Ruger makes a single action 45acp w/o moon clips & s&w can not or will not? some folks just hate moon clips. I know it's fast when you are using them. Why can't s&w make revolvers with cylinders that hold the 45acp in? some technical difficulty with double action vs single action?

It's not a matter of making "revolvers that hold .45ACP in." It's getting the empties back out efficiently that requires moon clips in most double actions including Ruger Redhawks. Ruger single action Blackhawks use that ejector rod that is so conspicuously attached to their barrels to get .45 ACP empties back out.

Except for the Governor which has deep chambers for .410 shotgun shells S&W .45 ACP revolvers fire .45 ACPs without moon clips just fine. The empties that do not fall out with the revolver pointed up can be quickly flicked out using your finger nail in their extractor grooves. Thats a lot quicker than reloading a single action. .45 Auto Rim cases have extra thick rims to fill the gap behind .45 ACP cylinders that's there to make room for moon clips. Using .45 Auto Rim cartridges makes S&W and Colt .45 ACP double actions function the same as .38 specials.

Charter Arms makes a .45acp revolver that does not require moon clips. There are small springs in the cylinder that grip the rim of the cartridge. It has good reports.

When I had a 25-2, I rarely used clips.

I have a 25-2 and a 625. I don't have to use moonclips. Just pull them out with your fingers. I do have a BMT tool that makes loading and unloading moonclips easy.

It's interesting that S&W could have built a 45acp revolver based on the same design as the model 547. That 9mm revolver has a fairly complex extractor that let the empties eject like any other rimmed cartridge revolver. My understanding is that it was cost prohibitive to continue production, as well as the mechanism being fairly intricate and a little delicate. IMO, the moon clip is one of the best ideas for loading a revolver. It is much easier and faster to use than a speed loader. The clips are a pain to load and unload, but with the proper tool it's a cinch. I own several 45acp revolvers and really enjoy shooting them because they do use the clips.

Some Smith 45acp revolvers "Will Not" fire 45acps without MC's just fine. Lots of discussion years earlier about this......One of my 625's will only be 100% reliable with MC's. Seems Smith started cutting the chambers deeper in the later guns. the older 25-2's didn't have this problem.

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S&W Accumulator

Some Smith 45acp revolvers "Will Not" fire 45acps without MC's just fine. Lots of discussion years earlier about this......One of my 625's will only be 100% reliable with MC's. Seems Smith started cutting the chambers deeper in the later guns. The older 25-2's didn't have this problem.

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S&W Accumulator

I couldn't imagine shooting without emuploadfromtaptalk1450321098448.jpg

I'd forgotten this. Round about 1988 to 1989 when the firs 625s were selling there was talk at the range about S&W literature writing they'd changed from a headspacing shoulder in .45 ACP chambers to a tapered progression into the chamber throat. I don't doubt what you say but I have not spoken with any 625 owners that had your misfire problem. I guess you just have to try out any 625 without clips to know if it will be reliable.

Since we're chatting about other brands in this thread I can add that Taurus used thinner moon clips in their 5 round .45 ACP Trackers so .45 Auto Rim won't go in them.

Confirm the above posts about using ACP rounds w/o moon clips. My Model 22 of 1917 has one chamber in which an unsupported round sinks a smidge more deeply than the others, causing a light primer indentation/FTF. Use of the clips prevents this. My 625JM does not have this problem.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

They also make a .40 Pit Bull. I have 1, and it works well. Bob

RIMZ Poly Moon Clips work so well. I have metal ones, and a de-moon tool. Use the polys most of the time in my 625JM. Bob

Groo here
Given the low price of Ranch Products moon clips [both full and 1/3 moon]
and the modern tools to demoon and load clips .
I see this as a non-issue.
Also , moon clips make recovery of brass much easier.

+1 on .45 Auto Rim. Interestingly my M1917 shoots 4-5" groups at 15yards with .45 ACP and 2" or less groups at 15 yards with .45 Auto Rim. Theoretically both loadings are basic hardball loads.

The Ruger LCR 9mm = uses moon clips with a slot in the clip between each round.

One nice feature or this is you can load and unload the clips by hand -- don't need tools. I suppose there is a chance of bending the clip, but I haven't bent any yet.

I am sure they could build a .45 ACP with rimless extractor, they and others have done it for 9mm, and now Charter in .40 and .45.

I see two reasons why they don't.
1. Cost, they probably don't see enough sales to be worth designing and tooling up for a new extractor system. The 547 didn't last.
2. Speed, all the trick extractors I have seen require that you push the shells into the chambers past the spring loaded engagements. Whereas a clip just drops into place.

Advantages of the clip are
1. Speed, load the gun in one drop, unload with no risk of getting a rim under the extractor.
2. Packaging, carry six rounds in one lump and more importantly, pick up your empties six at a time. No such thing as a "lost brass match", not even the most hard nosed match director will demand you throw away your clips or unclip your empties and donate them to the club.

... I prefer the moon clips, am I odd?

I've owned 3 625s and have also used Ranch Products clips w/o any problems. I consider the clips a definite advantage in these revolvers.

I also have several 627/327s that use moon clips. Unfortunately use of the clips with the 8 rounds of 357 or 38 special is much more fussy. Apparently you need to match different thicknesses of clips with certain brands of cases. For carry I use a moon clip for the first cylinder loading and 8 round speedstrips for the reloads. For practice and competition I use 5 star speedloaders and loading blocks.

The original half-moon clips were flimsy and often bent. As a result, they often would impede cylinder rotation. Elmer Keith referred to the half moon/1917 revolver concept as smart emergency engineering, but not practical engineering. Still, not bad as a solution in the middle of a world war.

The moon clips do away with these problems. I also prefer those by Ranch Products.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Really? For GIs that were issued loaded half moons it was all in how they are protected while being carried. They could be bent inside the WW I canvas pouch that dangled from a dough boy's web belt if he sat on it or threw himself onto the ground. Unlike soldiers who were expected to cast away their clips with brass still in them, for match shooters bends mostly occur while filling or emptying the clips. I have shot along side many competitors who were frustrated by missfires caused by their bent full moon clips. As you probably know mainspring energy is expended flattening the clips. In the typical match revolver that will only reliably fire Federal primers to begin with there isn't enough hammer momentum left. I haven't used my half moons in years but quality half moons never gave me a problem. As far as I know GI clips were good quality but back when 19717s were dirt cheap junk half moons were sold to civilians.

Some body needs to throw mother's advise into this thread. In formal company polish your shoes and watch your language and at matches use your moon clips. In casual company you can say whats on your mind and don't need to bother with moons clips.

I use the full moon clips with my 25-2. Just like a speed loader only faster to load. No knobs to turn or push.

I have one of those convertible blackhawks, the .45acp empties fall out of the chamber's. Almost no need for the ejector. Loading those fat stubbie rounds is noticeably easier too.

My question to the OP is why do you want a .45 acp revolver if you don't like moon clips? Lots of good rimmed options to choose from.

k22fan: Hi. I did say half-moons were not a bad solution in the middle of a world war, didn't I? I guess the ones I had experience with were the junk clips you refer to. I only know half moons caused my buddy and me difficulties in two 25-2s, a 1915 and a converted Webley. I'm not going to back off on my personal experience. Happy holidays to you and yours!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103