This was not done officially. This is my own personal training group

This is what we used: Shooting the FBI Pistol Qualification Course | Rifleshooter.com



Passing to the FBI standard is 48 out of 60

Everything is from concealment and I wore it just how I do in real life, no photog vests

In one of the 3 yard stages requires 3 then hand swap 3 shots in 8 seconds.... so with the 5 shot revolvers, you lose a shot working with achieving 48 out of 59. Unless you are jerry and can do a reload

When I ran my KLCR 357 last month with the same hand loads I scored a 34 and missed the par times on 4 of the stages.

All short distance 3,5 and 7 yard stages.

I attribute this directly to the length of pull and reset on the LCR as compared to the J. I just work the short pull and reset faster regardless of weight difference.

I also missed the time on the reload at 7 yards.

I missed zero par times with the 442. I have also been training hard on my reloads to beat this time and I got a 4.01 second reload from concealment as compared to 7.41 with the LCR prior to me really working at it.

My ammo: 158gr LSWC loaded with 4.9gr of unique so they are +P -- oh and they are dirty check out my off hand and the revolver










My results:

Ruger KLCR: 34 out of 60 missed times on 4 stages
Smith 442: 48 out of 60 missed no times

and just to compare a bottom feeder:
Glock 26: 50 out of 60 missed no times

I'm really happy with my post hand surgery performance and love this 442

The new grips worked great!

Just thought I would share

Nice work and thank you for posting this good stuff---just confirms what I have always believed--that the 442 can save your bacon if called on.

I thought after my hand injury I was going to have to relearn with my weak hand. Haven't shot a match since July 2014. First training I did in over a year was a few months back. While I was rehabbing I couldn't hit anything with the LCR. Let alone hold it right. Hence the Glock 26. I'm slowly progressing but will never be the same. But at least I didn't lose my snubbies.

Excellent post, eb07.

You make a good point about trigger reset on LCRs.

I took my LCR 9mm out to the range and tried to shoot as fast as possible.

I was short stroking the trigger too much and it didn't reset and I pulled the trigger once and nothing happened. Pulled again, and nothing happened again.

It took a few seconds for me to get it reset properly and back into service. From then on it worked fine, but I was definitely babying it to be sure it reset.

Had that happened in a real situation, I might have been toast.

I also made it happen deliberately with my LCR 357, but it seems less prone to the problem for some reason.

Looking forward to getting my new (old) M49 on my license and probably will make it my most frequent carry gun because of this problem.

I forgot to ask---was your hand tired when you got done?? lol

Wait, you're doing real shootin' with your J frame? I thought they were just for pocket-totin' Good shooting man. My strong side thumb knuckle would be bloody and palm sore if I shot that with wooden boot grips. The CT LG-405 and polished cylinder latch on my 642 help a bit.
I also would occasionally short-stroke my LCR38 but never one of my J frames.

A little numbness here and there but surprisingly, did not tear it up bad




Just a small wear spot

I am sold on the 442/642 guns. I have read them condescendingly described as "beginner's guns" as though you need one of the pro models to be able to shoot it. The effectiveness is in the shooter, not the appliances on your gun.

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"Sacramento" Bruce Conklin

Ouch -- that looks painful.

Well done Mate, Back in the 80's i shot IPSC with a 5 shot 2in M36 and got some funny looks and comments!

This is a very informative and inspiring post. I think I need to work on something similar for next time I go to the range. Certainly more interesting than just punchin' paper and trying to impress myself with the occasional doubletap. Thanks.

I wonder what would happen if you ran the course with one of the 3" "FBI" revolvers from the 1980s? M-65 3" round butt with +P 158s anyone?
Geoff
Who is revolving more lately.

I was able to duplicate velocities of the FBI load with 5.5gr of unique (.1gr over modern book max)

When my 4" 19 gets back from Nelson Ford I'll do it. But it is a tack driver so in sure I'm going to do way better score wise.

Your trained in every type of fire arm and must qualify right?

