I favor the 442/642 platform. The Wyatt has a lock and is a reminder of the Gunsmoke shop debacle.

Best Regards,
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  #6  
Old 07-15-2015, 11:08 PM
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If I were in your position I'd get a no-lock 642-1 for the reasons others have mentioned. I have a 642-1 for my carry gun and I'd have no qualms about getting another one (or three).
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Old 07-16-2015, 12:58 AM
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PLEASE DO NOT BUY THE WYATT DEEP COVER!

You DO NOT want ANYTHING associated with that shop!
  #8  
Old 07-16-2015, 02:02 AM
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My lowly, cheap, two year old 442 is among the finest guns I own. Save for the typical aluminum flashing around the barrel (which was easily removed), it is perhaps the most flawless firearm I have ever purchased. There are several hundred rounds through it and I hope it lasts forever. I'm considering a 642 as well. The 442 frame finish is known to be more durable, while the 642 should be more rust resistant.

The "Deep Cover" guns come with a pretty slick action but are too gimmicky for my tastes.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:17 AM
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I don't like the ILS in the Airweight or Air Lite J-frames. For that reason, I would pick the 442-1 every time.
  #10  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:29 AM
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Suggest a 442 Moon Clip (aka "Pro"). No lock. Stainless barrel and cylinder. Superior finish. Moon clip option, but not required.
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Old 07-16-2015, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
PLEASE DO NOT BUY THE WYATT DEEP COVER!

You DO NOT want ANYTHING associated with that shop!
You need to qualify that kind of advice.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick_A View Post
The 442 frame finish is known to be more durable, while the 642 should be more rust resistant.
.
As to the above quote - I just remarked the same in another post about a cracked 642. I've heard of many of them, but nary a 442.

I've had a 442 for probably 15 years or so, I've lost count. It has become my constant companion. It was one of the first run of +p certified air weights but does not have the +p marking. Right after I purchased it, I contacted S&W for that confirmation and they told some of the first batch did not get properly marked. I usually practice with light to normal 38 spl ammo. The only +ps that have ever been shot through it are my selected carry load - Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point. Believe me, I dislike shooting them more than the gun does!

You can't go wrong with a 442!
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petemacmahon View Post
You can't go wrong with a 442!
...or a 642 made within the last few years and remember despite what it's rated for a steady diet of hot ammo will wear a gun out quicker.
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Old 07-16-2015, 09:51 AM
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I love my 442. It goes with me more than any other gun I own. It is a no lock and I also carry it with the Speer Gold Dots 135 gr. ammo. For me, I just like the fact that it is black and not as shiny as the 642. Never an issue with the 442 and for me, recoil is not a problem. Also, I have CT LG-405 grips on it. I'm just not as big of a fan of the brighter stainless........
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:08 AM
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It's a 442 for me. Goes wherever I go.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:14 AM
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I avoided the aluminum J frames for a long time but one day I ran across a new no lock 442 and gave it a try. To sum it up I like it, a bit more recoil than my steel frame models but manageable and maybe I got lucky a pretty decent trigger pull and shoots to the sights as well. It spends a lot of time in a El Paso pocket holster these days.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:21 AM
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642 coming out of a size 3 Blackhawk pocket holster bought on the cheap at Wallyworld. (always the low price leader)
Draw time .03 seconds to cover anyone closer than 15 feet with a knife ready to cut ya up like a Thanksgiving turkey. (try that when your semi-automatic jams)

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Old 07-16-2015, 10:31 AM
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I have the 442 Pro ( w/ moon clips), no lock. Great EDC. At least 700- 1000 rnds , all brands of ammo, no issues. If recoil is an issue, I suggest Hogue Tamer grips, felt recoil is greatly reduced.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:42 AM
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My vote is for the 442 pro or the 642 from the PC.

