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S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present All NON-PINNED Barrels, the L-Frames, and the New Era Revolvers


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  #1  
Old 11-29-2015, 12:28 PM
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Default What Jerry Miculek did to the 625

I loved my 5-inch 625, but I was forced to sell it years ago. I'm trying to replace it, but all I see are Jerry Miculek 4-inch models with wood grips. If Jerry won speed shooting with a 5-inch model, then why is his namesake cut down to 4"?
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:35 PM
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I'm not a competitive shooter, but I believe there is a 4" limit on revolvers in some types competition (e.g., IDPA).

As for the grip, it's the type of grip JM likes. He has said he doesn't like finger groove grips as they only fit a small fraction of people.

Of course, grips are personal. I like the JM wood grips, but some people hate them.
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Old 11-29-2015, 12:38 PM
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The 5" 625 that once ruled USPSA revolver was rendered obsolete by the minor 8-shot revolver rule change. Mr Miculek no longer shoots the 625 in USPSA competition to my knowledge. There is a little demand for the 4" 625 in IDPA. It is practically dead in ICORE. I don't know how long the 625 will stay in current production.

Might try the used market for a 5" 625.

There are a few guns that I can't be "forced" to sell, but that's just me.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:02 PM
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Same here.

I used to hunt deer with mine, handloaded 45SUPER

the full moon clips are so easy to load and unload quietly


I traded it for a 629, thinking, I could always buy another, but then the 4" got popular in IDPA, and the 5" disappeared

I know an IDPA shooter who had his 5" cut to 4" to stay legal in IDPA years ago

The 5" 625 is at the top of my list of guns I wish I never sold
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:25 PM
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JM shot 4" 625 at last IDPA national at SW
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Old 11-30-2015, 09:25 PM
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finding a non-JM 625 5 inch is a challenge... luckily I got mine when they dumped them switching to the 4 inch... but my brother is having a tough time matching my collection...too bad so sad for him...lol
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:59 AM
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Default Just got another JM Special

Got my first JM Special in 2006. It was not as good (for me) shooting bullseye as was my Model 1989 with the full lug barrel. The 1989 was better in timed and rapid fire, and also had a slight edge in accuracy. Got my next in 2012 for the low price of $400, but had an offer to sell soon thereafter for $1500. No hesitation. Been looking for one since 2012 and finally had the opportunity.






Took it shooting yesterday for the first time and found out a few things I'd forgotten about this gun. Even though the barrel is on straight the rear sight blade is well off to the right for the sights to center up the group. It also recoils significantly more than the 1989 with the same round. Lighter weight and all of it comes off the front of the barrel. Slower to come back on target in rapid fire, at least when shot one handed. The action is superb and the accuracy is very good given I was shooting ammo not tailored to the gun.

In my opinion, JM moved away from the 625 platform for several reasons:
a. Limited round count
b. Too much recoil
c. Too much cylinder inertia (all you old PPC shooters know what I'm talking about)

The other JM Specials using 38 Super and now 9mm improve upon the original in all three areas.

Keith
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Old 12-01-2015, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cprher View Post
Got my first JM Special in 2006. It was not as good (for me) shooting bullseye as was my Model 1989 with the full lug barrel. The 1989 was better in timed and rapid fire, and also had a slight edge in accuracy. Got my next in 2012 for the low price of $400, but had an offer to sell soon thereafter for $1500. No hesitation. Been looking for one since 2012 and finally had the opportunity.






Took it shooting yesterday for the first time and found out a few things I'd forgotten about this gun. Even though the barrel is on straight the rear sight blade is well off to the right for the sights to center up the group. It also recoils significantly more than the 1989 with the same round. Lighter weight and all of it comes off the front of the barrel. Slower to come back on target in rapid fire, at least when shot one handed. The action is superb and the accuracy is very good given I was shooting ammo not tailored to the gun.

In my opinion, JM moved away from the 625 platform for several reasons:
a. Limited round count
b. Too much recoil
c. Too much cylinder inertia (all you old PPC shooters know what I'm talking about)

The other JM Specials using 38 Super and now 9mm improve upon the original in all three areas.

Keith

What exactly is that? Looks like a PC pre-lock.

That looks like EXACTLY what I want in a .45 ACP revolver.: 5" barrel, good for USPSA, completes a 3-gun S&W battery should I take up bullseye, and a great all-round revolver.
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Old 12-01-2015, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
What exactly is that? Looks like a PC pre-lock.

That looks like EXACTLY what I want in a .45 ACP revolver.: 5" barrel, good for USPSA, completes a 3-gun S&W battery should I take up bullseye, and a great all-round revolver.
It is a 625-7 Jerry Miculek Special by the Performance Center. About as good as a custom 45ACP revolver gets in my opinion. Mechanically VERY sound, but has a few cosmetic issues I'm addressing.
Keith
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Old 12-01-2015, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by cprher View Post
It is a 625-7 Jerry Miculek Special by the Performance Center. About as good as a custom 45ACP revolver gets in my opinion. Mechanically VERY sound, but has a few cosmetic issues I'm addressing.

Keith

Thanks Keith. It's now at the top of list.