Thank you for posting this. It was very informative.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Thanks for the link. I'll have to try it someday.

I only train with what I carry on a daily basis. The FBI qual is just one of many things I use as a baseline. Like Bill Wilsons 5x5x5 and Larry Vickers 10x10 or 5x5 and the Kansas POST qual to name a few.

Helps me gauge my performance and proficiency.

The FBI has really lowered their standards over the years. 50 yards was once a firing point.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Ephraim Zembalist Jr. Could shoot a perp from a 100 yds. Away while jumping over a fence.

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N.R.A. BENEFACTOR Member

Thanks for the stats about the three yard line and the FBI qual. Inspires me to take my 442 to the range and run that course a couple of times! The course is pretty much the same as the old Idaho POST course except Idaho shot 18rds at 25. Like the FBI better, seems to be more applicable to civilian confrontations. Thanks for posting!

Based upon years of actual shooting and confrontation data, that is not realistic. So why keep training with outdated methods?

Revolvers are "Old Man's Guns"! Yeah, right. Many of the GLOCK kids (and many new cops...) discount WHAT can be done with a good revolver (and the man behind it).

Good shooting. I carried a NP3'd 442 when I was on the job in metro Denver. She rode in a Rosen "Duncan's Ankle" rig on my left ankle and frequently came out when folks would walk up to the car when running radar, etc. They had no idea that they had a gun on them.

One thing I ALWAYS did was practice, practice and practice with her. Did I mention that I practiced shooting my J-Frame? We had a downstairs range in our sally port. When the blizzards hit, or it was slow we'd have a 0230 range session. I used an office chair situated perpendicular to the target and practiced several times emptying the piece into a target about 3 yards distant to simulate defending against a would-be patrol car ambush.

If you practice with them, the little J-Frame is downright accurate (and shootable). I like the way you shot...no vests, just what (and how...) you would carry them.

An added aside is that the J-Frame can be reloaded PDQ by the use of a JET speedloader. I routinely have my J-Frames' cylinders chamfered. The JET loader in the front pocket looks like a key fob. Think of them as a J-Frame version of the Safariland COMP III. They can be had at Brownells for about $25. How much is your life worth?

As of late, I've been taking our Master Bedroom's cordless phone to the range. A Range Officer asked WHY? I showed him: Having the phone to your ear (simulated 911 call), shoot a target one-handed (natural crook of the arm...NOT 'Gangsta' style...) and shoot. Hits on a paper plate-area at that range are what we're after.

Great Thread!

I've got some on order. When they get here, I'll see how it goes with my FBI configuration 3" Model 13 and a 158 gr +P FBI clone load.

My dept uses CCI Blazer 'clean fire' on the range. That stuff doesn't foul like the pics, but the unburnt powder bits that get EVERYWHERE are annoying!! Under the star, I the chambers, all over the forcing cone, bore & under the grips: yes,under the grips. Grrrrrr!!

Nice shooting, but where is the pic of your target? I also agree with the article, the course is redundant and not a very good test of markmanship.

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Support your Police, & NRA

It is an excellent drill if you don't cheat. You are doing it from full concealment with par times. All the paper punchers get so hung up on marksmanship. This focuses on the ability to draw and make shots accurately fast. I carry aiwb under a shirt. Not owb on my belt under a photog vest. My reload is on a Ted blocker clip half in my belt. Not in a carrier that is owb. The par times and draw is what makes it a challenge at short range. But of course people cheat by not running it like they conceal carry and get these perfect targets and have no issues making the times.


But of course it is redundant. Repeatability equals proficiency. That's why I train. Not just this drill. On the move. Stationary. One handed. String and weak handed. Force on force. Close range. Distance.

As for the target. Dunno where the photo is. Plenty of target photos in the article when I ran the Wilson 5x5x5 drills. Also a photo of my target when I ran it in my charter bulldog thread it was pretty similar to that.

You should start a thread or reply and share some of your non redundant marksmanship based training. Then we would have a constructive reply that everyone can benefit from. I'm always up to try new things or old things. Training is training.