All,

I have a trip planned into eastern WA near Stehekin. I have been up there years ago and know there are quite a few black bear.. most of them 200lbs. They have never poised a threat, but due to the fact I will be solo in that area wilderness I would liie to take one of my S&Ws for protection. THe choices:

1) 686+ 3" 357 Mag with Buffalo Bore 180g HC

2) 329PD 4" 44 with Buffalo Bore Heavy 44 SPL

Please tell me your choice and why.. I chose those ammo choices because I have had much practice with both of them and feel comforatble shooting them.. I've never gotten comfortable shooting 44 mag in the 329PD. Honestly I feel the recoil in those revolvers and those specific loads to be quite similar.

I carry the BB load in my two S&W 65's around our home in north Georgia. If I go off hiking I carry something larger. In your case I believe I would tote the .44, as bigger is better.

I have done a LOT of solo backpacking the black bear country. I have a number of handgun choices close at hand. I would normally carry a 629 4" in bear country but would feel adequately armed with the .44 Special properly loaded. By properly loaded, I mean either the Skeeter Special (7.5 grs of Unique behind a 250 Keith or LBT WFN or the Keith load (a 250 gr SWC at 1200 fps from a 6" barrel).

According the Buffalo Bores web site the ammo you are using is about equivalent to the Skeeter load. I would feel adequately armed with this and I consider it at least one level better than the .357 (I have shot both extensively).

I have only shot one black bear (with a rifle in Canada). However, I have been in on the autopsy of about 35 black bears. They are much heavier constructed than large Whitetail deer, as an example and a wide meplat and large caliber bullet just simply works better. I would expect the Skeeter load or the BB load to get complete penetration on a black bear.

FWIW
Dale53

I would chose the 44 because I am old and that terrain is tough and 11 oz I don't have to carry, of a gun I hope not to use, would make my knees happier. To avoid the bruins while hiking in bear country, I keep a small plastic whistle in my mouth and blow through it alot. That ride on Lady of the Lake ferry is stunning, I hope the forest fires are knocked down by the time you go. Enjoy.

Why specials in the 329, why not magnums? Carry a can of bear spray too, may keep you from having to pull the trigger.

I have been researching bear spray recently, my son, who hikes/backpacks extensively in the Rockies is interested in some, he came to me for gun advice the other day too.

When is the trip planned? Right now you can't even get to Stehekin - the Chelan Complex and Wolverine wildfires have the area evacuated. Last best guess is the fires are about 30% contained.

I grabbed a couple of the webcam shots from Stehekin this morning off the Lake Chelan Tourism website. That's not fog...

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If those are the two choices I would take the .44. Also take a can of bear spray, sometimes it does work.

In close combat with a mountain lion a 357 mag snubbie in the waist band could save your life that's all I worry about. A rifle will stop a bear with a well placed shot.

The 329 PD, packs more BANG for the weight when needed weighs close to the 686.
We LOVES the Bear threads...PS dont forget to wear "Bells" but I would reach for the 329PD before the Bear spray:

Yes! We're way past due for a bear thread!

I'd want a .44 mag vs .357 but not sure I want to shoot one that light. It's liable to kill at both ends.

IMHO, Bears and the way they are constructed and
handguns. It's all about maximizing penetration to get
to vitals. Which translates to the heaviest solid bullet, at the highest velocity you ( or the gun ) can handle.

Me and my other half vacation every year by the BWCA
in NE Mn.. She carries the camera, and I carry the 4 in. 29
loaded with Federal 44 Mag / 300 grain SWC, and yeah,
it bites on the back end.

Keep in mind that it is shot placement more than caliber that counts. Which can you shoot the best? Which can you shoot the best under STRESS? Truth is, most of our bears will run from you. Of course......there are Griz in the North Cascades.......

Were it me, I'd feel comfortable with either. Heavy JSPs or solids in either one though.......

__________________
Even older, even crankier....

Bear season starts out here in a week.
The black bears are eating the corn left for the elk and deer.
Got that on the trail cam's.
I'll be out on the first of September hunting the one big one we keep catching on camera.
340 WBY Mark V and my M21 44 Special with 265 gr HP devastators I
mold with 12.5 gr of 2400.

__________________
Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

I been hunting bears with a 30-06 since 1973 to 1994 went I bumped up to a rem 700 in 338wm from '94 to the present day. It has the muzzle energy of a 30-06 @ 200yds.
At 100yds that's 2,700 ft.lbs. I can put two bullets through the same hole. I haven't been carrying a 44 mag revolver anymore. The 338wm has 4,000ft.lbs. at the muzzle. I purchased this rifle to possibly do a special hunt someday out west. Make sure you have enough rifle.
On my land in vt my camp walk around hiking gun is my 357mag. I feel plenty safe with that.