Some other stuff will likely go on the block as I bet those puppies ain't cheap.

5" bbl is perfect all-around and I don't like full-lug barrels so that looks about perfect to me.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:17 PM
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Hmm, according to SCSW, that PC model was a -6 with a later -7.

Trying to find out how many were made to get a clue if it's worth the search. I've never seen one before so I'm guessing not many.
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Old 12-01-2015, 07:39 PM
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Default Some additional pics with original grips...







Keith
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Old 12-01-2015, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
The 5" 625 that once ruled USPSA revolver was rendered obsolete by the minor 8-shot revolver rule change. Mr Miculek no longer shoots the 625 in competition to my knowledge. There is a little demand for the 4" 625 in IDPA. It is practically dead in ICORE. I don't know how long the 625 will stay in current production.

Might try the used market for a 5" 625.

There are a few guns that I can't be "forced" to sell, but that's just me.

I agree there's liable to be a bunch hitting the used market soon.
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Old 12-01-2015, 11:57 PM
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cprher - rear sight blade is well off to the right
My 25-9 had the same issue. Checking into this, I found the front sight blade was .007" off the center line of the ramp base and barrel. Looking straight down on the top of the barrel with good even light, the difference between the left and right flats either side of the blade was visible to my naked eye.
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Old 12-02-2015, 02:42 PM
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Rather than starting a new thread, I thought you'd all enjoy continuing this one with the results of today's shooting session. I took the 625 JM Special to the range and used a lead bullet reload I'd developed years ago for shooting bullseye using my 625-2 Model 1989 with a 5" barrel. In that gun, this load would hold X ring from the bench at 25 yards. However, in this gun, shot at 25 yards from the bench, it did this, about a 50% increase in group size.



I don't fault the gun, but rather recognized that a load developed for one gun does not necessarily translate into good performance in another. Some other observations: I didn't care for the original grips, and after today don't particularly care for the Hogue wood Monogrips either, on this gun at least. The top of the grip regularly hammered the thumb knuckle of my shooting hand and after a few cylinder fulls this got rather uncomfortable. Therefore, I've now gone to the Hogue rubber Monogrips since I'll be using this gun a lot in practice.




The gun had obviously been used quite a bit before I got it and had not been taken care of to the degree I would have. The finish of the frame, especially under the grips had not been kept up, and several scratches had never been addressed. I took 1500 grit wet/dry sand paper and removed all scratches, then rubbed the frame down with J-B Bore Bright (not Bore Paste). That brought the finish back to almost an exact match to the original factory finish. While I had it apart I also installed a .002" end shake bearing which effectively removed 100% of the observable end shake, but not tight enough to bind the cylinder. The cylinder spins freely and the B/C gap is now a very consistent .007".

Next up is testing some additional loads I have. I've got a lot of ammo to go through before I even think of reloading for this gun.

Keith

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Old 12-04-2015, 09:36 AM
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Thanks for prolonging the torture, Keith:-)


I lay awake at night trying to figure out how to find one if those.
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:19 PM
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Default OK, last post...I promise

Before going to the range today to further test my JM Special, I jerked those ugly rubber grips off and instead installed a pair of Nill Classic grips that came from my 625-5 Classic in 45 Colt. My experience with them on that gun told me that they would not punish my hand and would give me excellent control. I'm in the process of ordering a set of checkered Classic grips from John Culina to replace the Nills on the 625-5. Here are the Nills on the JM Special.




As expected, these grips worked perfectly for the entire shooting session, almost 100 rounds. The ammo I tested were the following:
a. 185 grain Remington JWC (.452") over 4.2 grains of Vit N310. This is my premier bullseye load developed for my 1911s and in those guns shoots 1.5" at 50 yards.
b. 180 grain Laser Cast LSWC over 4.2 grains of Vit N310. This has performed very well in my 625-2 bullseye gun, holding X ring at 25 yards.
c. 200 grain Laser Cast LSWC over 5.0 grains of Win 231. This is a good every day load for IDPA and general practice.

The Remington JWC. 12 rounds at 25 yards using a 6 o'clock hold. The two shots outside the group are from the first 6. I then zero'd the gun for this load with a POI at the X ring.


The 180 grain Laser Cast. No sight change from previous, but a marked change in POI.



The 200 grain Laser Cast. No sight change from previous.


Note: The gun had a gold bead front sight that I found difficult to use when trying for maximum accuracy. My eyes had a tough time focusing on one point on the front sight. On a black front sight this is not the case with me. I just focus on the top edge. But the gold bead preventing me from really seeing a defined top edge of the sight. I've since gone back to a black patridge front sight.

Keith
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:48 PM
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On all of my recent purchases, my "go to" grips have been the Hogue impact absorbing square butt conversion grips used on the X-Frames, the onset of arthritis in my shooting hand now mandates it.

They fit the K-L-N frames as well, as when S&W standardized those as round butt frames, they all have a K-Frame sized grip frame, as does the mighty X-Frame.

Many people have the same issue with the gold bead from sight, and go with the Hi-Viz, but that can also be troublesome with the square rear sight notch.