Don't care to much for the Whyatt do to the cheesy looking logo, but several members here say they are slicked up nicely.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:48 AM
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What I don't like about it is that 'grip clip'. No one should be sticking a gun anywhere on their person without a holster. That's a disaster waiting to happen. Very surprised that S&W would agree to produce this, no doubt their lawyers gave the go ahead. Good luck suing if you shoot the gonads off.
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Old 07-16-2015, 10:59 AM
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The clip grip can be easily swapped out if it bothers you.
  #22  
Old 07-16-2015, 11:03 AM
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Problem is people are buying it for that reason and because of the Wyatt hype.
Better off to just buy the regular 642 to start with then spend more money later right.
Too each their own.
  #23  
Old 07-16-2015, 11:05 AM
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I had a chance to fondle the Wyatt at the LGS a while back. The trigger was awesome and I really liked the Clip Grip. I did not like the price tag however.

I bought the Wyatt Deep Cover's less sexy cousin, the 637-2 used for a song. Took me all of 30 minutes to remove the ISL and bob the hammer. Bought a Desantis Clip Grip (just like the Wyatt has). The trigger pull is heavier than the Wyatt, but it's smooth.

Get what you like. Who care's if the barrel says "Gunsmoke"? It's going to be residing in your pocket or waistband. If you can get it for a good price, I say go for it.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:09 AM
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To me the Wyatt thing is a advertising hype to sell a gun at a pumped up price. It may have a better trigger but not enough to make the difference in price worth it, IMHO. I've carried a Model 442 nickel for years w/o a single problem, and my M38 was purchased used in the early '70s and is still shot and carried often. I'd go for either the 642 or 442 w/o the lock.
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Old 07-16-2015, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
Suggest a 442 Moon Clip (aka "Pro"). No lock. Stainless barrel and cylinder. Superior finish. Moon clip option, but not required.
I've seen differing opinions regarding if the barrel and cylinder are both blackened stainless steel. I've also contacted multiple people at S&W and get a different answer every time.
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:05 PM
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@rogo 12, Are you saying the 442's are made in Brazil?
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel P. Morris View Post
@rogo12,

As been mention get what feels good to you and if it matters anything only the 642 snubs are made in America. All the other J-frame snubs are made at the Taurus plant in Brazil. (S&W's dirty little secret)
Seriously? My 638-3, that says "SPFLD MA" and "S&W USA" on the frame (as does my 442) was actually made in Brazil? Stunning info. Has to be one of the best kept secrets in the gun biz. (I'm still looking for the smiley.)
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Old 07-16-2015, 01:59 PM
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The extra cost on the Wyatt model is because, at the end of the day, it's a performance center model. Smith and Wesson has been using television shows as a way of putting their products more into the mainstream buyers market. Think " Bone Collector". It is just another model of J frame gun. Gunsmoke probably collaborated with designers on what they thought were good modifications, and then S&W produced them. The difference between a regular 637 and a Deep Cover is $90 MSRP. You can't get all the work done on your 637 for that price. And I don't think that the gun looks bad at all. The difference between most models from standard and performance center is usually more. So in my opinion the Deep Cover model isn't a bad option. And you can find it much cheaper online obviously than MSRP. Places like Bud's have good deals alot of the time.
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Old 07-16-2015, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel P. Morris View Post
What I don't like about it is that 'grip clip'. No one should be sticking a gun anywhere on their person without a holster. That's a disaster waiting to happen. Very surprised that S&W would agree to produce this, no doubt their lawyers gave the go ahead. Good luck suing if you shoot the gonads off.
With the long, heavy trigger pull on my J-Frames, it ain't gonna happen. It's hard enough to intentionally pull the trigger.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:25 PM
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Brazilian J frame??? It's just a relabeled Taurus?

I guess I'll just carry my 1982 Colt agent. My kids don't want it anyway when I'm gone.
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Old 07-16-2015, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
PLEASE DO NOT BUY THE WYATT DEEP COVER!

You DO NOT want ANYTHING associated with that shop!
Going to add my .02 to the above advice of poster Hapworth. Last I heard, the Model 637 Wyatt was mfg'd by the Performance Center at S&W. At least, the 2 that I own were. I understand the idea of this gun originated from a LGS that was featured in a TV reality show. I know absolutely nothing about the shop, but the PC-mfg'd 637 is a wonderful carry piece.

To carry the logic further, should the world stop using the 5-gallon "Jerrycan," one of the most useful containers imaginable and heavily used by the Allies in WWII, simply because it originated in Nazi Germany?

