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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 10-21-2015, 08:05 PM
1851navy 1851navy is offline
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Default Serial number removed from grip M65

I just bought a used model 65-7. I took off the grips to see if it was a round or square butt gun and noticed that the serial number was not on the frame butt and it appears to me that it was removed. I believe that it was a former police revolver and i was curious to see if there was a reason a department would do that or is the butt just scratched and i have lost my marbles

Thanks
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Old 10-21-2015, 08:14 PM
wsr wsr is offline
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I do believe that's a federal felony.I take it you didn't buy it from a shop
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Old 10-21-2015, 10:59 PM
1851navy 1851navy is offline
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I purchased it from a online FFL dealer and did the paperwork from a local dealer. The revolver still has the serial number on the frame under the crane from the factory. It also has the serial number one the frame just below the cylinder. (see pic) Based on my other smiths, someone else put it there although it appears professional. I'm not sure how it would be a felony if it still retains a factory number in at least one of the factory locations but it seems strange which is why i'm asking.
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:05 PM
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Sorry, I read it as the serial# on the side was the only number of
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:07 PM
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Normal. Check the side of the grip frame. The newer guns have the serial there. I believe this is not an altered gun, but original. I have a 696-1 that was the same way
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Old 10-21-2015, 11:07 PM
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Messing with a serial number is a federal crime as a rule, but not always.

Some times there are legit reasons to do so, and some times the ATF gives permission. Not at all common.
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Old 10-22-2015, 02:49 AM
GerSan69 GerSan69 is offline
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+1 on what Jim said. I have seen one like that around here someplace.... Is it on the side of the grip frame at the bottom, by the stock locating pin, next to the "normal" location?
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Old 10-22-2015, 04:26 AM
k22fan k22fan is offline
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On relatively recent guns the serial number is marked on the frame in two places. During the 1990s I bought a new S&W revolver that had as one of those two places the side of the frame below the cylinder widow and another revolver with a s/n on the under side of the top strap. Other than both were stainless I don't recall which models they were or the locations of their duplicate serial numbers.
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Old 10-22-2015, 05:57 AM
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By law, the portion of the firearm that makes it a firearm is the frame; provided the correct serial number is located somewhere on the frame, I believe all's in order.

I once saw a square butt K-frame listed by a well-known online purveyor of used S&Ws; its barrel was chopped to snubby, and the grip was chopped, too -- a K-frame cut to J-frame dimensions.

Interesting, but I contacted them over concern about the removed serial number. They were quite certain that because the serial was also stamped at the yoke area of the frame, there were no BATF issues.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hapworth View Post
By law, the portion of the firearm that makes it a firearm is the frame; provided the correct serial number is located somewhere on the frame, I believe all's in order.

I once saw a square butt K-frame listed by a well-known online purveyor of used S&Ws; its barrel was chopped to snubby, and the grip was chopped, too -- a K-frame cut to J-frame dimensions.

Interesting, but I contacted them over concern about the removed serial number. They were quite certain that because the serial was also stamped at the yoke area of the frame, there were no BATF issues.
I do not doubt that they were "quite certain" that they wanted to make a sale but that does not make the gun legal. In addition to checking federal law any one considering buying it would also have to check their local laws.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:22 AM
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As stated above in my post. These guns were shipped with the serial number NOT on the Butt of the Frame. It's in the side of the Frame from Factory and most likely on the Grip Frame up higher in the side.

This is not BATF Issue At All.
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Old 10-22-2015, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jjbrewst1 View Post
As stated above in my post. These guns were shipped with the serial number NOT on the Butt of the Frame. It's in the side of the Frame from Factory and most likely on the Grip Frame up higher in the side.

This is not BATF Issue At All.
Agreed. Hapworth introduced a different revolver into the discussion. The revolver Hapworth described would not be legal in Washington State and as I understand federal it would not be legal under the national law also.
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Old 10-22-2015, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k22fan View Post
Agreed. Hapworth introduced a different revolver into the discussion. The revolver Hapworth described would not be legal in Washington State and as I understand federal it would not be legal under the national law also.
Yes; the first part of my previous post was intended to address OP's concern.

As to the revolver I mentioned, I was extremely skeptical and even concerned for the dealer, which is why I contacted them. They're established and well-known and I would think have all their ducks in a row on such matters. They were firm and since I had no intention of owning that particular firearm anyway, I dropped it. Stayed listed for a while, too, so presumably I didn't alert them to anything as they saw it.

I can't find any clear legal direction on scenarios in which a firearm has the original manufacturer's serial number in two locations on the frame, and one is removed. Seems that would count under ATF's "altered" stipulation, but all the wording on the matter appears within the context of a single and only serial number defaced or removed.

Who wants to roll the dice with that situation anyway? I wouldn't touch it...
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Old 10-22-2015, 01:22 PM
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Looks entirely normal to me. In the era 2000 to 2002 S&W inscribed s/n's on the left side of revolvers under the frame window. Just as the OP's first picture shows.

They did this for most standard product. Your gun would of been made in that time frame. ("CFE", likely April - May 2002). S&W marked s/n's this way for a while, then they stopped and reverted back to the traditional marking method, which is still in use.
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Old 10-22-2015, 06:12 PM
1851navy 1851navy is offline
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The only markings on the side of the grip frame are the crane number and another number other than the serial number. I guess the butt is just scratched. It seemed weird to me. I have a older model 64 and a newer 686 both have the numbers on the butt so i jumped to conclusions.

Thanks for your help.
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