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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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Old 10-08-2015, 03:45 PM
AZ_M&P AZ_M&P is offline
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Default Sort of a piggyback on the "Cylinder Swells" Thread

I wasn't ever gonna ask about this because I think I know the answer, but since I read the other thread I though I might as well pipe up.

I've got an airweight J-frame .38 Special +P that doesn't see a whole lot of use (I didn't buy it for recreation) but from time to time I put some rounds through it just to make sure I can hit the proverbial side of a barn if I need to.

Since I bought this gun, I've noticed that after 20-30 rounds, it becomes more difficult to load the cylinder and dump the empties... my assumption is that these guns aren't designed for this kind of continued shooting, so I'm seeing some slight expansion in the cylinder metal due to heat.

Am I right, or is there something else going on?
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Old 10-08-2015, 03:58 PM
Hopper Hopper is offline
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I suspect it's carbon buildup inside the cylinder walls as you are shooting. With a K-frame, this happens when you shoot a cylinder or two of 38 Specials, then go to 357 rounds. It's normal IMO, unless someone else chimes in differently.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:10 PM
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If it got hot it would expand not contract so I would agree with the Hopper the carbon buildup sounds like the cause.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:17 PM
AZ_M&P AZ_M&P is offline
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If it got hot it would expand not contract so I would agree with the Hopper the carbon buildup sounds like the cause.
Right... but expanding metal around an open cylinder would make the cylinder smaller (metal expands in all directions, not just "out").

I like the carbon explanation though, makes a lot of sense.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:41 PM
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IMO, I don't think these guns typically get hot enough that the metal will expand sufficiently to notice it. As previously stated, the fouling is likely to cause issues. Perhaps some fouling can expand due to heat.

Shooting shorter cased ammo, like .44 Special in a .44 Magnum, will leave deposits in the chambers. This can cause .44 mag casings to stick some.
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Old 10-08-2015, 05:51 PM
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I hate to say it but some one has to:

It appears your carbon build-up is swelling.
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Old 10-08-2015, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_M&P View Post
Right... but expanding metal around an open cylinder would make the cylinder smaller (metal expands in all directions, not just "out").
I have headed a lot of pieces of metal. If you heat a piece with a hole in it the hole gets bigger. Some large gears are fit onto the shaft by heating the gear in an oven and then placing on the shaft.
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Old 10-08-2015, 11:36 PM
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OK, I believe your gun is 38 special only, right?
Clean it really good, oil it where it needs it, and go shooting. I have run 200 rounds through a J frame at one range trip without issue.

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Old 10-09-2015, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_M&P View Post
Right... but expanding metal around an open cylinder would make the cylinder smaller (metal expands in all directions, not just "out").
.
Morning AZ_M&P

It doesn't work like that-- heating the cylinder expands the entire cylinder & opens the chamber holes slightly. Same as heating a tight bearing to slide it on a shaft.
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:44 PM
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I would guess that for your revolver to heat up to the point that metal expansion becomes an issue you probably would not be able to hold on to it. As much as I like S&W, I don't want its logo branded into my hand.
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Old 10-09-2015, 12:57 PM
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Default This is a little counter intuitive but......

When an object with holes drilled in it is heated and expands, the diameter of the holes grow as well as the outside dimensions. So, heating is not the problem.
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Old 10-09-2015, 04:40 PM
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One thing I learned long ago was to dump empty chambers with the muzzle pointing straight up. Unfired powder and residue should mostly go out to the ground instead of behind the extractor.
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Old 10-09-2015, 05:09 PM
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Have you tried different ammo? One thought I had is that with it being and Airweight J-frame the ammo could be too hot for the chambers. This might cause the ammo casing to expand to the point where it is difficult to eject. Another thought is that the chambers may need polishing. I would try different ammo first as well as a full cleaning.
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Old 10-09-2015, 07:22 PM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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Default Darn Physics!

Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_M&P View Post
Right... but expanding metal around an open cylinder would make the cylinder smaller (metal expands in all directions, not just "out").

I like the carbon explanation though, makes a lot of sense.
A good demonstration of basic physics is to take a ring of metal like steel or iron with a hole of known diameter at room temp and heat the ring uniformly to fairly hot. Then pass a ball or rod of known diameter larger than the original hole thru said hole. Yes the dimension of the ring from outer diameter wall to inner diameter wall will grow, but not nearly enough to close down the size of the inner opening after heat expansion. This principle of heat expansion in metal objects is used often to affect what is termed a "Heat Shrink Fit" for a part going inside another part during assembly.

I too agree that the OP's extraction problem is just crud buildup from firing 38 special in a 357 mag chamber. ..............
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Old 10-09-2015, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
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I too agree that the OP's extraction problem is just crud buildup from firing 38 special in a 357 mag chamber. ..............
Can one of you all explain how that is a viable conclusion when in the OP's post specifically mentioned that it is a .38 Special?

"I've got an airweight J-frame .38 Special +P"

Unless I'm mistaken, the gun in the pic is indeed an Airweight Centennial... I kind of doubt that it's chambered in anything other than a .38 Special, so firing rounds of shorter length special brass before switching to magnum rounds with longer bass, and experiencing difficult case extraction/ejection is definitely not the issue here.

What first needs to be established is exactly what ammo is being used.. factory new, remanufactured, reloaded?

He's having an issue with loading and then expelling the fired cases after only firing 20-30 rounds?? Unless he's firing the thing Jerry Miculek style with the rapid reloads where he's putting 20-30 rounds out in record time... heat build up shouldn't come into play, there's got to be some out of the ordinary circumstances, such as maybe his gun has undersized chambers?

But first ammo needs to be eliminated as a possible cause before looking at the gun.
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Old 10-09-2015, 11:55 PM
Big Cholla Big Cholla is offline
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OOPS! :-) As I've been told more than once, "first, read the problem." I still think that the problem is crud buildup in the chambers from dirty 38 special loading. Some factory loads are far worse than others for creating that sort of crud buildup. The purpose of using brass cartridges is that brass is of low tensile strength and will allow 'obturation' within the chamber while the ignition/powder burning process is taking place. In other words the brass case swells up and mostly seals the chamber preventing much in the way of gases and the crud of burning powder residue to come backwards. Some brass cases are relatively thicker than other and therefore will obturate less letting more crud to come backwards and buildup in the chamber. There is a good chance this is happening with the OP's 38 Special chambered handgun. :-)
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