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Old 07-16-2015, 04:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
PLEASE DO NOT BUY THE WYATT DEEP COVER!

You DO NOT want ANYTHING associated with that shop!
I, like others, am curious as to the basis for this one. Other than the show being (as are all reality shows, IMHO) insipid, what's the deal with the shop itself?
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Old 07-16-2015, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
You need to qualify that kind of advice.
Pretty simple...

Just Google "Gunsmoke", "Wyatt", "ATF", "IRS", "consignment"
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Old 07-16-2015, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
Pretty simple...

Just Google "Gunsmoke", "Wyatt", "ATF", "IRS", "consignment"
Did it occur to you that a gun show with national attention such as this may in fact earn special attention from the anti-gun folks ? Especially when the show in question paints guns as a regular way of life for people ( which it is ) and something that, in the proper setting, can actually be fun and enjoyable ? I can imagine the Liberals pulling their hair out every time a commercial came on for one of the gun type shows, such as Top Shot,American Guns, or Sons of Guns.

And honestly, lets face it . The IRS and the BATFE are never wrong and never falsely accuse someone. And they are always the highest pillar of moral standard, right ?

I enjoyed watching all these shows ( as much as you can with ANY reality show anyway ). And thought it was good that someone finally put some airtime into showing the average person that guns can be fun and not all gun owners are scary, dangerous people.

Sorry for disrupting or derailing the thread.
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Old 07-16-2015, 06:38 PM
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I believe the underlying institutional purpose of the ATF (despite any published policy statements or the attitudes of any individual to the contrary) is to confiscate as many guns from "civilians" as they can get away with, to make as many citizens as possible ineligible to own guns, to ban as many guns as they can get away with, and to make it as difficult as they can get away with for the rest of us to buy, own and use the guns that are left.

Thought experiment: if this really was their underlying purpose, what would they do different than they do now? (Remember my qualifier: that they can get away with. For example, I think they tried it on with the ban on green tip 223 ammo and found they couldn't get away with it, so they backed off. Without the uproar, their ban would have stuck, regardless of any underlying law.)
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Old 07-16-2015, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petemacmahon View Post
As to the above quote - I just remarked the same in another post about a cracked 642. I've heard of many of them, but nary a 442.

I've had a 442 for probably 15 years or so, I've lost count. It has become my constant companion. It was one of the first run of +p certified air weights but does not have the +p marking. Right after I purchased it, I contacted S&W for that confirmation and they told some of the first batch did not get properly marked. I usually practice with light to normal 38 spl ammo. The only +ps that have ever been shot through it are my selected carry load - Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammunition 38 Special +P 135 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point. Believe me, I dislike shooting them more than the gun does!

You can't go wrong with a 442!
The frames of the 442/642 are made from the same aluminum alloy, so I can't see one being more prone to cracking than the other. I've came across several mentions about cracked 442 frames although perhaps not as many 642's. I imagine that might be the case simply because the 642 is more popular, so there's a lot more of them out there.

S&W 442 airweight cracked frame
  #37  
Old 07-16-2015, 06:55 PM
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My 442 (no lock) goes with me everywhere. Bought a Wilson Combat spring kit, took out the trigger rebound block and stoned it glass smooth, installed the heaviest spring to insure reliable primer pop. I also send a cylinder or two downrange regularly. It and it's brothers are made in the USA.
  #38  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F75gunslinger View Post
Did it occur to you that a gun show with national attention such as this may in fact earn special attention from the anti-gun folks ? Especially when the show in question paints guns as a regular way of life for people ( which it is ) and something that, in the proper setting, can actually be fun and enjoyable ? I can imagine the Liberals pulling their hair out every time a commercial came on for one of the gun type shows, such as Top Shot,American Guns, or Sons of Guns.

And honestly, lets face it . The IRS and the BATFE are never wrong and never falsely accuse someone. And they are always the highest pillar of moral standard, right ?

I enjoyed watching all these shows ( as much as you can with ANY reality show anyway ). And thought it was good that someone finally put some airtime into showing the average person that guns can be fun and not all gun owners are scary, dangerous people.

Sorry for disrupting or derailing the thread.
Yes, except that is not the case for Gunsmoke.