We forget that Elmer Keith has killed every North American game with the 357mag, the 41mag and the 44mag.

240 grain Swift A frame backed by 24 grains of 296 will serve you well in bear country. Yes, it will kick you but I guarantee you won't feel it if you have to shoot an angry sow bearing (pun intended) down on you!

I would take a Performance Center N Frame 629 44 Magnum at 37.6 oz. (Left Picture)

BUT, for hiking in bear country I would take off the wood grips and put a big pair of Hogue rubber on to deal with heavy loaded ammo.

Then, when you get home, the wood grips go back on, and you have an excellent .44 Magnum or .44 Special carry pistol. I have the .357 version of this weapon.

In .357 I would take a 586 L-Comp w/3" Barrel (Right Picture). This is also 37 oz., is a 7 shot, and has a front Tritium (Trijicon Site) with compensated barrel. AND, comes with two sets of grips, big rubber Hogues and the walnut. I have this weapon.

Another worthy carry is the Talo .44 Magnum (middle picture).

Left Picture 629 44 Magnum. Middle a Talo .44 Magnum. Right is the 586 L-Comp

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God I love the "What gun do I use for Bear" threads. There are as many opinions ever. So I'll give my $.02 worth.

I went to Alaska (in June and July) with my wife and another couple. My wife didn't think she needed anything. The other couple brought one can of bear spray. Me? I carried either my 6" Redhawk .44 Magnum loaded with Garrett's 44 Mag +p Hammerhead Ammo 330-gr SuperHardCast Long Hammerhead at 1400-fps. I've used, and shot this load. Don't buy some of this ammo and expect to just load'er up and think you all set to go. Noooooo, get some and practice, and get comfortable with it, know it's power and recoil. Or, I carry my 6.5" Smith and Wesson 500 Magnum loaded with Buffalo Bore 440 gr. L.F.N.-G.C.(1,625fps/M.E.2579ft.lbs.). I never want to be in a position and think.....Geeee I should've brought a bigger gun. When you got the biggest you never have to wonder.

I carry the .44 on my hip, but the 500 I use a chest rig.

And, it's also nice when you do happen upon a Grizz as we did two times (two real nice hefty 9 - 9 1/2' footers). The other folks always looked at me and said "You got your gun, right?" Yeaaaah I got it.

After we'd get back I would always ask....So, you still think that Bear Spray is a good idea?

There were times and places I had the gun in HAND while walking/fishing. Most of time it was holstered. But remember, unless it's in your hand, you may get one shot off and it better count!!! You won't run into one in an open field and have the time in the world. You're going to run into them in the bush or by the river when you are distracted doing something else. Be aware of your surroundings and know what signs to look for. If your smart about Bears you are way ahead of the game..........sometimes.

So my recommendation is take a .44 with hot lead loads at the minimum.

And I'd only take a .357 if I was VERY proficient in my shot placement and was cool and collected with 1000lbs of angry coming at me.

Good luck.

Yeah... .357 would be fine on this guy...uh...maybe . JK

44 magnum firing a solid bullet, such as flat point or a semi wadcutter.

If you're gonna be in the wilderness above Stehekin, be advised there are a few grizzlies up there. Take the spray!

And swimming trunks to get to Stehekin.

PS: There's no place to buy stuff in Stehekin, so you better have everything with you that you will need before you get on the "Lady".

I think encountering a bear this size in N. Central WA would be a once in a generation occurrence. Just my opinion from dozens of hikes and living in the Wenatchee National Forest for years.

Over the years I've progressed from a .45ACP (loaded with hard cast lead boolits) to a .357 to a .44. I don't see stepping up to a .454/.480 or an X Frame. If a 305gr .44 Magnum can't stop it at "bad breath range" I should have brought my .45/70 Guide Gun...

I'd carry the 329 loaded as hot as you can handle.

Take the 44.
BTW- Never go into the woods without the tools needed to survive a fire fight.
You never know what or who you are going to run into in the boonies.
Take a rifle. They might be extra weight,, but they are light as a feather and worth more than their weight in gold if you end up needing it.

Groo here
Take the one YOU feel the best shooting.
Both will do the job if you do yours.
Your not hunting, shots will be upclose and fast.
The weight diffeence will not be much different loaded.

I like Groo's coments. Both guns will do the job.

You said you're aware of 200 pound black bears. JK's monster bear would be an exception - you would need a rifle for that one.

Up close and fast you need a gun you can shoot well and handle quickly. I like the diea that you're not planning on .44 MAgnum rounds because up close and fast you need quick follow up shots and the .44 Specials will allow that as will the .357 Magnum rounds.

