Guys, I am fairly new to guns so I need help figuring out the issue. Is it the gun or the ammo?

I travel a lot so I bought the gun as a home defense weapon for my wife. Wanted a revolver that I could mount a light on. It is not intended as a range gun, but for my wife to use as home defense, so it needs to work.

In the first 40 rounds I had two rounds not go off. You could clearly see the indention on the cap was lighter than the ones that were firing. When reloaded and hit a second time they went off.

The ammo is Remington UMC Target 130 gr MC. This ammo is just to get her use to the gun. I thought I would let her shoot several hundred rounds of low cost ammo and then move her to Hornady Home Defense 357 mag rounds.

So could it be the ammo, or do I need to send the gun back to the factory? Just a gun rookie looking for some guidance.

Thanks,

Check the strain screw. The primer hits on the unfired rounds only appear lighter because without ignition, the case and primer are not forced back against the firing pin and breach.

Is that something I can do or do I need a gunsmith to check it? Any tips on where it is and how to check it?

Remove the screw in the center of the grip and slide the grip off. Then you'll see a screw in the face of the grip frame. Try tightening it. It should be all the way in for reliable ignition. Sometimes they work themselves out.

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Dave

Groo here
+1 Wee Hooker
After the screw I would look at the firing pin.
Cylinder and Slide has them that are cut to let the pin move
a little farther out .
Check with some Defense ammo, the stuff you shot is more range stuff.

Any factory Smith should fire any ammo you want to stuff in the chambers with 100% reliability, provided the ammo is reliable. There are several threads here that describe the same problem of new guns that will not fire. Try two or three different kinds of ammunition, and if you have further problems, call Smith and they will take it back and fix it in short order.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

Just as a visual aid and an addendum to post #2...



Not unusual for these to back-out over time and use. A drop of purple Loc-Tite will help insure that it doesn't happen again. Strain screw should be tightened all the way down.

NOTE: Picture is shown with the sideplate removed. It is not necessary to remove the sideplate just to tighten the strain screw.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

Great pictures! We have this happen now and again with the SS turned all the way in. Quick fix to get you goin until you can fix properly: punch out a fired primer, remove the anvil, turn the cup over the SS and reseat. This has never failed here. This is not a good idea if you do not know where the SS is. You will learn,no harm,no foul.

Thank you for the picture and the other comments. I think I can do that. I will also try some better ammo. I'll let you know how it is going!

Just an update. The strain screw was tight, so that wasn't the issue. I switched ammo to Blazer Brass 38 spcl. I've fired a couple of hundred rounds through it with the new ammo with no FTF. So, is that enough to know the gun is fine and it was the Federal ammo?
Thanks

I find that rather strange as the Federal primers are softer than the CCI primers that would be used in the Blazer ammo. Now that it seems to be running fine with the Blazer, go back and try the Fedral ammo again. Just curious.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

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NRA Benefactor Member

Absolutely not. Would you want to rely, or have your wife rely on a gun that was that finicky, and unreliable?

Did you buy it new? If so, send it back to S&W, and tell them their Performance Center, needs a performance review! They've been turning out some shoddy work randomly for several years now. Work that people pay extra money for. Hold them to the standards they claim they have.

If you bought it used, have it looked at by a competent gunsmith, and make it right, so your lives can depend on it, which is why you bought it.

No, i bought it new from a reputable local gun shop. Gun is less than a month old and has less than 300 total rounds through it. I bought a cheap hard case over the weekend that I can use to ship it back to the factory in. Is that what I should do or test it some more? I already have the shipping label to print from S&W. Just hate to be without the gun for a long time if it is the ammo and not the gun. The Federal ammo was not the good stuff, it is the cheap target ammo.

They shouldn't keep it too long. Especially a Performance Center gun, you should be entitled to faster turnaround. As I said, you paid a premium for it, so they should give you premium service. S&W's warranty is one of the best. They will make it right. Until then, it's not doing a lot of good to have it at home, if it's not reliable.

Please update us when you get it back.

I guess I will send it back. I paid extra for a Performance Center gun so my wife would have the best revolver made available to her if needed. Thanks and I will keep you updated.

This is a well documented problem with this revolver. It will fire fine on single action but light strike on double action. I sent mine back to the factory and they replaced the strain screw and firing pin at no charge and paid shipping both ways. It's been perfect since. It's a great revolver.

It seems to me that it was the federal ammo. Was it one lot of ammo? Did you have any other problems with any other ammo?

Since you switched ammo and did not have a problem, I doubt it is the gun. Switch again, 357 full loads. Try all kinds of stuff. If you don't have anymore problems, then chalk it up to federal problem.

Were you using full moon clips? The one I had was reliable with full moon clips only. A Performance Center gun should work every time regardless of the use of full moon clips and hard or soft primers. Send it back.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

If I understand correctly, you had two FTF in the first 40 rounds and now have a total of 240 rounds and no other failures? I think I'd try a few other brands of ammo, shoot another couple hundred rounds and if there are no more failures I'd call it good-to-go.

akc47: My students and I shoot thousands and thousands of .38 Special target ammo through several guns, all of which have lightened actions. Virtually never have a misfire with Federal American Eagle, PMC and some local reloaders.