As a local, I have been in Wyatt's store on several occasions, even buying a few guns from him (my mistake). His reputation among local firearms enthusiasts is horrible (even before the show), and his treatment of customers (myself included) has been less than stellar. He also is a shyster, which he put on full display during American Guns (ever see the episode with the howdah pistol?)

Sorry, his "misfortune" is NOT a case of government retaliation- he brought upon himself...

Buy a 642, 442, 37, just not the Deep Cover.

Last edited by .455_Hunter; 07-16-2015 at 08:45 PM.
  #39  
Old 07-16-2015, 08:45 PM
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I believe the 642 being more popular than the 442 makes the cracked frame appear to be a more prevalent issue.

You're not going to find Brazil as a country of origin on any of these.
20150319_090613 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

The Taurus 85UL is a decent gun if money is a primary concern, but they sure are rough.
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  #40  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:22 PM
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I have developed some powder burn erosion in the frame above the barrel cone in my 442 should i be concerned. I have only shot a couple hundred rounds through this gun
  #41  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
Yes, except that is not the case for Gunsmoke.

As a local, I have been in Wyatt's store on several occasions, even buying a few guns from him (my mistake). His reputation among local firearms enthusiasts is horrible (even before the show), and his treatment of customers (myself included) has been less than stellar. He also is a shyster, which he put on full display during American Guns (ever see the episode with the howdah pistol?)

Sorry, his "misfortune" is NOT a case of government retaliation- he brought upon himself...

Buy a 642, 442, 37, just not the Deep Cover.
The Wyatt/Gunsmoke name on the gun, regardless of what he's done, doesn't negate the usefulness of the revolver or the fact that it's a nice package of upgrades for a small premium over a standard 637. There's a ton of products on the market that have links to business people that have broken the law and gone to jail, if you have personal issues with that don't buy the product. But, you can't deny that Martha Stewart's magazine is full of good advice, hints, and tips, regardless of her conviction and jail time. And, no one thinks you're a coke dealer if you choose to restore a DeLorean because you're a fan of the Back to the Future trilogy.

Wyatt might be a crook and a jerk, I don't know him. What I do know is that no matter who or what he is, the Wyatt 637 is a well built, well appointed, snubby with an excellent action. And if you look past the laser engraving you'll find a sweet little carry gun that too many people are ignoring and not giving it's due for the same reasons you are. I'll bet if I had one bead blasted and let 100 people like you shoot it and try it out, 99 of them would want one just like it.
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  #42  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
You're making a bunch of interesting initial posts starting out here.
I'm an interesting sort of person.
On a more serious note however I would strongly advise anyone looking at buying a S&W to give Ruger a closer look. Yes they too are a public co. that has to fill the needs of the investors but it seems S&W has gone way to far to the 'right' and are being run by a Mitt Romney capital venture types.

S&W like so many other things in America is only in name. They are about as American as Walmart is. Only good for collectors of vintage models. Who needs to spend the extra just for the name Smith & Wesson. And for them to now offer that so called life-time service warranty says a lot. Just another marketing gimmick, cause even they like Taurus, Charter Arms, Hyundai and Kia and all the rest who hype the life time warranties know their product lines are junk. Pure marketing gimmick to reel in the sheep.

What good does it do if's it's garbage to begin with and the aggravation to have to constantly send it back to be fixed. And S&W takes it even one step further by offering you an upgrade for extra money.

Nothing but Wall-Street pimps.
But that's how America rolls, build it as cheap as you can somewhere else and than screw the public over. We have no more sense of pride in this country, the kids today would still buy it even if a Muslim terrorist made it, as long as it said Smith & Wesson on it.
  #43  
Old 07-16-2015, 09:39 PM
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Go with the 442 Pro Moon Clip. Looks better than the 642, but still stainless. The moon clip option is great for quick, easy, reloads. I've had mine about 10 months...flawless.
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  #44  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samuel P. Morris View Post
@rogo12,

As been mention get what feels good to you and if it matters anything only the 642 snubs are made in America. All the other J-frame snubs are made at the Taurus plant in Brazil. (S&W's dirty little secret)
So you can be like a phony patriot on the forth of July stuffing your face with process apple pie while you wave your Chinese American flag and drink foreign brewed Budweiser.