Last time I was in bear country I took a Ruger .357 Magnum, 4", Service Six. I practiced with it and was comfortable knowing I could shoot it well and quickly with .357 Magnum rounds. I know good and well that the speeds and accuracy I was getting would be impossible with .44 Magnum rounds.

Hunting is different. I probably wouldn't handgun hunt, it's not my thing, I like to rifle hunt, but a 6" .44 Magnum, scoped, yes, I can understand that. Or a .460 or a .500. But that's hunting. To get speed shots off accurately with those calibers you have to load them down. But that's basically what you're doing if you load .44 Specials into your .44 Magnum. Good choice.

Shhhhhh.......but the only reason I brought that Ruger with me was because I didn't want to put a 686+ on the plane. I'd not lose sleep over the loss of the Ruger and, as a matter of fact, I left it there for my next trip. YMMV always.

I love a bear thread!!!!!

Bigger is not necessarily better, when the .357 has better penetration than the .44 Special. Personally, of the choices, I'd go with the .357 magnum. My real choice is the .460 magnum. We travel in remote wilderness half the year.

To get speed shots off, you have to practice with the weapon you're going to carry. A .44 magnum is no worse than a .357 in that regard. When I carried a .357 on duty, I could put two rounds each in three pie plates, from the holster, at 15 feet in under two seconds. (Model 686) I duplicated the feat once with a .44 magnum (model 29 - factory loads). That was thirty years ago, though lol. A 460 is too heavy for a quick draw, but could still be brought into play quickly enough. Wouldn't want to try Tac-Tac these days with a 460 .Not sure enough of my grip anymore.

Just my luck I'd be the "one" from my generation.

And no, I'm not going and getting eaten so you all can hike without fear.

Mine too. A .460 Weatherby!

22LR. It's placement that counts.

Just kidding, but I'm surprised somebody hadn't said that! Of those two choices, I'd take the 44 special. I only have black bears in my area, but choice to carry medium 44 special loads over hot 357 loads. I just like the big heavy bullet.

When wilderness traveling my favorite was a Ruger Security Six loaded with 158 grain SJHPs. As much as I love single action revolvers, I'm as fast as polished steel with that setup. My canoe/backpacking trips were in Minnesota and southern states. In grizzly country I would go with at least a ,44 magnum with a heavy bullet.

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Riding, Shooting, and Truth

I PREFER CALIBERS BEGINNING WITH A .4, OVER CALIBERS BEGINNING WITH A .3, FOR DANGEROUS GAME. I THINK THE BB .44 SPL. LOAD SHOULD BE ADEQUATE FOR BLACK BEAR IN THE 200LB RANGE IN THE LOWER 48. IF YOU WERE HEADED UP TO ALASKA, YOU WOULD BE BETTER SERVED BY A HEAVIER .44 MAGNUM HANDGUN--A 629 OR PREFERABLY A RUGER, SHOOTING HARDCAST HEAVY BULLETS, LIKE GARRETT'S HAMMERHEADS…..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

We're assuming anyone taking a gun into bear country can place the rounds - otherwise the point is moot *grin*

I would definately want something starting with at least the number "4" then ending with the word "Magnum" for this little fella :


Better yet would be if starts with the number "5"

I suspect a decent hard SWC at medium to high velocity for a .44 special will penetrate amply. Don't know, and frankly, I doubt it is important now.

The fires in that area are so bad right now that the animals are running as fast as they can to stay ahead of them. Conditions are somewhere approaching horrible, and planning to go to any rural/hiking/camping area in most of central Washington is WAY past a bad idea. Here in Kittitas County, there are no fires at this time, but the air is bad. Up there, there are lots of fires, and the air is flat out dangerous from at least the west end of Chelan County over into ID. Your planned trip is a terrible idea and you have a good chance of being turned around at a road block if you are lucky.

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NHI, 10-8.

I HATE THAT "..YOU GOT YOUR GUN, RIGHT?..." Question. If a bear did show up---I would let that bear eat them.

Your going through the trouble of carrying, you may get charged with a crime or have to pay a big fee, you, you, you.

THEY---would likely say something stupid like "...he did not really have to shoot it", etc. etc.

I think Doug M's comment has some merit to it. I spent some time in Okanagon National Forest in the early 90's fighting forest fires. I would not want to be vacationing in the area with wildfires. You may be better suited to carrying a fire blanket in easy reach then a firearm.

Update: this is the area about which you inquiring. Harsh and unforgiving is an unduly generous description of the conditions. That camping trip needs to be put off a month or more.