There have been several threads here about the same problem. Since you already have the mailing label, send it back!

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

OK, in your very first post you stated the ammo giving difficulties was Remington UMC. Remington is NOT Federal ammunition, it's not even vaguely related with Federal. As someone who uses a lot of Remington UMC for the cases I can state with certainty that Remington primers are currently the "hardest" primer produced by a US Major manufacturer. In fact I've retuned my revolvers specifically so they will be reliable with Remington primers, which in my case required increasing the DA trigger weight from 8 to 9 lbs.

I also have a fair amount of Experience with the Cylinder & Slide Extended Travel firing pin for the modern revolvers and second that recommendation to install that particular firing pin in your 327. However, when doing this it is important to make sure the DA trigger pull has been reduced to below 10 lbs. in weight. Because if you install one of these firing pins in a revolver with a 12 lbs. DA trigger weight you will see the primers cracking and leaking gas. Basically you'll see the initial warning signs for the potential of a pierced primer.

Now, the pertanent question is will the Performance Center tune a revolver to a specific trigger weight and use a particular firing pin to insure reliable ignition. Four years ago my answer to this question would be absolutely not. However, they have recently gone from using the Strain Screw to lighten the trigger weight by installing it loose to using a Wolff or Power Custom Mainspring. So they have realised that past practices weren't working out and have started using aftermarket components to produce a revolver with a tuned trigger. So, it's possible that they would be willing to install the Cylinder & Slide firing pin. So, I would advise a telephone call and insisting on talking to someone with enough authority in the Performance Center to give a yes or no answer to this question.

PS; the reason that I prefer Remington cases for reloading is because they are the ONLY cases I've used that don't require the flash holes being drilled to keep stainless steel pins from jamming in the flash hole. Any other brand of case requires that I ream the flash holes to 0.082 inch to keep the pins from jamming and when you have to prep 500 or 1000 cases it's a royal PITA. good news this only has to be done once but whenever I need fresh brass I always look for a sale on UMC.

Thanks for all the help guys. Let me try to answer some of the questions above.

First, scooter is right, I made a mistake, the FTF were with Remington Target UMC ammo. Sorry I latter said Federal. I was shooting that in a SEMI-Auto and got confused.

Next, on moon-clips. I never thought of that making a difference. Both FTF occurred without moon clips. However most of the later test rounds with a different ammo were with moon clips. I know because I use moon clips at the range and don't use them shooting at my house. Both FTF occurred at the house. Very interesting.

Finally, on SA vs. DA. One FTF occurred in SA and one in DA. I know because I always shoot DA and my wife always shoots SA and we both had one FTF. Again, interesting and I never would have considered that.

Update: Since I had the shipping label I sent it back last week. Hopefully they will get it in fine working order. No excuse for a $1300 revolver not to fire every time SA or DA, with clips or w/o clips, etc. with any ammo in my non-expert opinion. I have a Ruger GP100 that has thousands of rounds through it over a 15 year period and I've never had a single FTF with any ammo. It cost 1/3 of what this S&W 327 cost. I will let you guys know how the repairs go. Again, thanks for all the help.

Almost 3 weeks, and no word yet other than an acknowledgement that they received it.

I called them every week, when mine went in, to get the "current" status. No harm in checking. They may, or may not, email a tracking# when it ships so if you call weekly you can get that if they say it's shipped.

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Waiting for the break of day

I just picked up a 327 TRR8 but have not shot it yet so I can't comment on it. Maybe just my luck but the last couple times I had something done by S&W must have been at the busiest time. One took over 6 months and the other over a year. Hope you have better luck.
BTW, I didn't degrease the insides yet but for a PC gun it sure has a rough heavy trigger.

I had the same experience with a 327 TRR8 PC about six years ago. I've owned several N-frame revolvers, so I thought I knew what to expect. I was really disappointed. The DA pull was one of the worse I've ever felt. Not just excessively heavy, but very gritty, and not consistent. The SA wasn't up to par either. After some extensive work, it was fine. But there's no excuse for S&W's PC Department turning out something like this, and charging a premium for it. Apparently they still are.

I will get into it when I get back from vacation. It's not really a tough or long job smoothing up the action but for a $1,200 PC gun I don't feel I should have to. Changing springs don't work anymore.

Another month and no gun yet. I did call and they said give it several more weeks. Guy on the phone said the note in the computer indicated they will replace the firing pin when they get to it.

Wow, that's sad. About five years ago, I bought a new 686 6", and the cylinder bolt was just a tad too short, to fully release the cylinder. I Contacted S&W, received an immediate RMA, with pre-paid shipping. It was returned to me, in perfect working order, in two weeks.

I hope you receive it soon. It's definitely worth waiting for! It's an awesome revolver, once it's right!

akc47: That stinks, I hope they get it done sooner for you!