The 625-8 JM uses the same .250" height front sight blade as the 629 DX Classic, Numrich (Gun Parts Corp) sells a DX red-ramped front sight blade, I've been thinking about trying it.
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Old 12-04-2015, 03:52 PM
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For precision I like a plain black post, preferably about 1/10" thick on barrels under 6" so I can see a little daylight.
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Old 12-14-2015, 12:25 AM
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I heard JM uses corn starch powder with his grips to make it slippery.
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Old 12-14-2015, 11:11 AM
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I have an ordinary 625JM. (2008) It is 1 of my favorites! Changed the wood more than a few times. It's current status seems favorable to me. Also add Hi-Viz front sight. Good for some of us old guys. Bob
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
The 5" 625 that once ruled USPSA revolver was rendered obsolete by the minor 8-shot revolver rule change. Mr Miculek no longer shoots the 625 in USPSA competition to my knowledge. There is a little demand for the 4" 625 in IDPA. It is practically dead in ICORE. I don't know how long the 625 will stay in current production.

Might try the used market for a 5" 625.

There are a few guns that I can't be "forced" to sell, but that's just me.
The above post is correct. In addition it is also true that Jerry no longer shoots the USPSA Revolver Nationals. His reasons have never been announced but he is more than 60 YO.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jtcarm View Post
Hmm, according to SCSW, that PC model was a -6 with a later -7.

Trying to find out how many were made to get a clue if it's worth the search. I've never seen one before so I'm guessing not many.
If the number of these guns produced is important to you, try getting in touch with Camfour distributors. SCSW believes Camfour ordered the gun in some number from S&W. The big unknown then would be the number S&W produced as over-runs. They often do this but don't keep track of the number so produced. This is also why collectors get in arguments about what the "correct" configuration is.
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Old 12-14-2015, 01:21 PM
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I heard JM uses corn starch powder with his grips to make it slippery.
This is true. He told me he does it so he can adjust his hand position on the stocks easily. Most revolver shooters go the other direction and try to keep their hand from slipping. Different strokes.
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Old 12-14-2015, 05:49 PM
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This is true. He told me he does it so he can adjust his hand position on the stocks easily. Most revolver shooters go the other direction and try to keep their hand from slipping. Different strokes.
the grip on his 3-gun rifle is an old surplus M16A1 grip that he knocked the molded checkering off and polished smooth, so he can quickly slide into position.
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Old 12-15-2015, 04:03 PM
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Here is a 5 incher on GB
RARE 5" Smith & Wesson M625 Model Of 1989 45ACP : Revolvers at GunBroker.com
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Old 12-15-2015, 07:22 PM
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dear Santa...This is what I really want this year
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Old 12-15-2015, 11:41 PM
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I have a non JM 4-inch 625-8. Very accurate revolver, easy to shoot comfortably. One of my faves.
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Old 12-18-2015, 12:22 AM
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This is true. He told me he does it so he can adjust his hand position on the stocks easily. Most revolver shooters go the other direction and try to keep their hand from slipping. Different strokes.

Yep.

Super-smooth grips, deeply-serrated triggerWhat Jerry Miculek did to the 625
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Old 12-18-2015, 02:03 AM
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Default Model 25-9 Front sight off center

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cprher - rear sight blade is well off to the right
My 25-9 had the same issue. Checking into this, I found the front sight blade was .007" off the center line of the ramp base and barrel. Looking straight down on the top of the barrel with good even light, the difference between the left and right flats either side of the blade was visible to my naked eye.
Mine was too - .007" Must have been cut on the same CNC same day.
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Old 12-19-2015, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by OKFC05 View Post
The 5" 625 that once ruled USPSA revolver was rendered obsolete by the minor 8-shot revolver rule change. Mr Miculek no longer shoots the 625 in USPSA competition to my knowledge. There is a little demand for the 4" 625 in IDPA. It is practically dead in ICORE. I don't know how long the 625 will stay in current production.

Might try the used market for a 5" 625.

There are a few guns that I can't be "forced" to sell, but that's just me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by S&WIowegan View Post
The above post is correct. In addition it is also true that Jerry no longer shoots the USPSA Revolver Nationals. His reasons have never been announced but he is more than 60 YO.
Not so fast! The M25s and M625s may well reign again.

ICORE implemented a new division called "Limited Six" (effective Jan 1, 2016) - which means moon-clipped six-shooters.
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  #32  
Old 12-19-2015, 09:40 AM
S&WIowegan S&WIowegan is offline
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I think ICORE also has a "Classic" division for guys who want to compete with speed loaders. This is for the people who hate moonclips.
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  #33  
Old 12-19-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by S&WIowegan View Post
I think ICORE also has a "Classic" division for guys who want to compete with speed loaders. This is for the people who hate moonclips.
I don't think you are required to hate moon clips!

But yes, "Classic" Div is for NON-moon-clipped SIX shot revolvers.
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Old 12-19-2015, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by S&WIowegan View Post
I think ICORE also has a "Classic" division for guys who want to compete with speed loaders. This is for the people who hate moonclips.
I'm pretty sure you could compete in the classic division with a 625JM if you use Autorim and speed loaders.
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