Fire danger forces closure of forestlands north of Hwy. 2, east of Cascades crest | The Seattle Times
Updated August 28, 2015 at 6:49 pm

Rising temperatures and increased winds complicated firefighting efforts Thursday in North Central Washington, while the high fire danger prompted the U.S. Forest Service to close a swath of forestlands north of Highway 2 and east of the Cascades crest.

The closure includes a major portion of the Okanogan-Wenatchee National Forest’s Wenatchee River Ranger District. The district totals approximately 696,000 acres and extends from near the city of Wenatchee and the Columbia River to the crest of the Cascades in the Glacier Peak and Alpine Lakes wilderness areas.

“This is not a decision that has been taken lightly,” District Ranger Jeff Rivera said in a written statement Thursday. “Our primary concern is for public and firefighter safety.”

The closure to public entry will be lifted as soon as the wildfire threat abates, but rainfall predicted for this weekend probably will not be enough to end that threat, he said.

The forest closure includes all National Forest land in the Wenatchee River Ranger District north of Highway 2, except the district’s portions of the high-elevation Pacific Crest Trail.

The National Weather Service issued a red-flag warning for the Okanogan complex of fires, saying the weather conditions had the potential to spread the flames.

“The heat coming back on us early is going to be a problem,” said Rick Isaacson, fire information officer for the Okanogan complex fire that grew to 450 square miles on Thursday.

The blazes killed three firefighters last week and have burned at least 40 homes and 40 outbuildings.

Four firefighters were injured Wednesday while working on the Okanogan complex. Isaacson said a fifth firefighter was taken to the hospital for what he called a “medical injury.”

He did not know the medical issue or which hospital he was taken to.

The three others’ injuries were minor, he said, and firefighters returned to work shortly after being treated.

Isaacson said firefighters have been hampered by bees along with fire, particularly on the east side of the complex.

“There were lots of bee stings … but there’s no lost time with those,” he said.

He said crews were working to protect houses in the Aeneas Valley, east of the fires, which have flared up on recent afternoons.

Fire officials were less concerned Thursday about the North Star and Okanogan complex fires merging, Isaacson said.

“It’s not closing very fast toward the North Star. It’s looking very good to keep those apart,” he said.

The North Star fire grew about 4,000 acres since Wednesday, said Clifton Russell, a fire-information officer. Containment on the 270-square-mile blaze was about 22 percent Wednesday night, according to the government fire website InciWeb.

He said firefighters have been working to protect the town of Republic, Ferry County, by using controlled burns to create fire breaks and bulldozing fire lines. The fire remained more than 5 miles from town.

More than 1,150 square miles of Washington are on fire, nearly the size of Rhode Island, the state Department of Natural Resources (DNR) said.

Gov. Jay Inslee visited North Central Washington on Thursday. He spoke in Chelan before traveling to meet firefighters on the lines.

“This is not just a local fire, it’s a statewide slow-motion disaster,” he said.

The governor met with about 20 members of the National Guard fighting a fire near Lake Chelan. They worked to protect about a half-dozen homes.

“Trying to predict what the fire is going to do is one of the hardest things,” guardsmen Casey Stockwell said.

Homeowner Jake Kneisley, 41, leaned against a car near his two-story home. Kneisley said he was up all night watching the fire.

“I feel incredibly lucky these people are here for us,” Kneisley said as firefighters worked nearby.
More wildfire updates

• A four-mile procession of honor will recognize the three firefighters killed last week, in tandem with their memorial service in Wenatchee on Sunday.

Richard Wheeler, 31, Andrew Zajac, 26, and Tom Zbyszewski, 20, died Aug. 19 in the Methow Valley’s Twisp River Fire.

Their fellow firefighter Daniel Lyon, 25, was severely burned in the incident and remains hospitalized.

Organizers said the procession will begin about 11:15 a.m. Sunday from a staging area at the Olds Station Big Lots parking lot and travel to Town Toyota Center, where the memorial will be held.

The procession will include fellow wildland firefighters and their vehicles, an event team member said.

The service is set to begin at 1 p.m.

• The DNR says it will close three volunteer intake offices on Thursday afternoon. The offices are in Omak, Colville and Castle Rock.

Thousands of people applied in the past week to help battle the wildfires.

The department says that among the applicants it found 315 heavy-equipment operators and identified more than 100 pieces of previously unregistered equipment that could be called upon if needed.

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NHI, 10-8.

Thanks all for your comments and insight! Rest assured my trip is canceled this year due to said fires. I may try to get up to the BWCA for a quick fall trip... But I have never carried a S&W up there!

FOUR - FIVE - EIGHT... Winchester type... Nothing less