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Each time a questions come up on light strikes I've been able to say all my guns have been good (so far) & haven't had to use the APEX F/P kit I bought several years ago, just in case, well...

I bought a new PC 325 Thunder Ranch last week & after a good look-over I loaded up some primer only cases using 45AR & 45ACP brass to test fire before going to the range. All the 45AR went fine with large/deep primer hits.

The 45ACP were chambered without moonclips, as a worse case senerio, & only (2) out of (5) fired the first time. The ones that did had deep impacts also but the ones that didn't had the smallest of a mark on them. So light it was almost no hit. Completely different.

Put the APEX F/P & spring in it & tried (10) more primed only 45ACP cases w/o moonclips (5 of which were from the failed group) & all shot fine, with big impact hits, from all chambers.

I can't say for absolute, but I think the factory FP spring may have been the cause because a few times, when I had it disassembled & the factory FP in, I wasn't able to fully push the FP in. It stopped well short of fully extended. Nonetheless, it' replaced now. - (In retrospect, I doubt the firing spring had anything to do with the problem.) -

In my 625 PC I mainly use 45AR brass but I've shot 100's of 45ACP, without moonclips just fine, in it, the same with my 325NG.

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Waiting for the break of day

I'm sure it's been mentioned here before, but fired brass has deeper impact marks because the primer firing pushes the primer out of the case and against the firing pin before it fully retracts, and then the bullet leaving the case exerts a force on the case and the primer, pushing both to the rear and reseating the primer. You can demonstrate this by firing a case with only a primer (no bullet / powder).

With some rounds lighting off and some not through the same gun, you wouldn't be able to note any meaningful difference in primer marks but for this phenomenon.

I've had primers fail to ignite on the first strike in various guns before & they leave a noticeable impact in the primer. What I described above was nothing like that. The mark was almost imperceptible, definitely not the same.

Anybody who has every fired a primer-only round in a revolver will know the primer backs out, but does not reset, because the cylinder (usually) will not open freely (sometimes very hard) & the primer will be protruding out of the pocket.

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Waiting for the break of day

Well, finally got the gun back. 2 1/2 months on a brand new gun for a warranty claim on a PC gun. Note inside said "replaced firing pin". Nothing else in the box. No "sorry for your trouble", no free hat, no $10 coupon from their store. Nothing. LOL
Haven't had time to shoot it yet but if it is really fixed I guess I'll be o.k. with it all. Just not much of a S&W fan after this. Shouldn't happen on a gun this expensive.
Thanks for all the help everyone.
Don't forget to vote next month!

Please let us know if the gun shoots properly. Good shooting!

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

Glad you got it back! Hopefully it's fixed now.

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Since I posted this I've bought a 327TRR8 & it had light strikes/FTF with it's .486" firing pin. (Previously I put the "new" pointed Apex F/P in the 325TR & it worked but with some very light strikes, no FTF. Put the "older" round nose Apex F/P in it & it worked great consistently with broad deep impacts.)

Just received the C&S extra length firing pins (CS0188) I ordered from MidwayUSA (since Apex wasn't helpful in answering the question why the old & new pins are different.) & they are .510" OAL & have the broad rounded nose. It worked great in the 327TRR8, no light strikes.

I also bought a factory S&W F/P from them, just for grins, & it measures .497" OAL with a broad round nose.

Sure wish S&W would go thru their parts bin & throw out all the .486" F/Ps & stop installing them in new guns.

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Waiting for the break of day

Went through the same with my TRR8.
Fixed it using Federal brass and primers in .025" moon clips.

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

It is strange, as this is not a new problem, and has been going on for several years! It was a common problem with most of the Night Guard series of revolvers as well.

The TRR8 was marketed as an ideal handgun for police/SWAT. One would think that S&W, especially the Performance Center would put only their best people on these revolvers, and each and every single one would go through a stringent quality control process. True, honest testing should have prevented any defective ones from leaving the factory. Read the review at the link below, to better understand where I'm coming from. Maybe Smith and Wesson's upper management should read it as well!

Reviews : Arsenal

Smith & Wesson 327 TRR8 Revolver

S&W's eight-shot Tactical Rail Revolver is perfect for SWAT use, no kidding.

Smith & Wesson 327 TRR8 Revolver - Article - POLICE Magazine

That was why I bought my first Apex F/P, back in 2012, but never had to use it on any of my Night Guards (396, 357, 325 & 329), or others revolvers.

I pulled the sideplate off of several of my other S&W revolvers the other day (adding reduced power rebound slide springs) & checked their F/Ps while in there. A couple had .486", .489" long F/Ps. Those guns have over a thousand rounds thru each & never had a misfire, or light strike, in them.

I guessed small differences in the gross headspace (between the cylinder face & breach plate) has something to do with it. However, when I was trying to figure out why the one Apex F/P worked in my 625PC, but not well in the 325TR, I measured the gross headspace & there was only .002" difference (same for my 627PC & 327TRR8), which didn't seem like enough to make a difference, but maybe it's a matter of clearances adding up against you.

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Waiting for the break of day