"looky here ma I got me a genuine Smith & Wesson and you said I'd never amount to noth'n without a grade school education"
I too would like to see documentation to back up that post, which I think could most tactfully be described as provocative. And I am trying to be tactful. So far so good.
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  #45  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F75gunslinger View Post
And eventually I think that something will have to be done for them to continue.
It's been underway now for a few years. Ever wonder what this means,
'Marcas Registradas'.
  #46  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:11 PM
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+1 on 642 or 442 no lock version over the gunsmoke 637.

I've been carrying a 642 for a couple years. The finish wears off. But I don't care and have several hundred rounds through mine.

Honestly, you're not going to go wrong with either one.

As far as all the other nonsense on this thread...well I just don't know what to say...
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  #47  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .455_Hunter View Post
Yes, except that is not the case for Gunsmoke.

As a local, I have been in Wyatt's store on several occasions, even buying a few guns from him (my mistake). His reputation among local firearms enthusiasts is horrible (even before the show), and his treatment of customers (myself included) has been less than stellar. He also is a shyster, which he put on full display during American Guns (ever see the episode with the howdah pistol?)

Sorry, his "misfortune" is NOT a case of government retaliation- he brought upon himself...

Buy a 642, 442, 37, just not the Deep Cover.
My personal opinion, if S&W used his name to get more publicity , and to have someone who watched the show and enjoyed it buy the gun, it's a marketing strategy. Not unlike the Jerry Miculek line of guns. It's a marketing strategy. Not unlike the Bone Collector line of guns. A marketing strategy. Now whether or not Rich Wyatt is a decent guy or not isn't really up for debate. The OP asked what gun he should buy, a 442 or a 637 Deep Cover. On that basis, for the money involved, I would go for the Deep cover hands down. Because..

#1: It's a performance center model at a great price.

#2: I'm not a fan of black for the sake of black. The black coating on the cylinder and barrel, over time,won't hold up as well as stainless for everyday carry use.

#3: If I were to buy a regular 637, I would buy a spring kit, and spend the time changing springs and trying to get the action tuned better, and would still not be as nice as one done by the performance center.

#4: If I did said work to get the action smoother, and had an issue, S&W may not honor my warranty because i had been inside the gun.

#5: If I decided to sell the gun at a later date, all things being equal, a performance center model will hold value better than a plain jane airweight.
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  #48  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:14 PM
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Hello rogo123, I might have missed a reply, but what problems have you seen with the new Airweights?
  #49  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:15 PM
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Merrily we troll along...
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  #50  
Old 07-16-2015, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WC145 View Post
The Wyatt/Gunsmoke name on the gun, regardless of what he's done, doesn't negate the usefulness of the revolver or the fact that it's a nice package of upgrades for a small premium over a standard 637. There's a ton of products on the market that have links to business people that have broken the law and gone to jail, if you have personal issues with that don't buy the product. But, you can't deny that Martha Stewart's magazine is full of good advice, hints, and tips, regardless of her conviction and jail time. And, no one thinks you're a coke dealer if you choose to restore a DeLorean because you're a fan of the Back to the Future trilogy.

Wyatt might be a crook and a jerk, I don't know him. What I do know is that no matter who or what he is, the Wyatt 637 is a well built, well appointed, snubby with an excellent action. And if you look past the laser engraving you'll find a sweet little carry gun that too many people are ignoring and not giving it's due for the same reasons you are. I'll bet if I had one bead blasted and let 100 people like you shoot it and try it out, 99 of them would want one just like it.
That's fine if you want to buy one. I won't, and will gladly tell you why- kinda like not patronizing antigun businesses, even if the Levi's fit just perfect.

Wyatt was also well known for adding a Gunsmoke billboard to the slide of guns brought-in for simple gunsmithing, like adding an ambi-safety to a 1911, WITHOUT direct consent of the owner.

You should have seen the eyeroll from the S&W factory rep at the LGS last week when I asked him if they were going to keep making the Wyatt Special. They dropped him like a rotten potato. Just put the same features in a 637 Custom Shop Pro...
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